NHL W. Conference Finals: Red Wings defeat Blackhawks 4-1

[Cynosure]

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1341/kron.jpg

 

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1588/kron2.jpg

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The pic of his skates in the air is clearly post-contact.

 

At the time of contact, his skates were on the ice.

[Cynosure]

The pic of his skates in the air is clearly post-contact.

 

At the time of contact, his skates were on the ice.

 

After watching it 9 million times I agree it was a "clean" hit by the rulebook. However, Kronwall should know better... that was incredibly dangerous and I'm glad he got 5 for it but I don't think he should have.

 

That being said, I hope someone knocks him into next month in tomorrow's game.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The pic of his skates in the air is clearly post-contact.

 

At the time of contact, his skates were on the ice.

 

After watching it 9 million times I agree it was a "clean" hit by the rulebook. However, Kronwall should know better... that was incredibly dangerous and I'm glad he got 5 for it but I don't think he should have.

 

That being said, I hope someone knocks him into next month in tomorrow's game.

 

Well, the nice thing about the rulebook is that it's incredibly vague. If you wanted to, and the refs did, you could call that charging (which is written so vaguely that almost any hit could be called it), you could call it interference (until he touches the puck, he's not considered in possession, even though it's at his feet), and you could call it intent to injure.

[Cynosure]

The pic of his skates in the air is clearly post-contact.

 

At the time of contact, his skates were on the ice.

 

After watching it 9 million times I agree it was a "clean" hit by the rulebook. However, Kronwall should know better... that was incredibly dangerous and I'm glad he got 5 for it but I don't think he should have.

 

That being said, I hope someone knocks him into next month in tomorrow's game.

 

Well, the nice thing about the rulebook is that it's incredibly vague. If you wanted to, and the refs did, you could call that charging (which is written so vaguely that almost any hit could be called it), you could call it interference (until he touches the puck, he's not considered in possession, even though it's at his feet), and you could call it intent to injure.

 

Def. should have been charging... he didn't have even one of his brain cells focused on playing the puck... he was going after Havlat to LEVEL him (which he did). The hit was clean but I can easily see intent to injure as well.

 

Oh well, Havlat was alert and responsive after the game and didn't have a headache, was joking about it in the locker room.

[Soul]

Pic clearly shows the forearm thrown high. Intent was to injure, IMO

[Drew Doughty]

Pic clearly shows the forearm thrown high. Intent was to injure, IMO

 

most hits with the shoulder bring the elbow/forearm flying up after contact.

 

also, Kronwall should know better? Havlat should know not to ever put his head down when he's on the ice.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Q says he's "optimistic" Havlat can play tomorrow. But really, who knows, all coaches lie in the playoffs.

[Cynosure]

http://mikenhl.com/gifs/thatsracist.gif

[NewUserName]

The pic of his skates in the air is clearly post-contact.

 

At the time of contact, his skates were on the ice.

 

After watching it 9 million times I agree it was a "clean" hit by the rulebook. However, Kronwall should know better... that was incredibly dangerous and I'm glad he got 5 for it but I don't think he should have.

 

That being said, I hope someone knocks him into next month in tomorrow's game.

 

Well, the nice thing about the rulebook is that it's incredibly vague. If you wanted to, and the refs did, you could call that charging (which is written so vaguely that almost any hit could be called it), you could call it interference (until he touches the puck, he's not considered in possession, even though it's at his feet), and you could call it intent to injure.

 

Def. should have been charging... he didn't have even one of his brain cells focused on playing the puck... he was going after Havlat to LEVEL him (which he did). The hit was clean but I can easily see intent to injure as well.

 

Oh well, Havlat was alert and responsive after the game and didn't have a headache, was joking about it in the locker room.

 

if that was charging, then ben eager should be spending most of the game in the box. Again the only reason anyone is talking about it is because Havlat got knocked out. When Eager skated across the ice and led with his elbow in game 2...it got the Blackhawks hit of the game..was it legal? barely was it danerous? yes Difference between that and Kronwall? Red Wing player had his head up and was waiting for the hit. Havlat is to blame for him getting knocked out, not the hit.

[Cynosure]

OK, I'm back. Didn't skate today but feeling pretty good. I am going to do everything I can to play tomorrow...Coach knows i want to go.

[Gingerballs Lives]

http://mikenhl.com/gifs/thatsracist.gif

 

omg.

[cubswin2009]

I've watched that gif 10 times. I don't get it.

[Cynosure]

I've watched that gif 10 times. I don't get it.

 

The guy looks exactly like the Indian Head...

 

... and Gene Simmons...

[cubswin2009]

I've watched that gif 10 times. I don't get it.

 

The guy looks exactly like the Indian Head...

 

... and Gene Simmons...

Ah now I see it lol. I thought the Indian Head was covering up something.

[Cynosure]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

[NewUserName]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

 

What play did Campbell watch? Like I said before, if you have a problem with Kronwalls hit, you had better look at your own teammate Eager...who also has had hundreds of semi-dirty hits in this league

[Cynosure]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

 

What play did Campbell watch? Like I said before, if you have a problem with Kronwalls hit, you had better look at your own teammate Eager...who also has had hundreds of semi-dirty hits in this league

 

The irony for me was the fact that Campbell was the only one to cry about it... he did almost an identical hit on Umberger a couple years ago:

 

 

Which all of you have likely seen.

[NewUserName]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

 

What play did Campbell watch? Like I said before, if you have a problem with Kronwalls hit, you had better look at your own teammate Eager...who also has had hundreds of semi-dirty hits in this league

 

The irony for me was the fact that Campbell was the only one to cry about it... he did almost an identical hit on Umberger a couple years ago:

 

 

Which all of you have likely seen.

 

I was just trying to look that hit up...I couldnt remember who he did it too.

 

I do think the NHL needs to figure out how to clean up some of these hits. The problem is it becomes very subjective. Like I said somewhere else, reading the rules on charging and you can call almost every check charging. So really it has just become what the officials think is bad. Handing out penalties just because someone got hurt is terrible. That seems to be what determines penalties sometimes.

 

On a similar note, I think a double minor if a hi stick causes blood is the stupidest thing in all of sports. Again you are punishing the crime for the level of damage done not how bad or negligent the penalty really was.

[Cynosure]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

 

What play did Campbell watch? Like I said before, if you have a problem with Kronwalls hit, you had better look at your own teammate Eager...who also has had hundreds of semi-dirty hits in this league

 

The irony for me was the fact that Campbell was the only one to cry about it... he did almost an identical hit on Umberger a couple years ago:

 

 

Which all of you have likely seen.

 

I was just trying to look that hit up...I couldnt remember who he did it too.

 

I do think the NHL needs to figure out how to clean up some of these hits. The problem is it becomes very subjective. Like I said somewhere else, reading the rules on charging and you can call almost every check charging. So really it has just become what the officials think is bad. Handing out penalties just because someone got hurt is terrible. That seems to be what determines penalties sometimes.

 

On a similar note, I think a double minor if a hi stick causes blood is the stupidest thing in all of sports. Again you are punishing the crime for the level of damage done not how bad or negligent the penalty really was.

 

Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A "Charge" may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

 

1. A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.

2. When a major penalty is imposed under this Rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed, and an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100).

3. A minor, major or a major and a game misconduct shall be imposed on a player who charges a goalkeeper while the goalkeeper is within his goal crease.

 

(NOTE) A goalkeeper is NOT "fair game" just because he is outside the goal crease area. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case where an opposing player makes unnecessary contact with a goalkeeper. However, incidental contact, at the discretion of the Referee, will be permitted when the goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.

 

Although goalkeepers are provided with additional protection under Rule 78 -- Protection of the Goalkeeper, they are still subject to penalties for infractions of the rules that they commit in or out of the goal crease. Particular attention will be made by the Referees to goalkeepers that embellish the contact in an attempt to draw a penalty.

 

The NHL needs to make their penalty descriptions A LOT LESS VAGUE... I mean seriously, you're right... ANY CHECK could be called charging, what a joke.

[Drew Doughty]

I thought it was gutless all around," said Campbell, who is part of the NHL competition committee. "I thought he jumped. Marty didn't have the puck. His forearm came up high. He's done it hundreds of time in the League, and it seems like nothing ever happens. He could have easily come in and used his shoulder and hit him with the side, and it would have been fine. But instead he comes up and explodes with his fist and his forearms and jumps. I just don't understand it. We've talked about it, and eventually we've got to clamp down. These guys got to pay for it -- guys that are taking shots to the head. It's unacceptable and it's not like it's the first time it's happened with that guy. There's no need for it in this game.

 

[...]

 

Campbell was asked if Kronwall should watch his back in Game 4.

 

"I don't know," he said. "I'm not sure what will happen with him, but I'm sure there won't be one check not finished on him. He could be the greatest guy in the world off the ice, but every time he hits, he jumps in the air."

 

What play did Campbell watch? Like I said before, if you have a problem with Kronwalls hit, you had better look at your own teammate Eager...who also has had hundreds of semi-dirty hits in this league

 

The irony for me was the fact that Campbell was the only one to cry about it... he did almost an identical hit on Umberger a couple years ago:

 

 

Which all of you have likely seen.

 

I was just trying to look that hit up...I couldnt remember who he did it too.

 

I do think the NHL needs to figure out how to clean up some of these hits. The problem is it becomes very subjective. Like I said somewhere else, reading the rules on charging and you can call almost every check charging. So really it has just become what the officials think is bad. Handing out penalties just because someone got hurt is terrible. That seems to be what determines penalties sometimes.

 

On a similar note, I think a double minor if a hi stick causes blood is the stupidest thing in all of sports. Again you are punishing the crime for the level of damage done not how bad or negligent the penalty really was.

 

I agree with that. Punishing based on result is dumb. A minor clip high stick that cuts a lip gets a double minor but you could give a guy a pretty good whack the the helmet and end up with a 2 minute minor.

 

Also, those rules are definitely vauge: "skates or jumps into." That is vague. What defines "skating into" an opponent? Jumps is obvious, the other part isn't, and I've seen charging called sometimes where it made sense and seen other similar hits go uncalled without much deliberation from either team in any of the incidents. It's a really vague rule unless the guy jumps off the ice, and even then, it is absolutely a judgement call and can still be difficult to call correctly.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

"The way I felt things happened, the puck went off the wall and he went to pick it up. I stepped in and he never saw me come. He never touched the puck, but I felt like the puck was right there," Kronwall said Saturday.

 

Told that some of the Blackhawks, especially Campbell, thought it was a dirty play, Kronwall said, "I think I would have felt the same way if someone did that to one of my teammates. It's unfortunate he got hurt and that's how it is."

 

Asked if he hit Havlat in the head, Kronwall said: "Maybe that's why he got knocked out. I don't know."

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2009/news?id=4201646

[Cynosure]

I seriously hate Babcock's face.

[17 Seconds]

The irony for me was the fact that Campbell was the only one to cry about it... he did almost an identical hit on Umberger a couple years ago:

 

 

Which all of you have likely seen.

 

well, campbell was saying it was dirty because his arm came up...something brian didn't do on the umberger hit. he kept his shoulder down

[kujay]

I seriously hate Babcock's face.

 

I don't know when his comments were, yesterday I guess, but Babcock calling Q a liar is out of line. Of course he's going to defend his players. I didn't hear what the question asked of Babcock was, but he should know better than to attack Q for that.

 

Should be one hell of a game this afternoon.