Cubs/Brewers Postgame 4/10

[illiniguy]

After four games last season:

 

Geovany Soto - 2 for 12, 3 walks

Aramis Ramirez - 2 for 13, 3 walk

Alfonso Soriano - 1 for 17, 1 walk

 

Calm down you crazy bastards.

 

The problem is, fans live in the now. They don't look at the big picture, they just look at whats happening right now, and if something isn't working right now, they want it fixed. If we could all only calm down and look at the bigger picture, which part of it is...its been 4 games!!...we would all be better off. But since we don't, we see Lee slumping and we want to DFA him or something.

Lee's been bad for more than 4 games though. Lee's been bad since about month 3 last year. Lee is a real concern.

 

True, but Lou made the decision to start the year hitting 3rd, so I think he deserves the opportunity to prove that last year was just a prolonged slump and not a sign that he is declining as a player. And 4 games isn't enough time to determine that.

Lou's kinda proof that anybody can manage at a high level when there payroll is over 60 million more than the rest of the division. Well anyone not named Jim Leyland.

[17 Seconds]

He tried to call off outfielders on a flyball into left center.

 

the outfielder - soriano - got a bad jump on a routine fly ball. you're ripping a shortstop for not making a catch on a lazy fly ball to left field.

 

He tried to throw home when he was at double play depth on the last play of the game.

 

it was the only play he had. you're letting your hatred for theriot distort your view of the game. trying to turn two on that play would have been a terrible decision.

 

A decent shortstop turns that fairly easily, but even with the terrible position Theriot was in when he caught the ball, he still had a decent chance at 2. With his arm, he had no chance at Weeks. He made pretty much the best throw HE could have made and still didn't get him.

[Little Slide Rooter]

After four games last season:

 

Geovany Soto - 2 for 12, 3 walks

Aramis Ramirez - 2 for 13, 3 walk

Alfonso Soriano - 1 for 17, 1 walk

 

Calm down you crazy bastards.

 

Yeah, not to mention the bullpen probably looked worse then than now.

 

An excellent point. Woody blew his first save against the Brewers too.

 

That wasn't a blown save

 

Woody was usually pretty shaky with 1 run leads. With 2 or 3, he was lights out, but with a 1 run, he was pretty scary.

[illiniguy]

After four games last season:

 

Geovany Soto - 2 for 12, 3 walks

Aramis Ramirez - 2 for 13, 3 walk

Alfonso Soriano - 1 for 17, 1 walk

 

Calm down you crazy bastards.

 

The problem is, fans live in the now. They don't look at the big picture, they just look at whats happening right now, and if something isn't working right now, they want it fixed. If we could all only calm down and look at the bigger picture, which part of it is...its been 4 games!!...we would all be better off. But since we don't, we see Lee slumping and we want to DFA him or something.

Lee's been bad for more than 4 games though. Lee's been bad since about month 3 last year. Lee is a real concern.

 

And before that, he was looking like the DLee of old. Considering I read an article lately where he claimed to have been battling nagging injuries all through the second half of last year, I don't see a problem with taking a deep breath and acting rationally.

My problem is, of course he's going to say that. What's he gonna come out and say, "hey I'm done, but your paying me pretty well so I can't quit. It's a recession?" Really since '05 he has been pretty bleh. I know he was hurt for a lot of that time, but he isn't at the age where you suddenly improve either.

 

Edit: He was decent in '07

Edited April 10, 2009 by illiniguy

[TruffleShuffle]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

[XZero771679666304]

After four games last season:

 

Geovany Soto - 2 for 12, 3 walks

Aramis Ramirez - 2 for 13, 3 walk

Alfonso Soriano - 1 for 17, 1 walk

 

Calm down you crazy bastards.

 

Yeah, not to mention the bullpen probably looked worse then than now.

 

An excellent point. Woody blew his first save against the Brewers too.

 

That wasn't a blown save

 

No, be he was demonstrably worse that day than Gregg was today.

[Rob]

Before I foget, why is nobody questioning Lou using a defensive replacement for Fukudome when Soriano is by far the bigger defensive liability?

 

Soriano isn't a defensive liability.

 

The best move for the team is probably to pull Bradley and move Fukudome to right... if you absolutely feel the need to use a defensive replacement. I wouldn't.

 

I didnt understand the point to begin with. Is Gathright even a good enough outfielder to warrant the move 2 games in a row?

 

No, he's not. He's above average, but this is nowhere close to last season where we had Edmonds (bad CF), and Pie (amazing CF). The only reason to bring him in as a defensive replacement is to help alleviate some of the strain on our perpetual injury concerns in Bradley and Soriano... Fukudome should never be getting the hook for defense.

 

And Reed Johnson should never, ever be a defensive replacement for anybody other than Micah Hoffpaiur.

[illiniguy]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

I didn't either. The game wasn't lost there anyways. It was lost by Lou well before that point.

[UMFan83]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

 

I sorta agree. I don't think they'd be able to turn 2, but I do think that it was possible to turn the 2. There was no chance to get the runner at home. Lou put them in double play depth for a reason. Not so they could field it and throw him. If he wanted Ryan to throw home, he would have ordered the IF to play in.

[Rob]

There was about a 10% chance to get the runner at home. There was about similarly low chance to turn two. You can't pin this one on Theriot... 90% of the time the game is over when he picks it up there... no matter which play he tries to make.

[TruffleShuffle]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

 

I sorta agree. I don't think they'd be able to turn 2, but I do think that it was possible to turn the 2. There was no chance to get the runner at home. Lou put them in double play depth for a reason. Not so they could field it and throw him. If he wanted Ryan to throw home, he would have ordered the IF to play in.

 

right you put him in that depth so that braun can't knock an easy single through the drawn in infield, and he can try to turn two on a double play ball. problem is, braun didn't hit it hard and hit it toward the third base side. it wasn't a double play ball.

[XZero771679666304]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

 

I sorta agree. I don't think they'd be able to turn 2, but I do think that it was possible to turn the 2. There was no chance to get the runner at home. Lou put them in double play depth for a reason. Not so they could field it and throw him. If he wanted Ryan to throw home, he would have ordered the IF to play in.

 

I think part of Theriot's problem is he seems oblivious to his physical limitations. Weeks is very fast, and at DP depth, he just doesn't have arm, unless the ball is smoked. Braun has decent speed, but you have to try and turn it unless you have arm to make a solid peg to the plate.

 

He seems to have the same problem on the bases, trying to take a base he when doesn't have much of a chance.

Edited April 11, 2009 by XZero77

[David]

it's uncanny how many wild finishes/games we've had vs. the brewers (in either direction) since they moved to the NL.

 

the only other team where it's even close is the rockies

[TruffleShuffle]

theriot's throw was also slightly up the first base line, so there's a chance that a perfect throw gets him or at least allows hill to block home plate.

[XZero771679666304]

ok i'm going to stop arguing this because apparently i watched a different game. i didn't think the double play was at all an option there unless the guy who hit it fell down out of the box or ran like a fatass. since braun runs pretty well i didn't think there was a shot at two.

 

I sorta agree. I don't think they'd be able to turn 2, but I do think that it was possible to turn the 2. There was no chance to get the runner at home. Lou put them in double play depth for a reason. Not so they could field it and throw him. If he wanted Ryan to throw home, he would have ordered the IF to play in.

 

right you put him in that depth so that braun can't knock an easy single through the drawn in infield, and he can try to turn two on a double play ball. problem is, braun didn't hit it hard and hit it toward the third base side. it wasn't a double play ball.

 

A SS with good range turns that. A SS with a good arm hits Hill with a solid throw and not a one hop lob. Either way Theriot is a defensive liability there.

[David]

it'd be nice to have cedeno or anybody who could competently field SS in a defensive pinch

[XZero771679666304]

it'd be nice to have cedeno or anybody who could competently field SS in a defensive pinch

 

I was trying to avoid bringing Ronny into the discussion, but he makes that play either way it goes. Of course he doesn't add much offensively, and I doubt Lou pulls Ryan for him anyway, so it's really moot. But if we're talking hypothetically, having Cedeno in there saves the game.

[TruffleShuffle]

it'd be nice to have cedeno or anybody who could competently field SS in a defensive pinch

 

I was trying to avoid bringing Ronny into the discussion, but he makes that play either way it goes. Of course he doesn't add much offensively, and I doubt Lou pulls Ryan for him anyway, so it's really moot. But if we're talking hypothetically, having Cedeno in there saves the game.

 

wait you have a problem with theriot's decision making but you're pimping cedeno?

[UMFan83]

Kinda sad that Gregg was on the hill for both of the Cubs losses this year and during his other appearance, he gave up a run.

[SpongeWorthy]

If Theriot had any sort of range he wouldn't have been any position where he felt compelled to go home instead of turning two. The fact that he was hurtling deep in the hole as he gloved the ball that was steps to his right is pretty bad.

[Guest]

There was about a 10% chance to get the runner at home. There was about similarly low chance to turn two. You can't pin this one on Theriot... 90% of the time the game is over when he picks it up there... no matter which play he tries to make.

 

About the only worse spot that ball could have been hit with an infielder still getting it would have been to Fontenot's left. The Cubs either needed a great throw from Theriot to home or a great double play turn to keep the game alive.

[erik316wttn]

How did Harden look? I missed the entire game.

[Guest]

He tried to call off outfielders on a flyball into left center.

 

the outfielder - soriano - got a bad jump on a routine fly ball. you're ripping a shortstop for not making a catch on a lazy fly ball to left field.

 

No, I said what I said. I'm not upset at him for not catching it, in the game thread I said Soriano needed to get there. I'm saying it's stupid for him calling for it and potentially causing the other outfielders to not be able to get to it. It's a dumb decision on his part.

 

I'm not saying this for sure happened, but I wonder if Theriot called for it because nobody else was and he figured he could get it and wasn't sure if Soriano or Fukudome were close enough to get there.

 

We know Fukudome wasn't going to get there so that leaves Soriano, and I didn't see him wave anybody off.

[BCVM22]

Kinda sad that Gregg was on the hill for both of the Cubs losses this year and during his other appearance, he gave up a run.

 

Stat-wise, he only gave up the hit on Tuesday night in Houston - the winning run was charged to Cotts.

[Guest]

How did Harden look? I missed the entire game.

 

Excellent. He was missing bats and was hitting 92-93 routinely with the fastball and was able to dial it up to 96-97 when needed.