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Re: Ramirez wins Hank Aaron awrd.

Butterscup1679666578

By Butterscup1679666578,
in Chicago Cubs Talk

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imb MVP

imb

Old-Timey Member
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His numbers in close and late are too outstanding to be a fluke. .423 I think, compared to something like .289.

 

kind of the definition of a fluke

Jimmy Ballgame Prep Ball

Jimmy Ballgame

Verified Member
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Posted

Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
it was really nice of pujols and chipper jones and chase utley and hanley ramirez and lance berkman and ryan ludwick and adam dunn and matt holliday and probably several other guys to turn down the award.
Jimmy Ballgame Prep Ball

Jimmy Ballgame

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Uh I dunno... Manny? He's Mr. Postseason.

Rob Knoxville Smokies

Rob

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Uh I dunno... Manny? He's Mr. Postseason.

 

Manny's career postseason line is .286/.399/.550, which is very good... but it's not as good as his career line of .314/.411/.593.

Little Slide Rooter MVP

Little Slide Rooter

Old-Timey Member
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I really dont think his numbers are a fluke at all. Hed be agreat #3 hitter in front of a solid #4, or a great #4 behind a solid #3, hint hint Hendry.

 

Did he really deserve the Aaron award though? No big surprise that a Cub and a Red Sock both won a top award voted on by the fans though, deserved or otherwise.

fromthestretch First Round Pick

fromthestretch

Old-Timey Member
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Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Yep. They pretty much prove that over the course of a career, a player's postseason numbers don't deviate too much from his regular season numbers. There really aren't a lot of players whose postseason numbers are significantly better than their regular season numbers. Manny was already given as an example of this. His postseason numbers are very good, but they're a notch below his regular season stats.

 

Others that have been noted as "clutch":

 

Reggie Jackson was slightly better in the postseason:

RS: .262/.356/.490

PS: .278/.358/.527

 

Derek Jeter is pretty much right at his career stats:

RS: .316/.387/.458

PS: .309/.377/.469

 

David Ortiz' stats don't show much variation between the two:

RS: .287/.382/.554/.936

PS: .293/.401/.543/.944

 

Of course, if you look hard enough, you'll find people who have a small sample size of postseason at-bats where their rate stats are much better than their regular season stats. However, it's doubtful they would have kept up that pace if given enough at-bats in the postseason. I mean, do you really believe that Sandberg would have continued to hit .385/.457/.641 in the postseason if given the same number of at-bats as Jeter?

hardcorecubfan Myrtle Beach Pelicans

hardcorecubfan

Verified Member
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Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

 

 

Who? Please tell me because it wasn't anyone on the Cubs during the playoffs

KingCubsFan ACL Cubs

KingCubsFan

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Manny has consistently been better with RISP throughout his career

Tyrant First Round Pick

Tyrant

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Manny has consistently been better with RISP throughout his career

 

Not appreciably so (about 55 points of OPS). That's almost all from him having better OBP with runners in scoring position, which could probably be attributed to pitchers being more careful with him when there are guys on base.

fromthestretch First Round Pick

fromthestretch

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Manny has consistently been better with RISP throughout his career

 

And in "Late & Close" situations, he's been worse.

KingCubsFan ACL Cubs

KingCubsFan

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Manny has consistently been better with RISP throughout his career

 

Not appreciably so (about 55 points of OPS). That's almost all from him having better OBP with runners in scoring position, which could probably be attributed to pitchers being more careful with him when there are guys on base.

Where are you looking? Here's what I found:

Bases Empty: .299/.386/.568/.953

Runners On: .330/.436/.620/1.056

RISP: .330/.454/.607/1.061

RISP w/2 outs: .315/.463/.605/1.068

Bases Loaded: .326/.378/.692/1.071

fromthestretch First Round Pick

fromthestretch

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Personally I don't think clutch hitting is a fluke. Some guys are just able to focus better and choose their pitches better when the game is on the line. Sure, sometimes it's a fluke, but I don't believe that's always the case.

 

I understand the school of thought that it's just luck, and there's no difference what inning it is or what situation arises. However, I think after certain players hit well in the clutch season after season, and sometimes for an entire career, it's hard to say that it's all luck. Things tend to prove themself over time.

 

Who hits well in the clutch season after season.

Manny has consistently been better with RISP throughout his career

 

Not appreciably so (about 55 points of OPS). That's almost all from him having better OBP with runners in scoring position, which could probably be attributed to pitchers being more careful with him when there are guys on base.

Where are you looking? Here's what I found:

Bases Empty: .299/.386/.568/.953

Runners On: .330/.436/.620/1.056

RISP: .330/.454/.607/1.061

RISP w/2 outs: .315/.463/.605/1.068

Bases Loaded: .326/.378/.692/1.071

 

Close & Late: .276/.410/.491/.901

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
BR leverage stats.

 

High: 103 tOPS+

Medium: 102 tOPS+

Low: 96 tOPS+

How is that measured? What's included in that? I'm not familiar with that statistic.

 

It uses WPA(win probability added, the basis for those graphs you'll see linked around here a lot.) tOPS+ is his OPS+ relative to his career OPS+

 

WPA as a stat definitely has its flaws, but as a means of identifying leveraged situations, it's pretty good.

KingCubsFan ACL Cubs

KingCubsFan

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
BR leverage stats.

 

High: 103 tOPS+

Medium: 102 tOPS+

Low: 96 tOPS+

How is that measured? What's included in that? I'm not familiar with that statistic.

 

It uses WPA(win probability added, the basis for those graphs you'll see linked around here a lot.) tOPS+ is his OPS+ relative to his career OPS+

 

WPA as a stat definitely has its flaws, but as a means of identifying leveraged situations, it's pretty good.

So he's better in high leverage situations, but not by a lot (?). How does that compare to people like Pujols?

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