If MVP really means MVP, Soriano should win it.

[TruffleShuffle]

according to BP, soriano has been worth roughly 6 wins this year. project that out to the end of the year and he's maybe worth 8. a below-average LF - let's say we were playing murton until he was traded and now are playing hoffpauir/ward/derosa in LF - i'd guess it's maybe worth 3-4 wins. so soriano is worth probably 5 wins over a lousy LF. the cubs are on pace to win 99 games this year. take soriano out and replace him with a mediocre player, they have 94 wins.

 

the record with and without soriano is filled with white noise, which was well explained by umfan. it's absurd to think that the cubs would be a .500 team without soriano.

[TruffleShuffle]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

 

Ok, back to the team numbers. 50-20 with, 26-28 without. Explain this.

 

Not a small sample size.

[Abe Frohman]

Geovany Soto.

Ryan Dempster.

Aramis Ramirez.

 

All better MVP cadidates than Alfonso Soriano. Not to take ANYTHING away from Soriano's solid contributions to the team.

[TruffleShuffle]

](*,)

[UMFan83]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

 

Ok, back to the team numbers. 50-20 with, 26-28 without. Explain this.

 

Not a small sample size.

 

Do you have any other statistic to use or do you plan on just ignoring every single argument that every other poster is giving you?

 

The Cubs were 6-8 without Zambrano and 70-40 with him. I think Zambrano should be the MVP.

Edited August 19, 2008 by UMFan83

[SweetZombieJesus]

Obviously they won't look to project out numbers when voting for the MVP, but these are stupid numbers to put up from the leadoff spot.

 

Yeah, lou is a idiot and a soriano is selfish hack.

[CubInOK]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

 

Ok, back to the team numbers. 50-20 with, 26-28 without. Explain this.

 

Not a small sample size.

I'll do it for Truffle.

 

according to BP, soriano has been worth roughly 6 wins this year. project that out to the end of the year and he's maybe worth 8. a below-average LF - let's say we were playing murton until he was traded and now are playing hoffpauir/ward/derosa in LF - i'd guess it's maybe worth 3-4 wins. so soriano is worth probably 5 wins over a lousy LF. the cubs are on pace to win 99 games this year. take soriano out and replace him with a mediocre player, they have 94 wins.

 

the record with and without soriano is filled with white noise, which was well explained by umfan. it's absurd to think that the cubs would be a .500 team without soriano.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

 

Ok, back to the team numbers. 50-20 with, 26-28 without. Explain this.

 

Not a small sample size.

 

Do you have any other statistic to use or do you plan on just ignoring every single argument that every other poster is giving you?

 

The Cubs were 6-8 without Zambrano and 70-40 with him. I think Zambrano should be the team MVP.

 

I've used plenty. Perhaps you should go back and read them. And NEVER throw a pitcher into the mix when they go to the bump 30 times a year. There's a thing called the Cy Young for that.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

Obviously they won't look to project out numbers when voting for the MVP, but these are stupid numbers to put up from the leadoff spot.

 

Yeah, lou is a idiot and a soriano is selfish hack.

 

And clearly not an MVP candidate. :rotfl:

 

I'd love to hear other MVP candidates from this board.

[UMFan83]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

[SweetZombieJesus]

Add to that the numbers he is putting up personally and there is no doubt he should get strong consideration. If the numbers were projected over 162 games, he'd shatter anything ever put up from the leadoff spot.

 

that's only because nobody hits a power hitter in the leadoff spot. if babe ruth's teams had let him hit leadoff, i'm pretty sure that soriano would have no hope of ever shattering every leadoff record.

 

and, it should be reiterated that a leadoff hitter is guaranteed to hit leadoff a grand total of once every game.

 

Ok, back to the team numbers. 50-20 with, 26-28 without. Explain this.

 

Not a small sample size.

 

Do you have any other statistic to use or do you plan on just ignoring every single argument that every other poster is giving you?

 

The Cubs were 6-8 without Zambrano and 70-40 with him. I think Zambrano should be the team MVP.

 

I've used plenty. Perhaps you should go back and read them. And NEVER throw a pitcher into the mix when they go to the bump 30 times a year. There's a thing called the Cy Young for that.

 

No, and no

[ChiCubsfan0502]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

 

Outstanding logic :roll:

 

Comparing a pitcher to a position player. LOL.

Edited August 19, 2008 by ChiCubsfan0502

[kjfoster 1553]

Obviously they won't look to project out numbers when voting for the MVP, but these are stupid numbers to put up from the leadoff spot.

 

Yeah, lou is a idiot and a soriano is selfish hack.

 

?

[UMFan83]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

 

Outstanding logic :roll:

 

Comparing a pitcher to a position player. LOL.

 

48-15 with him, 28-33 without him. Nuff said.

[ChiCubsfan0502]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

 

Outstanding logic :roll:

 

Comparing a pitcher to a position player. LOL.

 

48-15 with him, 28-33 without him. Nuff said.

 

Yup. And he really sets the tone for the offense in those games. Like I said, outstanding logic. :thumbsup:

[UMFan83]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

 

Outstanding logic :roll:

 

Comparing a pitcher to a position player. LOL.

 

48-15 with him, 28-33 without him. Nuff said.

 

Yup. And he really sets the tone for the offense in those games. Like I said, outstanding logic. :thumbsup:

 

Who cares what he does to help the team, they are obviously 48-15 with him and a horrible 28-33 without him. Are you trying to tell me that there is more to a player's value than W/L record in games they appear in?

[ChiCubsfan0502]

I change my pick, the Cubs are 48-15 when Marmol pitches in a game, and 28-33 when he doesn't. He should be baseball's MVP.

 

Outstanding logic :roll:

 

Comparing a pitcher to a position player. LOL.

 

48-15 with him, 28-33 without him. Nuff said.

 

Yup. And he really sets the tone for the offense in those games. Like I said, outstanding logic. :thumbsup:

 

Who cares what he does to help the team, they are obviously 48-15 with him and a horrible 28-33 without him. Are you trying to tell me that there is more to a player's value than W/L record in games they appear in?

 

I put his personal stats up as well. Of course, you choose to ignore them, so carry on with Marmol for MVP!! Wooo hooo!

[ChiCubsfan0502]

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/sports/1095923,6_2_NA07_MLB1_S1.article

 

This article is from 12 days ago.

 

"When he gets hot, it's pretty unbelievable," DeRosa said of his teammate. "When most guys get hot, they get a couple knocks. He hits balls in the seats on a daily basis."

 

And that speaks only to the value of his sheer production.

 

Fact is, even when Soriano isn't hitting - and it certainly can look bad when he isn't - his value is impressive. At least it is to this team, the way it's built and the way Lou Piniella manages it. And Soriano's recent extended absence might finally be showing measurable evidence of it.

 

"His presence in the lineup means a lot to us in different ways," Piniella said. "First of all, his offensive presence alone, but other things. We can rest our catcher a little more. We can rotate our outfielders a little more. We build from the one spot in the lineup, so I can go 1-3-4 and do whatever we want in the other spots."

 

How does he help the catcher? Soriano is the top power threat with a team-leading 21 homers in his abbreviated season. And catcher Geovany Soto is one of the next-best threats, which means Piniella leaned harder on Soto to play more often when Soriano was out to help balance the lineup.

 

Piniella also has enough lineup depth this year to put productive hitters in the 7 and 8 spots (along with some decent-hitting pitchers), which provides Soriano more RBI chances in the leadoff spot. That directly led to Soriano's third-inning homer Wednesday being worth three runs after the 7-8-9 hitters all reached base.

 

Soriano said the praise is great, "but I cannot see what I bring to the team because I know who I am. What I bring is mostly a happiness or excitement to the game. When they see me, how hard I work, then that maybe gives motivation to them, too. Because that's what I come with every day. The same energy to try to win."

 

Bottom line: The Cubs are 44-22 when he plays and one game over .500 when he doesn't.

 

Now where did that ballot go?

Edited August 19, 2008 by ChiCubsfan0502

[ISUCubsFan]

Player A: .348/.459/.617/.366 EqA/69.5 VORP in 495 PA's

Player B: .293/.340/.561/.294 EqA/24.8 VORP in 350 PA's

 

Player A leads in pretty much every counting stat if that matters.

 

Can you explain how player B adds more value than player A?

[chuckywang]

Maybe the Padres go 0-162 with Adrian Gonzalez. We'll never know because he never helped his MVP cause by getting injured and therefore letting voters see what a difference maker he is.

 

 

I guess my point is this: You're basically saying Soriano should win MVP because we can compare/contrast the results with and without him. Not every MVP candidate gets this "benefit". Should those MVP candidates be punished for that?

Edited August 19, 2008 by chuckywang

[Soul]

Player A: .348/.459/.617/.366 EqA/69.5 VORP in 495 PA's

Player B: .293/.340/.561/.294 EqA/24.8 VORP in 350 PA's

 

Player A leads in pretty much every counting stat if that matters.

 

Can you explain how player B adds more value than player A?

Oh God not another one of these.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

You can't just eyeball a stat and say "not a small sample size."

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

You can't just eyeball a stat and say "not a small sample size."

 

Oh, and let me add, leadoff isn't a position.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Answer yes or no, please.

 

If the Cubs played the entire season without Soriano, would they finish 81-81?

 

85 win team at best.

How many games do the Cardinals win without Pujols?

6?