Ron Santo's Hall of Fame candidacy

[TruffleShuffle]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1409616.html

 

So Santo was one of the top few players in his league for about six years, the second-best third baseman in the game's history upon his retirement, and put up numbers at a defensive position that would have made him a borderline Hall of Fame candidate at an offensive one. That is a Hall of Famer.

 

The omission of Ron Santo is the most egregious mistake ever made by the Baseball Writers Association of America. They should have inducted Santo 20 years ago, and that they overlooked him throughout his 15 years on the ballot is a shame.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1514118.html

 

1. He was a better hitter than a number of Hall of Fame third basemen, including Pie Traynor, Jimmy Collins and Brooks Robinson.

 

2. He was a fine defensive player who won five Gold Gloves.

 

I'll admit, I used to think that Santo's career length worked against him, but it turns out that he's No. 8 on the all-time list for games played at third base. So you've got a good defensive player who ranks among the best at his position in terms of hitting and career length. Doesn't that sound like a Hall of Famer to you? I honestly don't have any idea why he didn't draw more support from the BBWAA's Hall of Fame voters -- come to think of it, that would be an interesting research project -- but Santo's absence from the Hall certainly doesn't make any sense, and it's time for that state of affairs to end.

 

...Ron Santo was a better player than most of the third basemen in the Hall of Fame, and this is true despite the fact that fewer third basemen have been elected to the Hall of Fame than players at any other position.

 

It's not Ron Santo against Willie Mays. It is Ron Santo against Pete Browning, or Babe Herman, or Bob Meusel, or Jake Daubert, or somebody else whose only real advantage over Ron Santo is that he played so long ago that his flaws have been forgotten.

 

The reality is, Willie Mays never was and never can be the standard for the Hall of Fame. In the 1940s, many players were elected to the Hall of Fame who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo, let alone nowhere near as good as Willie Mays. Players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1950s, players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1960s, players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1970s (lots of them), players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1980s, and players who were nowhere near as good as Ron Santo were elected to the Hall of Fame in the 1990s. It is preposterous to argue that the Hall of Fame standard is Ted Williams, after six decades of honoring players like Tommy McCarthy, Rabbit Maranville, Elmer Flick, Dave Bancroft, George Kell and Tony Lazzeri. The Ted Williams/Bob Gibson/Honus Wagner standard for Hall of Fame slection has never existed anywhere except in the imaginations of people who don't know anything about the subject.

 

Look, certain things just do not happen. Rivers do not run uphill, iron does not become gold, time does not go backward, whores do not become virgins, pigs do not give birth to lions, supermodels do not marry auto mechanics, and politicians do not forget about the next election. There is no alchemy by which the Hall of Fame may become what it has never been. Ron Santo towers far above the real standard of the Hall of Fame.

 

The Cub Reporter's argument of Santo's HoF credentials

 

 

I think that almost everyone on this board believes that Santo is a Hall of Famer. But what can us Cub fans do to support his candidacy? Is there a way to send materials that will reach the Veterans' Committee? All I know is that I want to make the five hour drive to Cooperstown next summer, to wear my Ron Santo jersey as I watch him being enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I posted this in today's game thread.

 

Right now the HOF lists 13 players that have been inducted primarily as 3B. Three of those were inducted from the Negro Leagues.

 

If Santo were added to the other ten, there would be eleven third basemen in the HOF. So, how would he rank among these other greats? In other words, I wanted to answer the question if Santo would lower the quality of player in the HOF.

 

Here's what I came up with.

 

Santo's 342 homeruns would rank him third among HOF thirdbasemen behind only 500 HR club members Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews.

 

Santo's 1331 RBI would rank him fourth among the current HOF third sackers.

 

His .277 BA might be one of the knocks on him as six of the ten HOF third basemen have hit over 300. However, there still would be four HOF thirdbasemen with lower batting averages.

 

Santo has five Gold Gloves. Only two HOF thirdbasemen (Schmidt and Robinson) have more, and six have none.

 

Santo's 954 Fielding % ranks him at sixth would be middle of the pack.

 

Santo scored 1138 runs which places him in the middle of the pack at fifth.

 

His 362 OBP would rank him sixth and his 464 SLG would rank him fourth.

 

Finally, his OPS+ of 125 would rank him fifth and his 324 Win Shares would be fifth on the list as well.

 

There's not a single category that would rank him in the lower third. Most metrics place him squarely in the middle of the pack among HOF thirdbasemen.

 

I don't think there should be a doubt he belongs.

 

And then here's a few more comments by James.

 

uring his career Ron Santo was a nine-time All-Star. He finished in the top ten in MVP voting four times. He had the fifth highest RBI total of all major league players during the 1960s (topped only by Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Harmon Killebrew and Frank Robinson). During that period no player in the National League drew more walks. 3 He won five consecutive Gold Gloves at third base, and led NL third basemen in putouts, assists, chances and double plays in many seasons. He was among the league leaders in on base percentage and slugging percentage throughout the 1960s; he finished in the top 10 in both categories in his league in every season from 1964 through 1967. He hit more home runs in his career than any third baseman currently in the Hall of Fame other than Mike Schmidt and Eddie Mathews.

 

To me it is clear and unequivocal that Santo is a Hall of Famer. ... Putting guys like George Kell, Freddy Lindstrom, and Tony Lazzeri in the Hall of Fame while you leave out Ron Santo is like putting Dalmatians, Palominos, and Siamese in the zoo while you let the lions roam the streets.

[Magnetic Curses]

here's an article i wrote for chicagocubsblog.net last year.

 

http://www.chicagocubsblog.net/2007/03/page/3/

 

The Brooks Factor: A Case for Ron Santo

Posted March 5, 2007 - Permalink | Trackback | 0 Comments

 

 

Last tuesday, the Hall of Fame Veteran’s Committee voted to keep Ron Santo out of the Hall for one reason or another. Of course, they have their motivations, whether it’s because Ronnie had a habit of clicking his heels at third base during the ‘69 season (bad juju if you ask me) or because he’s seen as a shameless self-promoter among baseball royalty (as if Joe Morgan is some sort of model of humility), he’s not getting in for at least another 2 years.

 

You may notice that among my examples, I failed to mention a reason including anything that went on during the actual games that he played in. If the Veteran’s Committee wants to keep Santo out for extra-curricular purposes, than so be it, but they shouldn’t pretend that it has anything to do with Ronnie’s play at third base over the course of his career. If they voted based solely on performance, he should have been a mortal lock on his first ballot, as his contemporary Brooks Robinson was. In fact, Santo posted far superior offensive statistics to Robinson and was at least comparable defensively. While Robinson was winning the AL MVP in 1964, Santo was having a better year on his way to finishing a distant 8th in the NL race. Let’s take a look at those numbers, shall we? (I’m using the conventional statistics of BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/OPS+ here)

 

Robinson: .317/.368/.521/.889/145

 

Santo: .313/.398/.564/.962/164

 

While the batting averages are similar, Santo is significantly better in the other categories. Santo was more patient and put the ball in play more effectively, taking 334 total bases to Robinson’s 319.

 

As good as Robinson was on defense that season, Santo may have been better. Here, I’m looking at fielding percentage as compared to league fielding percentage and range factor as compared to league range factor (FP/LFP/RF/LRF).

 

Robinson: .972/.955/2.94/2.76

 

Santo: .963/.941/3.25/2.60

 

Wow. Not much difference there, and Santo appears to have the edge in RF, although he naturally had more opportunities based on the amount of strikeouts Orioles pitchers recorded. Both players were All-Stars and won their respective Gold Gloves.

 

Some might say that 1964 was a fluke year for Santo, that it’s not reflective of his actual career production, to which I’d say that there is more proof to back up my case. The ensuing 2 years were the continuance of offensive peaks for both players, although Santo’s peak would last longer. In 1965, Robinson would finish 3rd in the AL MVP balloting, while Santo would finish 18th in the NL. In 1966, Robinson would again be a finalist, finishing 2nd, while Santo finished 12th. Let’s take a look at exactly what kind of travesty that was:

 

Robinson:

 

1965: .297/.351/.445/.796/124

 

1966: .269/.333/.444/.777/125

 

Santo:

 

1965: .285/.378/.510/.888/146

 

1966: .312/.412/.538/.950/161

 

As you can see, both players were probably at their best, offensively, from 1964-1966. And if you tell me that there is any comparison here then you’re crazy. Santo’s numbers tower over Robinson’s, and they would continue to do so until Ronnie’s final season in 1974. What’s more is that it’s not even close, Santo would go on to have another great year in 1967 while Robinson would have a typical one, posting very ordinary numbers.

 

That’s not to say that Robinson was totally inferior to Ronnie, he obviously had career longevity (although you can hardly hold that against Santo, what with the diabetes and all) as well as postseason appearances on his side. Unfortunately, these may very well be the deciding factors in why Robinson was elected nearly unanimously on the first ballot and why Santo received a paltry 3%. In case you were wondering, the career numbers are as follows:

 

Robinson: .267/.322/.401/.723/104-merely average numbers, not those of a first ballot hall of famer, to be sure.

 

Santo: .277/.362/.464/.826/125-the numbers stand by and for themselves.

 

Now we may see why Robinson has campaigned for Ronnie in the past, perhaps he’s a bit embarassed to be in so quickly while Ron has sat at the fence, looking in on the players that he used to dominate both at the plate and in the field. Maybe it’s Robinson’s sense of guilt that has compelled him to speak on behalf of Santo, that would make sense.

 

But, in the end, Brooks just probably wants to see his friend in the Hall for personal reasons, and ”personal reasons” are what the Veteran’s Committee is all about, right?

[OleMissCub]

This was all posted in the History thread, but it may as well be posted here:

 

Player          AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS+  AB    R     H    HR   RBI   WARP3  FLD%

Mike Schmidt   .267 .380 .527  147  8352  1506  2234  548  1595  157.3  .955
Eddie Mathews  .271 .376 .509  143  8537  1509  2315  512  1453  145.0  .956
Ron Santo      .277 .362 .464  125  8143  1138  2254  342  1331  119.9  .954
George Brett   .305 .369 .487  135  10349 1583  3154  317  1595  135.7  .951
Bro. Robinson  .267 .322 .401  104  10654 1232  2848  268  1357  114.9  .971
Wade Boggs     .328 .415 .443  130  9180  1513  3010  118  1014  150.6  .962
Chipper Jones  .310 .406  .549 145  7210  1354  2233  404  1353  102.1  .955

 

 

http://nationalsportsreview.com/2005/03 ... -worthy-2/

 

Using TPR, Santo was the best player in baseball from 1964-1968, with a TPR of about 32.5. That is an average of about 6.5 a season and there were only three other seasons in this span that reached 6.5 or more. Santo went a little above 7 a couple of times, which no one else did. Aaron is probably second in this time period with about 22. Santo was in the top 5 in the NL each of these years and first three times. In WS, Santo had 164. Only Allen (170), Mays (169) and Aaron (167) had more in MLB over the years 1964-68. Santo was 6th in WS (with 249) for the whole decade despite not playing in 1960 and getting off to a somewhat slow start in 1961-3. The top six in the decade were

 

Aaron 340

Mays 337

Robinson 307

Clemente 262

Killebrew 257

Santo 249

 

James says that 15 WS is an average season, 20 is an all-star season and 30 is an MVP type season. Santo averaged 32.8 over this period.

 

Pete Palmer has Santo as the 4th best player in TPR in all of MLB from 1961-72:

 

1- Mays (84.6)

2 - Aaron (81.3)

3 - Robinson (64.3)

4 - Santo (45.3)

 

Some quotes from This Old Cub:

 

"Well, Ron was a player who could do everything, he drove in runs, he hit home runs...he dominated his position for a good decade and a half...and you can take Ron's statistics and put 'em up against any other third baseman in the Hall of Fame. He's the first guy I voted for....if anyone deserves the Hall of Fame it's Ron." - Brooks Robinson

 

"I always enjoyed playing against him, and he's still underrated in that he did things day in and day out, and year in and year out...and I will say this, he will get my vote!" - Joe Morgan

 

"Ron belongs in the Hall of Fame with all the rest of us. Ya know, I played against him all of his career and most of my career, and, Ron Santo was as good a third baseman as we've ever had in the National League." - Willie McCovey

 

"He was truly, truly, a fine competitor, he was the kind of player that any manager would have loved to have had playing for him...I'll tell you one thing..he belongs in the Hall of Fame...I voted for him!" - Tommy Lasorda.

 

"He was a true competitor, and you talk about Ronnie, and you are talking about a guy who plays everyday for you, and I think he should be in the Hall of Fame because I myself know what kind of player he was. I think he should be in." - Willie Mays

 

"When you look at Ron Santo's stats, it's almost unconscionable to me that he has not yet been called upon to be in baseball's Hall of Fame....It's hard for me to understand...and I agree with the new process to make a little more difficult to get in, but I cannot imagine anyone that is more deserving than Ron Santo." - Marty Brennaman

 

"Ron was pretty much the whole package at third base. You know, OK..the greatest fielding third baseman ever was Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt hit over 500 HR's, George Brett flirted with .400....so it's hard for anybody to be compared with them, um, especially since they played around the same time Ron did, either early or late....but outside of that you start looking around at third basde and the name Ron Santo comes up...seems to rise up pretty high to me." - Chris Berman

 

"I've said this for fifteen years, that Ron Santo is the best player not in the Hall of Fame." - Peter Gammons

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/52548689.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/81371465.jpg

 

Some gifs that I created; check out his range.

 

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1695/ronnieswing2ue0.gif........ http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ronthrow.gif........http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ronpick3.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rond.gif........http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9922/santofield3pb9.gif

[shnsajax]

it kind of makes you wonder who doesn't vote for him?

[OleMissCub]

It really makes you wonder how someone who, at the time he retired, ranked second ALL TIME in most offensive categories among third basemen, only got 15 VOTES his first year eligible.

 

15 VOTES!?! It's almost as if he was being colluded against or something.

[Derwood]

It really makes you wonder how someone who, at the time he retired, ranked second ALL TIME in most offensive categories among third basemen, only got 15 VOTES his first year eligible.

 

15 VOTES!?! It's almost as if he was being colluded against or something.

 

almost? i think it's pretty clear he was, and has been. There is a segment of the voting body who just doesn't like the guy

[OleMissCub]

It really makes you wonder how someone who, at the time he retired, ranked second ALL TIME in most offensive categories among third basemen, only got 15 VOTES his first year eligible.

 

15 VOTES!?! It's almost as if he was being colluded against or something.

 

almost? i think it's pretty clear he was, and has been. There is a segment of the voting body who just doesn't like the guy

 

*cough*new york media*cough*

[Derwood]

It really makes you wonder how someone who, at the time he retired, ranked second ALL TIME in most offensive categories among third basemen, only got 15 VOTES his first year eligible.

 

15 VOTES!?! It's almost as if he was being colluded against or something.

 

almost? i think it's pretty clear he was, and has been. There is a segment of the voting body who just doesn't like the guy

 

*cough*new york media*cough*

 

if only it were that simple. the new york media don't hold enough votes to blacklikst him all alone

[Soul]

It really makes you wonder how someone who, at the time he retired, ranked second ALL TIME in most offensive categories among third basemen, only got 15 VOTES his first year eligible.

 

15 VOTES!?! It's almost as if he was being colluded against or something.

 

almost? i think it's pretty clear he was, and has been. There is a segment of the voting body who just doesn't like the guy

 

*cough*new york media*cough*

 

if only it were that simple. the new york media don't hold enough votes to blacklikst him all alone

 

No, but their hatred for him is clear and they most certainly talk to/influence other writers around the country. Obviously its enough to keep him out.

[TruffleShuffle]

There's not a single category that would rank him in the lower third. Most metrics place him squarely in the middle of the pack among HOF thirdbasemen.

 

and he played in a pitcher's era, too.

 

sulley, i understand what you are getting at with brooks robinson, but i don't think there is a need to disparage robinson or suggest that his support of santo is out of guilt. he was a marvelous fielder; BP has him at 286 FRAR, or basically saving one run for every 10 games he played. that's really awesome. they have ron santo at 60 FRAR in 2243 games; he was hurt by a couple of poor years late in his career, but the stat does have him well above average for several years in a row. in fact, he has a WARP3 of 10 or above in six consecutive years of his career; that's a peak comparable to that of A-Rod and better than george brett's peak string of productivity. that's not to say that those guys are hall of famers, but rather that santo is clearly a hall of famer.

[bukie]

Using TPR, Santo was the best player in baseball from 1964-1968, with a TPR of about 32.5.

 

This seems amazing to me, considering this time period was also during the prime years of Willie Mays, Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron.

[NewUserName]

I always thought that one of the things that kind of go against Santo is that there are already 3 HOFers from the Cub teams of his era. Which is quite a few for a team that never won anything. I think he deserves to be in, but I think that there are probably some voters who think this way

[Sammy Sofa]

It's basically a crime he's not in. If he dies before he's inducted...man, that's just evil.

 

Anyon have any more clips and pics of Ron in his playing days? Google doesn't have much. I'd love to find a great quality shot of him doing the heel click for my desktop.

[Chief_Cardinal]

It truely is a shame that he isn't in the Hall. i just don't understand it myself looking at his numbers....unfortunetly I'm not old enough to have gotten to see him play myself.

 

I just wonder if the fact that he publically makes it known that he wants in so badly has actually come to hurt his chances? Not saying that is right..because obviously it isn't...I just wonder!

 

I do however feel that if by some chance he passes on before he gets in.....His love for the Cubs, along with his numbers (obviously) would get him in shortly after. But it certainly shouldn't go down that way.

[inari]

That's the thing. He will be a Hall of Famer eventually, and there's no reason that it shouldn't be before he dies. Let's be honest, he probably doesn't have long.

[OleMissCub]

 

Anyon have any more clips and pics of Ron in his playing days? Google doesn't have much. I'd love to find a great quality shot of him doing the heel click for my desktop.

 

 

I've searched far and wide for good Santo photos in the past and there just aren't that many on the web and many of the ones that are out there are copyrighted....

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron2.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron3.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron4.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron5.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron6.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron7.jpghttp://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ron8.jpg

 

From the 1972 All-Star game:

 

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1171/santoallzv4.jpg

 

Frank Robinson attempting a triple:

 

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9303/santofranknv0.jpg

Edited August 4, 2008 by OleMissCub

[Guest]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

[NCCubFan]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

Or me. I get the dreaded red x.

[OleMissCub]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

Or me. I get the dreaded red x.

 

Think I fixed it.

[NCCubFan]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

Or me. I get the dreaded red x.

 

Think I fixed it.

Yep; now I see them.

[OleMissCub]

Some of the possible negatives against Santo:

 

http://bruce.mlblogs.com/archives/2007/02/the_curious_cas.html

 

Based on research and interviews, several factors may be at work here. Let’s consider some of the theories as to why Santo has been turned down so many times, first by the Baseball Writers and then by the Hall of Famers themselves:

 

*Santo never played in the postseason, either the Championship Series or the World Series. The lack of postseason exposure can certainly hurt a player’s chances at Cooperstown, but it should not be an overriding factor in keeping someone out of the Hall of Fame. It’s certainly a weak argument, given others who have taken up membership at the Hall. Let’s consider the cases of three of Santo’s longtime teammates in Chicago: Ernie Banks, Billy Williams, and Ferguson Jenkins. None of those Cub legends ever made a postseason appearance for Chicago, yet all made their ways into Cooperstown with relative ease. Of the three, only Williams appeared in postseason play for other teams, and that amounted to three losses with the A’s in 1975. If Banks, Williams, and Jenkins are in despite a lack of World Series experience, why not Santo?

 

*Santo lacked a "signature" to his career. Now we’re getting warm. For Robinson, it was his highlight reel performance in the 1970 World Series. For Schmidt, it was his home runs. For Wade Boggs, it was both batting championships and 3,000 hits. Santo, for all of his excellence across the board, did not stand out in any one area. His career batting average of .277 has been held against him by some writers who don’t seem to grasp Sabermetric statistics and principles. Santo’s ability to coax 90 to 95 walks a year, coupled with nearly 1-to-1 ratio of walks to strikeouts, haven’t struck a chord with old-fashioned voters. Bottom line—Santo’s career has lacked the sexiness that the baseball writers seem to favor in their elections.

 

*Santo was a showboat. This might be the biggest factor working against Santo. During the 1969 season, Santo clicked his heels after a number of Cubs victories, annoying many of his opponents, in particular the rival Mets. In an era where players were expected to conduct themselves in businesslike fashion, that was simply not accepted. In some ways, Santo has never really lived down those infamous "heel clicks"—especially after a tired Cubs team collapsed during the stretch run.

 

*Santo’s strong personality rubbed even his teammates the wrong way. Like the showboating, Santo’s personality conflicts may be hurting his cause. After inexperienced center fielder Don Young committed two costly errors in a July 1969 loss to the Mets, Santo criticized his teammate through the media. According to some Cubs observers, Santo’s outburst hurt Young’s development. Santo also had two severe personality clashes with teammates, one famous, the other obscure. He sparred with Rico Carty during his brief Cubs tenure in 1973, and then clashed with **** Allen after being traded to the cross-town White Sox. Santo criticized Allen for being lazy; Allen felt that Santo was egotistical and presumptuous, leading to a stormy season on the south side in 1974.

 

Unfortunately, none of these listed factors strike me as truly legitimate reasons to keep Santo out of Cooperstown. They are relatively small in context, and, in some cases, downright petty and irrelevant. The arguments in Santo’s favor—power, walks, defense, consistency—are much more powerful. Hopefully, the Veterans Committee will see it the same way and do what should have been done nearly 30 years ago.

[Guest]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

Or me. I get the dreaded red x.

 

Think I fixed it.

 

Fantastic.

[OleMissCub]

OMC, the first 8 pics didn't work for me. :?

Or me. I get the dreaded red x.

 

Think I fixed it.

 

Fantastic.

 

No problem. I like the picture of him and Aaron the most, from one of Santo's NINE all-star appearances.

[third eye]

This was all posted in the History thread, but it may as well be posted here:

 

Player          AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS+  AB    R     H    HR   RBI   WARP3  FLD%

Mike Schmidt   .267 .380 .527  147  8352  1506  2234  548  1595  157.3  .955
Eddie Mathews  .271 .376 .509  143  8537  1509  2315  512  1453  145.0  .956
Ron Santo      .277 .362 .464  125  8143  1138  2254  342  1331  119.9  .954
George Brett   .305 .369 .487  135  10349 1583  3154  317  1595  135.7  .951
Bro. Robinson  .267 .322 .401  104  10654 1232  2848  268  1357  114.9  .971
Wade Boggs     .328 .415 .443  130  9180  1513  3010  118  1014  150.6  .962
Chipper Jones  .310 .406  .549 145  7210  1354  2233  404  1353  102.1  .955

 

 

http://nationalsportsreview.com/2005/03 ... -worthy-2/

 

Using TPR, Santo was the best player in baseball from 1964-1968, with a TPR of about 32.5. That is an average of about 6.5 a season and there were only three other seasons in this span that reached 6.5 or more. Santo went a little above 7 a couple of times, which no one else did. Aaron is probably second in this time period with about 22. Santo was in the top 5 in the NL each of these years and first three times. In WS, Santo had 164. Only Allen (170), Mays (169) and Aaron (167) had more in MLB over the years 1964-68. Santo was 6th in WS (with 249) for the whole decade despite not playing in 1960 and getting off to a somewhat slow start in 1961-3. The top six in the decade were

 

Aaron 340

Mays 337

Robinson 307

Clemente 262

Killebrew 257

Santo 249

 

James says that 15 WS is an average season, 20 is an all-star season and 30 is an MVP type season. Santo averaged 32.8 over this period.

 

Pete Palmer has Santo as the 4th best player in TPR in all of MLB from 1961-72:

 

1- Mays (84.6)

2 - Aaron (81.3)

3 - Robinson (64.3)

4 - Santo (45.3)

 

Some quotes from This Old Cub:

 

"Well, Ron was a player who could do everything, he drove in runs, he hit home runs...he dominated his position for a good decade and a half...and you can take Ron's statistics and put 'em up against any other third baseman in the Hall of Fame. He's the first guy I voted for....if anyone deserves the Hall of Fame it's Ron." - Brooks Robinson

 

"I always enjoyed playing against him, and he's still underrated in that he did things day in and day out, and year in and year out...and I will say this, he will get my vote!" - Joe Morgan

 

"Ron belongs in the Hall of Fame with all the rest of us. Ya know, I played against him all of his career and most of my career, and, Ron Santo was as good a third baseman as we've ever had in the National League." - Willie McCovey

 

"He was truly, truly, a fine competitor, he was the kind of player that any manager would have loved to have had playing for him...I'll tell you one thing..he belongs in the Hall of Fame...I voted for him!" - Tommy Lasorda.

 

"He was a true competitor, and you talk about Ronnie, and you are talking about a guy who plays everyday for you, and I think he should be in the Hall of Fame because I myself know what kind of player he was. I think he should be in." - Willie Mays

 

"When you look at Ron Santo's stats, it's almost unconscionable to me that he has not yet been called upon to be in baseball's Hall of Fame....It's hard for me to understand...and I agree with the new process to make a little more difficult to get in, but I cannot imagine anyone that is more deserving than Ron Santo." - Marty Brennaman

 

"Ron was pretty much the whole package at third base. You know, OK..the greatest fielding third baseman ever was Brooks Robinson, Mike Schmidt hit over 500 HR's, George Brett flirted with .400....so it's hard for anybody to be compared with them, um, especially since they played around the same time Ron did, either early or late....but outside of that you start looking around at third basde and the name Ron Santo comes up...seems to rise up pretty high to me." - Chris Berman

 

"I've said this for fifteen years, that Ron Santo is the best player not in the Hall of Fame." - Peter Gammons

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/52548689.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/81371465.jpg

 

Some gifs that I created; check out his range.

 

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1695/ronnieswing2ue0.gif........ http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ronthrow.gif........http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ronpick3.gif

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/rond.gif........http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9922/santofield3pb9.gif

 

 

Holy crap, I didn't realize he had such a cannon for an arm. Thanks for the gifs!