Baseball History Thread

[OleMissCub]

Lou Piniella: 1969 Rookie of the Year

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin1.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin3.jpg

 

Neat set of photos: Lou collides with Red Sox catcher Carlton Fisk and then the two get in a fight. In the second photo, Sandy Alomar and Yaz try and pull the two apart.

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pin8.jpg

[bhogg]

lou with the pilots

 

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4423&d=1133073818

[OleMissCub]

Awesome pic Bhogg!

[bhogg]

I swear I've seen one with lou wearing a baby blue pilot uni.

[bhogg]

I throw some random junk out there.

 

 

Pic of Ryno from 1981 (or so the photo says)

 

http://woolis.com/images/Vintage/81SandbergWeb.jpg

 

 

Teddy Ballgame making a comeback (1994)

 

http://woolis.com/images/Vintage/TEDWa.jpg

 

 

Ryno in People Magazine -- may 1990

 

http://storage.people.com/jpgs/19900509/19900509-750-83.jpg

 

 

Early 80s Expos --- Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, ????, Tim Raines, ????

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3098/2324083776_4fe6650c2d_o.jpg

 

 

 

Dawson's 1987 season was the first year I really got into stats. In my 10 year old mind, the Hawk hit a homer almost every day. I even remember asking my Dad if Dawson had a chance at Maris' record. Kids say the darnedest things!

 

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/bb_AAHX030_8x10~Andre-Dawson-Posters.jpg

 

 

I love the Baby / Powder Blue uni's of the 80's. However, it was the '41 Cubs that first rolled out the blue uni's. I can't find any pics of Cub players in the blue unis, however.

 

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.org/dressed_to_the_nines/images/nl_1941_chicago.gif

 

 

Lee Arthur Smith in baby blue

 

http://images.bleedcubbieblue.com/images/admin/leesmith.jpg

 

 

One of my all time favorite players --- George Brett

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2035/2385980289_1cb7792601.jpg?v=0

 

 

 

This guy was a distant second in my book (behind Ryno) when I was growing up:

 

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/417PWk8df3L._AA280_.jpg

 

 

 

You just don't see guys like this anymore:

 

http://llamabutchers.mu.nu/tekulve.jpg

 

 

If not for cocaine. . .. .

 

http://cdn.faniq.com/images/photos/photo_large/62/34362-26.jpg

 

 

http://z.hubpages.com/u/20811_f260.jpg

 

 

 

I'm a child of the 80s. That's when I fell in love with baseball.

[rocket]

i don't know why exactly, but i love the 80's expos uniforms.

 

and did every team that's in a city that starts with "c" have that wishbone c logo at some point? it's like the green bay/georgia "g" logo that's passed around in football.

[OleMissCub]

Some really random Ted Williams pictures.

 

Here is Ted with Jimmie Foxx in 1939:

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50783&stc=1&d=1220095696

 

 

August 24, 1940. Tigers leading Bosox 11-1, Ted comes in to pitch the 8th inning. He gives up a single but then throws out the runner at second, force out when the next batter bunts. Ninth inning gives up two singles then strikes out Rudy York on three pitches. Earlier York had 2 singles, one double, one HR and 5 RBI's.

 

Two innings pitched, one earned run, one walk and one strikeout.

 

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50784&stc=1&d=1220097336

[treebird]

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50783&stc=1&d=1220095696

 

i know we've done it before, but now seems like a good time to rehash that conversation about what would happen if you put old-timey ballplayers in a time machine and made them play today.

[OleMissCub]

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50783&stc=1&d=1220095696

 

i know we've done it before, but now seems like a good time to rehash that conversation about what would happen if you put old-timey ballplayers in a time machine and made them play today.

 

go ahead

[OleMissCub]

Robin Roberts, one of the more underrated pitchers in baseball history.

 

From Bill James' Abstract, which has Roberts as the 16th greatest pitcher of all-time:

 

"As athletes go, Roberts can safely be called one of the most complex. IN conversation, he is at least two IQ notches above most of his compatriots, yet he admits that his intellectual interests are confined mostly to television viewing when he is home and western movies when he is on the road. - Hugh Brown, Sports Magazine, August 1956."

 

Robin Roberts threw about as hard as Bob Feller or Walter Johnson or Bob Gibson, possibly as hard. Because he didn't strike out huge numbers of batters, a lot of people don't realize this.

 

The Cy Young Award began in 1956. The best pitchers in the National League from 1950-1955, according to the Win Shares system, were:

 

1950 - Robin Roberts

1951 - Sale Maglie

1952 - Robin Roberts

1953 - Robin Roberts

1954 - Robin Roberts

1955 - Robin Roberts

 

The Cy Young Award began, in other words, just as Roberts reign as the best pitcher in baseball was ending. This brings up a question: if the Cy Young Award has tarted a few years earlier than it did, and if there had been an award for each league, would Roberts now be remembered as a legendary pitcher who dominated his era?

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/robin5.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/robin1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/pitchrobin.jpg

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http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/robin4.jpg

[OleMissCub]

Willie Mays

 

162 game avg over 22 seasons: .302/.384/.557, 156 OPS+, 36 HR, 28 doubles, 8 triples, 103 RBI, 112 RBI, 18 SB

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie5.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie2-1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie4.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie22.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie1-1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie11.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie18.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie14.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie13.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie3-1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie7.jpg

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http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie12.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie17.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie16.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie20.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie19.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie21.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie6.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/willie9.jpg

 

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/2/5/f_willieswingm_f204a21.gif

 

Game footage of Mays I put together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYi6LI4cTT4

 

note at the end when Campy and Jackie Robinson go crazy over Mays' inside the parker. That contact would have gotten them suspended today.

[OleMissCub]

Ernie Banks: 1958 & 1959 National League MVP

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie19.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie18.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie6.jpg

 

with Buck O'Neill:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie11.jpg

 

with wife and second MVP trophy:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie12.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie17.jpg

 

with Eddie Mathews and Del Crandell:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie3.jpg

 

with his father:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie9.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie4.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie15.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie13.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie14.jpg

 

I think is a tremendous photo and one of my favs I've posted:

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/ernie16.jpg

[OleMissCub]

How many HOFers are in this great candid shot of the National League team from the 1977 All-Star game:

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/2723172861_86d2846fd1_o.jpg

[bhogg]

10

[OleMissCub]

Back in the old days, Newspapers would have cartoons of interesting things that happened in the previous day's game. This one is from May 13, 1912 in The New York Times, the day when Cobb ran into the stands.

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/cobbpunch.jpg

[OleMissCub]

Jimmie Foxx aka Beast: MVP '32, '33, & '38

 

162 Game Avg: .325/.428/.609, 163 OPS+, 37 HR, 32 doubles, 9 triples, 134 RBI, 122 Runs, 102 BB

 

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim5.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim6.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim9.jpg

 

After hitting a home run in the 1931 World Series:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim1.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim2.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim3.jpg

 

With an elder Ty Cobb and Frank "Home Run" Baker:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim4.jpg

 

With his great rival Lou Gehrig:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim7.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim8.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim11.jpg

 

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim12.jpg

 

With Teddy Ballgame:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh153/OleMissCub17/jim13.jpg

 

Some video footage of Foxx:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodcwqwhTMI

[Guest]

He looks like Val Kilmer in the third picture.

[OleMissCub]

Came across this in Bill James' Abstract:

 

In 1934 the San Francisco Seals tried to sell Joe DiMaggio to the Cubs. The Cubs made a deal for him, but DiMaggio hurt his leg, and the Cubs backed out. "Take DiMaggio on trial," the Seals' manager said. "Try him for two months. If it doesn't work out, we'll undo the deal." The Cubs still refused.

 

This part of the story is well known. Less well known is the postscript. In 1938, the Cubs sent an unknown scout to the coast to check out Dominic [DiMaggio]. "We couldn't use him," reported the scout. "He just hits singles..."

 

How typical of the Cubs to pass up one legendary player and another very good player.

[OleMissCub]

A couple of things from the "Old Ballplayers Never Die" section of Bill James' Abstract:

 

Bill Joyce, as quoted in the 1916 Spalding Base Ball Guide. Joyce was a third baseman and manager in the 1890's.

 

"Base ball today is not what it should be. The players do not try to learn all the fine points of the game as in the days of old, but simply try to get by. They content themselves if they get a couple of hits every day or play an errorless game. The first thing they do each morning is to get the papers and look at the hit and error columns. If they don't see them, some sportswriter gets a terrific panning, of which he never hears.

 

"When I was playing ball, there was not a move made on the field that did not cause every one of the opposing team to mention something about it. All were trying to figure why it had been done and to watch and see what the result would be. That same move could never be pulled again without every one of our bench knowing just what was going to happen.

 

"I feel sure that the same conditions do not prevail today. The boys go out to the plate, take a slam at the ball, pray that they'll get a hit, and let it go at that. They are not fighting as in the days of old. Who ever heard of a gang of ball players after losing going into the clubhouse singing at the top of their voices? That's what happens every day after the games at the present time.

 

"In my days, the players went into the clubhouse after a losing game with murder in their hearts. They would have thrown out any guy on his neck if they had even suspected him of intentions of singing. In my days the man who was responsible for having lost a game was told in a man's way by a lot of men what a rotten ball player he really was. It makes me weep to think of the men of the old days who played the game and the boys of today. It's positively a shame, and they are getting big money for it, too."

 

 

The 1924 Spalding Guide reported that Joe McGinnity, the Iron Man of twenty years earlier was of the opinion that "the pitchers of the present time are not as good as they were in other days...McGinnity calls attention to the faults of the present-day pitchers and is depressed by the fact that so few of them possess a good curve or try to acquire one. He thinks this is due to the fact that so many pitchers 'got by' in the past with a straight delivery because they pretended to have a spitball, or some other method of pitching that was out of the ordinary."

 

Hooks Wiltse, pitching star of Honus Wagner's era, was interviewed in the Sporting News in 1937. He lamented "the paucity of real major league talent" in baseball, and listed five reasons for it:

 

1. Softball was cutting into the game.

2. Colleges weren't developing as much good talent as they once had.

3. The attentions of college athletes was being diverted by spring football practice, lacrosse and track.

4. Too many younger boys were caddying, and then getting interested in golf.

5. There weren't as many sandlot diamonds as there used to be.

 

"Some of the young players today are as good as int he old days," said Hooks. "But there aren't enough of 'em. The boys don't take the game as seriously as we used to. I remember in my day we ate, slept, and lived baseball. Swing music and the automobile have changed the temperament of youth."

 

Wilbur Cooper, star pitcher of the 1920's, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in 1953 that there were more top players in his day than in the 1950's. "The majors haven't fully recovered from World War II," he explained. "In fact, they're still being hit by war with so many youngsters being called because of the Korean situation."

 

Observing the 1978 World Series, Joe Sewell offered the opinion that only two members of the '78 Yankees would have been able to make the Yankee team in 1932. And he thought those two, Thurman Munson and Ron Guidry, would both have been in the bullpen.

[OleMissCub]

Couple of different Hall of Fame group shots:

 

July 23, 1989....Cool Papa Bell is in this one!

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50520&d=1219780517

 

August 1, 1993.... I can't believe some of those guys were still alive. Buck Leonard??

 

http://baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50536&d=1219807081

[OleMissCub]

My choices for best players and pitchers of each decade:

 

1900's: Honus Wagner & Christy Mathewson

1910's: Ty Cobb & Walter Johnson

1920's: Babe Ruth & Dazzy Vance

1930's: Jimmie Foxx & Lefty Grove

1940's: Ted Williams & Hal Newhouser

1950's: Mickey Mantle & Robin Roberts

1960's: Hank Aaron & Sandy Koufax

1970's: Joe Morgan & Jim Palmer

1980's: Mike Schmidt & Roger Clemens

1990's: Barry Bonds & Greg Maddux

2000's: Alex Rodriguez & Pedro Martinez*

 

The pitcher for the 2000's was very hard to pick because you had two guys that were dominant in the first half of the decade, Pedro and Big Unit, but have pretty much done nothing since. If you go with consistency so far in the 2000's, you'd have to look at pitcher's like Oswalt and Hudson.

 

Are y'alls lists different? Any changes you'd make?

[rocket]

in the 1st group shot, i noticed how old joe sewell was. i never heard of him, so i looked up his numbers on baseball-reference, and holy crap something really sticks out.

 

in 1925, in 608 at bats, he struck out 4 times. and that wasn't an anomaly. in his 162 game averages, he strikes out 10 times in 607 at bats.

 

but that's not the crazy part. he wasn't some free-swinging hacker, he actually drew a good number of walks, averaging 72 a season. in his last season he drew 71 walks and struck out 4 times. his isoD for his career is .079.

 

not surprisingly, he's #1 on the career list of at-bats per strikeout by a HUGE margin. sewell had 62.56 at bats per strikeout, and the guy in second place, lloyd waner, had 44.92 at bats per strikeout.

[sneakypower]

what the h

 

114 K in 7132 AB; thats what, 2 months worth of K for Mark Reynolds spead out for 14 seasons.

 

but impressive as that is, i think that really speaks a lot to the kind of stuff pitchers had in those days.

 

yadier molina - 163 k in 1720 ab (9.4%), 98 iso

bengie molina - 365 in 3865 ab (9.4%), 135 iso

juan pierre - 308 k in 5117 ab (6%), 70 iso

 

joe sewell - 1.6 K%, 101 iso

 

there's just nothing comparable to that right now. juan pierre registers as the 188th best K rate in history, and nellie fox is the only guy within the top 20 who played in games past the early-1950s, retiring in '65. this is one of many reasons i'm convinced pitchers didnt have nearly the movement on breaking balls we're seeing today. really the only other explanation would be umpires having far stricter strike zones on pitchers, uniformly.

 

i also like sewell's 3 for 19 in steals for 1927

[OleMissCub]

this is one of many reasons i'm convinced pitchers didnt have nearly the movement on breaking balls we're seeing today. really the only other explanation would be umpires having far stricter strike zones on pitchers, uniformly.

 

Several thoughts on this.

 

1) Pitching was weak in the 1920's due to the art of pitching being in a transitory period. I believe you are onto something with the movement issue. Doctoring the ball was officially outlawed in 1919 and that, coupled with the fact that the "new ball" was introduced that same year, led to pitchers having to completely rethink a lot of things, specifically how to regain the movement they had lost without throwing spitballs and shineballs. This contributed to the low amount of strikeouts.

 

2) Players were obsessed with making contact in older days and striking out was considered the ultimate humility. Therefore players didn't take the kind of all or nothing swings that we see alot of players take in modern times.

 

3) Joe Sewell's plate discipline was legendary during his own time. He was hardly the norm.

 

4) Sewell was who replaced Ray Chapman at shortstop for the Indians. Recall that Ray Chapman was the only player ever to die on the field.

[sneakypower]

 

2) Players were obsessed with making contact in older days and striking out was considered the ultimate humility. Therefore players didn't take the kind of all or nothing swings that we see alot of players take in modern times.

 

3) Joe Sewell's plate discipline was legendary during his own time. He was hardly the norm.

that's fine, let's throw Sewell out of the mix. you're still left with Tony Gwynn at 87 and Pierre at 188 as the only two players in remotely modern time to show up on the list; granted, i just eyeballed the list and i'm not even going to bother with felix fermin.

 

#2 is a non-factor. Pierre's remarkable K avoidance is essentially the only thing separating him from the hundreds of other unemployed track stars like Eric Reed & Nook Logan. there's really no shortage of players who put primary emphasis on contact in practice. look at just about every team's crappy utility player.