If You Were the Rays...

[Hosak8]

Having just passed on Posey, and not having a top-tier catcher in your system (Navarro is okay, but not a guy you pencil in for the next 5 years, IMO) wouldn't you at least see what it would take to get Salty from the Rangers? With Price, Davis, and McGee all on the way, you've got the arms necessary.

 

Salty on that team would be pretty impressive.

[shnsajax]

Texas has Max Ramirez to deal right now if they want, and at some point I expect them to. The kid has some power, I saw him crush a ball to left center on Saturday, he hit another one on Sunday. I believe 13 on the year right now with a .370+ avg.

 

I think he will be gone before Salty.

[Clem Fandango]

I can't imagine they'd trade Salty for some prospects after trading Teixeira for him. He's MLB ready right now, I don't see why they would trade Teixeira for a guy who can play and contribute right now, and then deal that guy for a someone who won't be able to contribute for another couple years or so. Like shnsajax said, Maximiliano Ramirez (awesome name) will probably be dealt before Salty.

[shnsajax]

I can't imagine they'd trade Salty for some prospects after trading Teixeira for him. He's MLB ready right now, I don't see why they would trade Teixeira for a guy who can play and contribute right now, and then deal that guy for a someone who won't be able to contribute for another couple years or so. Like shnsajax said, Maximiliano Ramirez (awesome name) will probably be dealt before Salty.

 

I would seriously drop the Ramirez from my name and only be known as Maximiliano if I had that name.

 

If the Rangers could move him for Hellickson they should. Problem is he probably won't stick as a catcher and eventually move thus not making it really worth it for Tampa.

[Hosak8]

I can't imagine they'd trade Salty for some prospects after trading Teixeira for him. He's MLB ready right now, I don't see why they would trade Teixeira for a guy who can play and contribute right now, and then deal that guy for a someone who won't be able to contribute for another couple years or so. Like shnsajax said, Maximiliano Ramirez (awesome name) will probably be dealt before Salty.

 

And yet, despite not being a team in contention, they are splitting his AB's with Gerald Laird. THAT is what doesn't make sense.

 

If I were the Rays, I would make every effort to get a deal done.

[UK1679666180]

Navi is fine, he has improved defensively and is hitting the ball. That surplus of pitching isn't there yet, they shouldn't trade something that isn't there yet. If they trade Davis who becomes real good and Price and McGee don't produce, Hellickson gets hurt, etc., that pitching surplus dies and they'll likely need to overspend via FA or prospects they might not have.

 

Look at the Boise rotation from '01, I believe with Guzman, Willis, Ryu, Hagerty, Mitre. Cubs at the time thought any of them could be expendable b/c of the surplus from one short-season team. The one they trade away is the only one able to maintain any type of career and the Cubs 2 years later have to rely on Shawn Estes and Rusch.

[rawaction]

Navi is fine, he has improved defensively and is hitting the ball. That surplus of pitching isn't there yet, they shouldn't trade something that isn't there yet. If they trade Davis who becomes real good and Price and McGee don't produce, Hellickson gets hurt, etc., that pitching surplus dies and they'll likely need to overspend via FA or prospects they might not have.

 

Look at the Boise rotation from '01, I believe with Guzman, Willis, Ryu, Hagerty, Mitre. Cubs at the time thought any of them could be expendable b/c of the surplus from one short-season team. The one they trade away is the only one able to maintain any type of career and the Cubs 2 years later have to rely on Shawn Estes and Rusch.

 

Listen to this man!

[Tracer Bullet]

Navi is fine, he has improved defensively and is hitting the ball. That surplus of pitching isn't there yet, they shouldn't trade something that isn't there yet. If they trade Davis who becomes real good and Price and McGee don't produce, Hellickson gets hurt, etc., that pitching surplus dies and they'll likely need to overspend via FA or prospects they might not have.

 

Look at the Boise rotation from '01, I believe with Guzman, Willis, Ryu, Hagerty, Mitre. Cubs at the time thought any of them could be expendable b/c of the surplus from one short-season team. The one they trade away is the only one able to maintain any type of career and the Cubs 2 years later have to rely on Shawn Estes and Rusch.

 

While I agree with your point, what portion, if any, does the relative flame-out of that group have to do with the Cubs inability to develop players? If another team had the same stock of young arms, wouldn't they be wise to trade some for a lower risk that was close to ML-ready if they thought they were close to competing on the assumption that they'd have a good chance of developing at least 1 of the remaining guys? I know young pitchers are real high risk, but it doesn't seem wise for a team with a very limited budget to hold a bunch of them until they know which one will be great, which will be ok, and which will suck or be injured.

 

I'm not necessarily saying the Rays are that team or at that point, but more of a general question.

[UK1679666180]

Because it's not about the Cubs' development, it's more about fickle nature of pitchers. Especially for a position where they have someone performing very well. The difference between Navi and Salty isn't worth the cost of top arm.

 

I think TB should do their best to keep these arms until it is sorted out as to who'll stick in the rotation, who'll end up in the pen, and who'll get hurt. Once it is sorted out, then they trade the 2nd tier arms to improve and hopefully those 2nd tier arms would be considered top prospects as well.

 

Similar to the Yankees around '00, they had Soriano and D'Angelo Jiminez who were both top 2B/SS prospects, they knew Soriano was the better of the two and traded Jiminez and kept Soriano until a bigger trade presented itself (A-Rod).

[SouthSideRyan]

Because it's not about the Cubs' development, it's more about fickle nature of pitchers. Especially for a position where they have someone performing very well. The difference between Navi and Salty isn't worth the cost of top arm.

 

I think TB should do their best to keep these arms until it is sorted out as to who'll stick in the rotation, who'll end up in the pen, and who'll get hurt. Once it is sorted out, then they trade the 2nd tier arms to improve and hopefully those 2nd tier arms would be considered top prospects as well.

 

Similar to the Yankees around '00, they had Soriano and D'Angelo Jiminez who were both top 2B/SS prospects, they knew Soriano was the better of the two and traded Jiminez and kept Soriano until a bigger trade presented itself (A-Rod).

 

That seems like a really passive way to deal with prospects. That method guarantees you never trade a prospect at his high point. Now, I'm not saying the Rays should pick a guy and deal him, I think they're best to save their big bullets for '09, but I can't say I approve of taking a wait and see approach and just trading whichever is worse once they get close to the big leagues. Shouldn't a team's scouts be able to approximate who they see as the best bets, then if their opinion is different than that of the majority, you trade the guy you value least relative to his perceived worth.

[TruffleShuffle]

Navi is fine, he has improved defensively and is hitting the ball. That surplus of pitching isn't there yet, they shouldn't trade something that isn't there yet. If they trade Davis who becomes real good and Price and McGee don't produce, Hellickson gets hurt, etc., that pitching surplus dies and they'll likely need to overspend via FA or prospects they might not have.

 

Look at the Boise rotation from '01, I believe with Guzman, Willis, Ryu, Hagerty, Mitre. Cubs at the time thought any of them could be expendable b/c of the surplus from one short-season team. The one they trade away is the only one able to maintain any type of career and the Cubs 2 years later have to rely on Shawn Estes and Rusch.

 

you are correct sir.

 

navarro hit .285/.340/.475/.815 over the second half last year. his first half was more a result of horrendous luck on balls in play than an inability to hit major league pitching. this year he's at .333/.368/.429 with a solid line drive rate of 21%. his walk rate has been pretty low, but he has a solid track record of patience in the minors. he's certainly good enough to give you average offense for the catcher position, which is just fine considering that he's making the minimum or close to it. if the rays are going to sell off prospects for a stretch run or to upgrade for the next 2-3 years, they should look at RF/DH rather than catcher.