Soriano would make a great D/H

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Okay, I'll bite. Your thesis that Soriano would necessarily be a crappy defensive 1B is unconvincing. Two words: Todd Walker. A solidly below average defensive 2B and OF, yet he became an adequate defensive 1B. Soriano is a far better athlete than Walker ever was.

 

Walker was a below average 2B because he didn't have good range, Soriano was a below average 2B because he couldn't field the ball. Walker had 83 errors in 8272 IP at 2B, Soriano had 106 errors in 6752 IP at 2B. Again, Walker couldn't move very well to get to balls, moving him to first hides that. Soriano can't catch balls coming at him on the ground at high speed, moving him to first makes this significantly worse.

 

And when Soriano is constantly hobbled his arm isn't nearly good enough to make him a non-crappy defensive OF - that's a fact that has been demonstrated clearly, so the hell with his arm.

 

Okay, so we'll eliminate any semblence of defensive value from Soriano. If "we're stuck with him", one would think we'd try and maximize that sort of thing.

 

 

And his stats wouldn't be as impressive at 1B? So what? We're stuck with him, essentially married to him, and have a humongous amount of money invested in him. Best to keep him on the field as often as possible and hopefully not in a position where he can cost games with crummy defense.

 

Where's he going to cost us more games with his "crummy defense", 1B or LF? The answer is 1B. And positional scarcity matters, especially when you're getting average to below average production out of guy you're trying to "hide" at 1B.

 

And persuading Lee to accept a trade needn't be an "elaborate plan." Just tell him the organization feels it's necessary to clear 1B for Soriano by the fall of 2010 at the latest, which means there is no Derrek Lee in the Cubs' longterm plans. If Lee craves longterm job security he may very well want to move to a team that will offer him an extension.

 

Getting Lee to waive his no-trade clause is going to limit the teams we potentially deal with, probably significantly. That's going to ensure we don't get proper value for him. It's not about Lee, it's about the other teams knowing we "need" to trade Lee under that scenario.

 

 

I'm also not buying this idea that Soriano wouldn't be less injury-prone at 1B. Stretching at 1B is not a sudden or violent motion. You have time to prepare for and execute the movement at your own pace. I think he'd do fine. Getting him off the astroturf of the outfield and onto the dirt of the infield can only help, as would having to run less.

 

Seriously, the opposite of this is true. Have you ever run on dirt? On grass? Which is harder and less forgiving? Which do you think is better for a guy with leg issues, to track down fly balls and line drives on grass, or to be involved with nearly every play, often needing to use tight footwork and stretching to field throws?

 

 

And all these statements I see in this thread positing the inconceivability of moving Lee are statements that could be made about any really good player. Apparently if it were up to some of you people no good player would ever be traded. They'd all play out their careers for one team, like George Brett. In the real world good players actually do get traded and the universe doesn't implode when it happens. Sometimes people are even happy with what they get back in trade.

 

In this current baseball climate, how many players of Lee's caliber have been traded while they were still performing at a level that was appropriate with their contract? How many of them were traded away from teams that were trying to contend?

[abuck1220]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now. Edited May 29, 2008 by abuck1220

[abuck1220]

dirt is softer than grass...lol.

[abuck1220]

there are a lot of stadiums with astroturf though...good point. oh wait, it's not 1978 anymore, nevermind.

[Shavo]

Triple the post, triple the point.

[NCCubFan]

And persuading Lee to accept a trade needn't be an "elaborate plan." Just tell him the organization feels it's necessary to clear 1B for Soriano by the fall of 2010 at the latest, which means there is no Derrek Lee in the Cubs' longterm plans. If Lee craves longterm job security he may very well want to move to a team that will offer him an extension.

That would be the equivalent of the Bulls asking Michael Jordan to accept a trade if he wants long-term job security because they have to move an overpaid, lesser player to his position. You don't move one of the best players at a position to make room for a lesser player; you have things backwards.

[frostwyrm]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now.

 

Awesome post. You're a credit to this community. Seriously, if you won't even try to come up with anything remotely insightful to say why can't you just stay out of the thread? Way too many of your posts are nothing but empty insults, and many of the others are just plain stupid. People here, including myself, show a hell of a lot more civility towards you than you display to others. Other people have disagreed respectfully and supported their arguments, but not you. Just leave the thread if you can't add anything. Better yet, just leave.

[inari]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now.

 

Awesome post. You're a credit to this community. Seriously, if you won't even try to come up with anything remotely insightful to say why can't you just stay out of the thread? Way too many of your posts are nothing but empty insults, and many of the others are just plain stupid. People here, including myself, show a hell of a lot more civility towards you than you display to others. Other people have disagreed respectfully and supported their arguments, but not you. Just leave the thread if you can't add anything. Better yet, just leave.

 

I'm all for keeping the boards free of needless insults, but I'm not sure what you were expecting in response to bringing up this absurd idea multiple times.

[imb]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now.

 

Awesome post. You're a credit to this community. Seriously, if you won't even try to come up with anything remotely insightful to say why can't you just stay out of the thread? Way too many of your posts are nothing but empty insults, and many of the others are just plain stupid. People here, including myself, show a hell of a lot more civility towards you than you display to others. Other people have disagreed respectfully and supported their arguments, but not you. Just leave the thread if you can't add anything. Better yet, just leave.

 

While you again ignore a terrific response

[NCCubFan]

The insults are to stop all around or else the thread will be locked.

[Banedon]

Soriano gets terrible jumps on fly balls. Can you imagine the reaction time on a line drive down the line? Or a screamer at his head? Good lord the man could be killed. Do you want that on your conscience?

[abuck1220]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now.

 

Awesome post. You're a credit to this community. Seriously, if you won't even try to come up with anything remotely insightful to say why can't you just stay out of the thread? Way too many of your posts are nothing but empty insults, and many of the others are just plain stupid. People here, including myself, show a hell of a lot more civility towards you than you display to others. Other people have disagreed respectfully and supported their arguments, but not you. Just leave the thread if you can't add anything. Better yet, just leave.

 

sorry, but it's hard to take your pleas for insightful posts seriously when you continue to propose this ridiculous idea.

 

i could sit on the keyboard and come up with something more insightful than trading lee, one of the team's most productive and popular players, so that soriano can move to a position he's never played before, hurting the team both at 1b and lf...all because soriano lost a ball in the sun and had one bad defensive game in st. louis. i mean, you're basically proposing trading one of the cubs best players to improve the leftfield defense. that's insanity. you're saying that the defensive production the cubs get out of leftfield is more important than the offensive production lee provides. it's leftfield. leftfield. do you realize how far down "leftfield defense" is on the list of things a baseball team needs? and then do you realize how nice it is to have a gold glove, .900 OPS 1b?

 

the reason i haven't put the effort into making any "insightful" posts on this matter is because you're idea is so stupid it doesn't deserve insightful responses (plus, for a while there i was sure you were joking...that's how terrible this idea is). if someone came on here trying to tell me the earth was flat, i wouldn't put much effort into refuting that either.

[frostwyrm]

you shouldn't have bit. believe it or not, your idea looks even dumber now.

 

Awesome post. You're a credit to this community. Seriously, if you won't even try to come up with anything remotely insightful to say why can't you just stay out of the thread? Way too many of your posts are nothing but empty insults, and many of the others are just plain stupid. People here, including myself, show a hell of a lot more civility towards you than you display to others. Other people have disagreed respectfully and supported their arguments, but not you. Just leave the thread if you can't add anything. Better yet, just leave.

 

sorry, but it's hard to take your pleas for insightful posts seriously when you continue to propose this ridiculous idea.

 

i could sit on the keyboard and come up with something more insightful than trading lee, one of the team's most productive and popular players, so that soriano can move to a position he's never played before, hurting the team both at 1b and lf...all because soriano lost a ball in the sun and had one bad defensive game in st. louis. i mean, you're basically proposing trading one of the cubs best players to improve the leftfield defense. that's insanity. you're saying that the defensive production the cubs get out of leftfield is more important than the offensive production lee provides. it's leftfield. leftfield. do you realize how far down "leftfield defense" is on the list of things a baseball team needs? and then do you realize how nice it is to have a gold glove, .900 OPS 1b?

 

the reason i haven't put the effort into making any "insightful" posts on this matter is because you're idea is so stupid it doesn't deserve insightful responses (plus, for a while there i was sure you were joking...that's how terrible this idea is). if someone came on here trying to tell me the earth was flat, i wouldn't put much effort into refuting that either.

 

How does this excuse your acting like a jerk? Even in this post you had to slip in insults. Why not just stay out of the thread if you can't comment without resorting to insults? There is no valid excuse for your type of behavior.

[Amazing_Grace]

If Soriano's legs got so bad he couldn't play anywhere in the field except 1b or 3b (which he would be awful at for any number of good reasons already mentioned), I wouldn't play him there. I'd trade him. If I had the money to eat part of the contract and get good value for him, I would. If not, I'd take back someone else who also had an awful contract but who happened to play a position that was open in the organization. Most likely, I'd be trading him to an AL team in need of a DH.

 

I think the Cubs probably will end up trading Soriano a few years down the road and eating most of his contract to do it. I don't see that happening till after the 2010 season at the earliest, and more likely it will be around 2012 when he has just a couple years left so the Cubs can juggle bad contracts with another team like they did with Hundley. A lot depends on the new owner and how much he spends over the next few years. If the budget goes into the 140-150M range like the Red Sox, then Soriano's contract won't be that big of an issue, because we can just sign players to replace his declining production. If the new owners hold the budget more or less where it is, then that contract will be a problem, but not an insurmountable one. The Cubs will just have to be creative about trading him. If the new owner drops the budget back to the 90-95M range, then we can all enjoy watching a 38 year old Soriano make 17M to put up a sub .800 OPS for a most likely awful team in 2014.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The insults are to stop all around or else the thread will be locked.

 

Locking this thread would be a great idea, but not because of the insults.

[NCCubFan]

I warned that the insults were to stop, yet they continued.