Please Please Please Get Rid of Jason Marquis

[sneakypower]

well it's often argued that pitcher's have no control over their LD%

[CubinNY]

well it's often argued that pitcher's have no control over their LD%

By who?

[frostwyrm]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/962/toilet13marquisee8.gif

[sneakypower]

McCracken, Tippett, Woolner, Studeman.

 

now i dont completely agree with it, to tell you the truth. but there's also problems in the definition as well. thats more of an argument for a different topic.

[VanceJergins]

well it's often argued that pitcher's have no control over their LD%

By who?

 

Jason Marquis

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I had to wait forever to see Marquis' head pop out of there. I thought Frostwyrm was playing a joke on everyone who thought they knew what was coming after the Macias version.

[twothousandfive]

He's lucky his ERA isn't over 6. What's worse is this is the time of year when he's supposed to be good.

 

Last August Sean Marshall's ERA was 6.21 over 27.2 innings in six starts. He'd pitched 70 innings, and pretty good innings, leading up to that, starting in late May. Now, I suspect another year of experience will generate some extra knowledge and endurance, but banking on him to be effective from mid-May through October 2008 would be a foolish gamble.

 

It is reasonable to prefer to live with an ERA around 5 and maybe better from Jason Marquis (4.45 in April) up until July, when they think they'll have both more knowledge of their younger pitchers, and more confidence that they won't fade before the end of the year. Why turn a bunch of young pitchers into Jason Marquis? A bet on Marquis to be an average bottom of the rotation starter for the first half of the season is a pretty good bet. One that is actually paying off. They are 3-4 in his starts. In one victory they bailed him out. In one loss, a good outing was wasted.

 

One under .500 in games by a number 5 starter suggests something dramatically better than .500 in games by the starters who are better than he is.

 

(edit for W-L thru 5/14)

Edited May 14, 2008 by twothousandfive

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

He's lucky his ERA isn't over 6. What's worse is this is the time of year when he's supposed to be good.

 

Last August Sean Marshall's ERA was 6.21 over 27.2 innings in six starts. He'd pitched 70 innings, and pretty good innings, leading up to that, starting in late May. Now, I suspect another year of experience will generate some extra knowledge and endurance, but banking on him to be effective from mid-May through October 2008 would be a foolish gamble.

 

It is reasonable to prefer to live with an ERA around 5 and maybe better from Jason Marquis (4.45 in April) up until July, when they think they'll have both more knowledge of their younger pitchers, and more confidence that they won't fade before the end of the year. Why turn a bunch of young pitchers into Jason Marquis? A bet on Marquis to be an average bottom of the rotation starter for the first half of the season is a pretty good bet. One that is actually paying off. They are 3-3 in his starts. In one victory they bailed him out. In one loss, a good outing was wasted.

 

.500 in games by a number 5 starter suggests something dramatically better than .500 in games by the starters who are better than he is.

:facepalm:

[brinoch]

1. It's easier to win games when your pitcher keeps the other team from scoring a bunch of runs.

2. Having more wins is better than less wins.

 

Thus, having the pitchers in your rotation who keep the other team from scoring bunches of runs would be the correct approach to winning lots of games.

[brinoch]

He's lucky his ERA isn't over 6. What's worse is this is the time of year when he's supposed to be good.

 

Last August Sean Marshall's ERA was 6.21 over 27.2 innings in six starts. He'd pitched 70 innings, and pretty good innings, leading up to that, starting in late May. Now, I suspect another year of experience will generate some extra knowledge and endurance, but banking on him to be effective from mid-May through October 2008 would be a foolish gamble.

 

It is reasonable to prefer to live with an ERA around 5 and maybe better from Jason Marquis (4.45 in April) up until July, when they think they'll have both more knowledge of their younger pitchers, and more confidence that they won't fade before the end of the year. Why turn a bunch of young pitchers into Jason Marquis? A bet on Marquis to be an average bottom of the rotation starter for the first half of the season is a pretty good bet. One that is actually paying off. They are 3-4 in his starts. In one victory they bailed him out. In one loss, a good outing was wasted.

 

One under .500 in games by a number 5 starter suggests something dramatically better than .500 in games by the starters who are better than he is.

 

(edit for W-L thru 5/14)

 

Holy selective stat use, Batman!

[CubColtPacer]

Marquis looks like a completely different pitcher right now than even his inconsistent self last year. His sinker hasn't worked for more than a batter or two at a time, which is completely different from last year.

 

Yes, he probably still is and can put up 5th starter numbers, but the Jason Marquis we're seeing on the mound right now is most definitely not the best option for the starting staff. Before, there was a question. Right now, there's none, but I just don't know what they will be able to do about it.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's lucky his ERA isn't over 6. What's worse is this is the time of year when he's supposed to be good.

 

Last August Sean Marshall's ERA was 6.21 over 27.2 innings in six starts. He'd pitched 70 innings, and pretty good innings, leading up to that, starting in late May. Now, I suspect another year of experience will generate some extra knowledge and endurance, but banking on him to be effective from mid-May through October 2008 would be a foolish gamble

 

Here's another way to characterize August '07 for Marshall.

 

First 2 starts: 8 IP, 12 ER, 12.25 ERA

Last 4 starts: 19.2 IP, 7 ER, 3.20 ERA

 

To characterize Marshall as falling apart last August is not true.

[twothousandfive]

4 starts, 19.2 innings? And that's a positive? I think it is fair to conclude he had an issue with stamina in August last year. Here's one way to avoid a repeat -- don't try to get him from mid-May to August as a starter. Start someone else in mid-May.

 

Make him a starter beginning in, say June. Now, if he loses steam in September, well that's no improvement, and it's a bad time of year to find out, but hopefully other options are available to get to the post-season. If he doesn't fade, he may stay strong through October.

 

Or start him in mid-May. If he has improved his stamina a bit, but not a lot, he fades in August/September, and you are still looking for a replacement for the post-season.

 

Or, he maybe he's a gutsy guy and tries to pitch through weariness and ends up injuring himself. For April and May, go with a #5 starter who pitches like a # 5 starter. Then try to upgrade, with guys who can make it through the rest of the season.

[JGalt73]

Per Gordon Wittenmyer:

 

Weekend rotation vs. Pirates: Gallagher Friday, Zambrano Saturday and Marquis Sunday. Sticking w/ the Q Man

 

Longest leash in the pound.

[sneakypower]

1. It's easier to win games when your pitcher keeps the other team from scoring a bunch of runs.

2. Having more wins is better than less wins.

 

Thus, having the pitchers in your rotation who keep the other team from scoring bunches of runs would be the correct approach to winning lots of games.

weren't we 20-13 in marq's starts last year?

[brinoch]

1. It's easier to win games when your pitcher keeps the other team from scoring a bunch of runs.

2. Having more wins is better than less wins.

 

Thus, having the pitchers in your rotation who keep the other team from scoring bunches of runs would be the correct approach to winning lots of games.

weren't we 20-13 in marq's starts last year?

 

I don't know. Frankly, I don't care. Marquis cannot control his teammates' offensive output when he pitches. He does have an impact on how many runs he gives up. Ignoring your team's offensive variability for the moment, while you certainly might win a bunch of games with crappy pitchers, logic intuits that you'll win more games with better pitchers.

 

So if you don't want to put your team in the best position to win, that's your call. I'm going with the best team I can.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

4 starts, 19.2 innings? And that's a positive? I think it is fair to conclude he had an issue with stamina in August last year. Here's one way to avoid a repeat -- don't try to get him from mid-May to August as a starter. Start someone else in mid-May.

 

He went 5, 5, 6, and 3.2 innings, and that start was shortened partially because he gave up 3 unearned runs. This wearing down that Marshall supposedly went through is a myth.

[YearofDaCubs]

Per Gordon Wittenmyer:

 

Weekend rotation vs. Pirates: Gallagher Friday, Zambrano Saturday and Marquis Sunday. Sticking w/ the Q Man

 

Longest leash in the pound.

Lou is starting to get on my nerves with his Dusty-like veteran love. Hill, even though he wasn't good was still much better than Marquis yet he's in currently in the minors. Marquis, is still with us and still sucking. It's so frustrating.

[snoodmonger]

I had to wait forever to see Marquis' head pop out of there.

 

I did, too. It was worth it.

[Tyrant]

One more bad start and Marquis is done, I think.

[YearofDaCubs]

One more bad start and Marquis is done, I think.

Only problem with that is, we've said that before and he's still in the rotation.

[SABR Gamer]

THE ROSTER ONLY HAS ROOM FOR ONE CRAPPY EX-CARDINAL!