Good Job, Wood

[Vanilla Ice]

That was the worst thing about the game today - you knew the whining was gonna start already. :evil:

 

that and the fact that we lost.

[javy knows my name]

That was the worst thing about the game today - you knew the whining was gonna start already. :evil:

 

that and the fact that we lost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pissed that we lost. But I expected it once we hit extra innings. The Wood whining is much more disconcerting to me.

[reds44]

he still hasn't blown a save

i hope that was sarcasm.

Well...he hasn't...

Neither has Tom Gordon.

 

And why exactly are people against Marmol closing?

 

Marmol and Wood were used in the exact same situation today.

Ok?

 

So why are you talking about Marmol being a closer based on what happened today? Wood still has to pitch somewhere.

Wood pitched in the 9th today because he is the closer.

 

Umm, that makes no sense. Wood pitched in the 9th because he is a reliever.

 

Anyways, what difference would it have made if he gave up those 3 runs in the 8th instead of the 9th?

Umm, it makes perfect sense. First game off the year, and an off day tomorrow, once that game went to the 9th 0-0 the Cubs were never going to have a save opprotunity therefor your closer pitches then 9th. The Cubs did it with Wood, the Tigers did it with Jones, and the Reds did it with Cordero. So no, he didn't pitch the 9th "because he is a reliever."

 

It turned out not to matter today, but the difference is you have 6 outs to make up those 3 runs instead of 3. Still nobody has answered why people don't want Marmol closing over Wood. It's certainly not because Wood is better than Marmol, because we all know that is false.

Edited April 1, 2008 by reds44

[David]

Just the whining in general is annoying. But it's a baseball forum about the Cubs. What do you expect?

 

I was at the game today. Wish we'd have won after all that buildup. Oh, well.

[ctcf]

OUR COBS CANT WIN ANYTHING

 

whatever happened to that Anemic Offense guy?

[David]

Because your best relievers should come in in difficult situations, not save situations.

[reds44]

Because your best relievers should come in in difficult situations, not save situations.

I guess the Cubs are the only team to live by that theory.

[David]

Because your best relievers should come in in difficult situations, not save situations.

I guess the Cubs are the only team to live by that theory.

 

Please. The closer "position" is maybe the second most overrated role in baseball (you guess the other one... the guy in your sig will be handling that one for your team.... dusty, lol).

 

If you had a guy like Marmol, would you want him coming in with a lead, nobody on, and nobody out in the 9th, or, say, the 7th inning with two on and nobody out in a tie game? It's pretty obvious to me.

 

BTW, one season (nor one game, nor one inning a piece) does not make it clear that Marmol is a better pitcher than Wood.

[big_shooter17]

he still hasn't blown a save

i hope that was sarcasm.

Well...he hasn't...

Neither has Tom Gordon.

 

And why exactly are people against Marmol closing?

 

Marmol and Wood were used in the exact same situation today.

Ok?

 

So why are you talking about Marmol being a closer based on what happened today? Wood still has to pitch somewhere.

Wood pitched in the 9th today because he is the closer.

 

Umm, that makes no sense. Wood pitched in the 9th because he is a reliever.

 

Anyways, what difference would it have made if he gave up those 3 runs in the 8th instead of the 9th?

Umm, it makes perfect sense. First game off the year, and an off day tomorrow, once that game went to the 9th 0-0 the Cubs were never going to have a save opprotunity therefor your closer pitches then 9th. The Cubs did it with Wood, the Tigers did it with Jones, and the Reds did it with Cordero. So no, he didn't pitch the 9th "because he is a reliever."

 

It turned out not to matter today, but the difference is you have 6 outs to make up those 3 runs instead of 3. Still nobody has answered why people don't want Marmol closing over Wood. It's certainly not because Wood is better than Marmol, because we all know that is false.

 

i prefer having marmol available when he would be most valuable personally. marmol is definitely the best bullpen arm and although i doubt that this is lou's rationale, but it would be mine. why isn't joba chamberlain the closer for the yankees? i know that you'll say that it's a different situation, but right now i don't think that it is a stretch to say that joba is the best reliever in that bullpen. same could be said for other teams.

[David]

I shouldn't be so smug about CPatt leading off for the Reds, though. Theriot isn't much better.

[reds44]

I shouldn't be so smug about CPatt leading off for the Reds, though. Theriot isn't much better.

They both suck, lol.

 

And my signature is pure sarcasm.

[Vanilla Ice]

I shouldn't be so smug about CPatt leading off for the Reds, though. Theriot isn't much better.

They both suck, lol.

 

And my signature is pure sarcasm.

 

want to fill in a brother with sigs off?

[reds44]

I shouldn't be so smug about CPatt leading off for the Reds, though. Theriot isn't much better.

They both suck, lol.

 

And my signature is pure sarcasm.

 

want to fill in a brother with sigs off?

I have a Corey Patterson picture in my sig and it says "Come On, Dude."

[17 Seconds]

Because your best relievers should come in in difficult situations, not save situations.

I guess the Cubs are the only team to live by that theory.

 

So you think Joe Borowski is a better pitcher than Rafael Betancourt? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

What seperates a closer from other relievers are save situations. Was today a save situation? No. What if Wood pitches a scoreless 9th and they go to the 10th or 11th still scoreless? Then another reliever is pitching in the exact same situation. Are they ore likely to fail in those situations because they aren't a closer. Wood came in because he was thebest pitcher available at that time, at least in LOu's mind.

 

Also, why do you assume that since Wood blew a tie game that he's more likely to blow a save? Those are completely different situations. For example, have you seen Dempster's situations in save on non-save situations from last season? Probably not, because you're a Reds fan. Why don't you stick to the Reds?

[reds44]

Because your best relievers should come in in difficult situations, not save situations.

I guess the Cubs are the only team to live by that theory.

 

So you think Joe Borowski is a better pitcher than Rafael Betancourt? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

What seperates a closer from other relievers are save situations. Was today a save situation? No. What if Wood pitches a scoreless 9th and they go to the 10th or 11th still scoreless? Then another reliever is pitching in the exact same situation. Are they ore likely to fail in those situations because they aren't a closer. Wood came in because he was thebest pitcher available at that time, at least in LOu's mind.

 

Also, why do you assume that since Wood blew a tie game that he's more likely to blow a save? Those are completely different situations. For example, have you seen Dempster's situations in save on non-save situations from last season? Probably not, because you're a Reds fan. Why don't you stick to the Reds?

Of course there are cases where the closer isn't the best bullpen pitcher. I also don't think Todd Jones is better than Joel Zumaya, but I would say more often that not the best reliever is the closer. Besides, Borowski and Jones, while maybe not the "best" relief pitche,r have established track records as closers. Wood, does not.

 

I know all about Dempster's struggles when not in save situations last year. I think that has to do with him not being a very good pitcher than it does anythng else. I watch the Cubs plenty.

[Kosuke1]

A pitcher is a pitcher. A pitcher is the same pitcher when it's 1-0 in the 9th inning as he is if it's 0-0 in the 9th inning. The only time you might be able to argue that it's situational is only when a starting pitcher has a huge lead and just concentrates on not walking hitters, other than that a pitcher is the same no matter what.

 

I think Kerry Wood is best used as a closer as a way to keep him healthy. Middle relievers have to be able to get warm quickly and be able to warm up, sit down, warm up, sit down according to the situations in the game. That's a lot to ask for a guy with a crankly shoulder. As a closer he'll get much more time to warm up and he won't have to warm up, sit down and so forth as often. Sure he's not better than Marmol but would you rather have Kerry closing and Marmol in middle relief or Marmol closing and Kerry Wood on the DL? I'll take the former every time.

[rynefan]

It was almost surreal watching it today. Gagne and Wood struggling. At one time they were potential HOF'ers. I don't hold it against Wood. If there's any blame, it's the dead bats.

[Ender]

I'd offer the same advice to Cubs fans as I offered to Brewer fans today, ignore what RP do in May/Early April. Unless they pitch in some sort of winter league they just don't get enough work in spring training and it is a crapshoot. Every year a bunch of solid RP struggle early and are just fine by late April, this year will be no different.

 

As long as Wood was throwing with good velocity I wouldn't worry one bit about today. Gagne was throwing 91-94 which is about what I would have expected out of him, maybe just a tad lower than i would hope for. Wood was throwing 94-96 which I would assume is pretty acceptable for him.

[NCCubFan]

And why exactly are people against Marmol closing?

I have nothing against Marmol closing. I have everything against someone writing off Wood because of one game.

[badnews]

The official season of making excuses for Saint Kerry has begun!

 

No Cub has done so little for so much adoration.

 

He has proven nothing to me about his greatness as a reliever, let alone as a closer. Yet he gets treated like Mariano Rivera.

 

He took a 1 year deal worth $4 million plus incentives to stay here, and this means he tends to orphans on the streets of Calcutta. Give me a break. Hendry probably promised him the closer job, which he might be hard-pressed to get elsewhere and he figured he could raise his value next year for his work this year.

 

Somehow the fact that he can't stay healthy and he doesn't even look particularly great as a reliever when he is healthy has bamboozled 95% of Cubs fans into thinking this guy is the #1 badass.

 

No Cub gets more free passes and excuses. "Oh he can't come in in non-save situations." I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of these kinds of bogus excuses this year.

[Rob]

I imagine there's going to be a pretty huge disconnect between informed Cubs fans and the uninitiated on the issue of our closer.

 

Those of us who have bothered to read up on everything aren't concerned about the closing situation, knowing that it doesn't really matter all that much who our "closer" is. In fact, we realize that making Wood our closer frees up Carlos Marmol to come in when it matters, as opposed to riding the pine until the 9th just in case we're up by three runs or less.

 

Casual Cubs fans are going to want to incite a riot... but if they had their way, the Cubs would be slightly worse off.

[BCVM22]

The official season of making excuses for Saint Kerry has begun!

 

No Cub has done so little for so much adoration.

 

He has proven nothing to me about his greatness as a reliever, let alone as a closer. Yet he gets treated like Mariano Rivera.

 

He took a 1 year deal worth $4 million plus incentives to stay here, and this means he tends to orphans on the streets of Calcutta. Give me a break. Hendry probably promised him the closer job, which he might be hard-pressed to get elsewhere and he figured he could raise his value next year for his work this year.

 

Somehow the fact that he can't stay healthy and he doesn't even look particularly great as a reliever when he is healthy has bamboozled 95% of Cubs fans into thinking this guy is the #1 badass.

 

No Cub gets more free passes and excuses. "Oh he can't come in in non-save situations." I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of these kinds of bogus excuses this year.

 

What a sham the man is.

[Flames24Rulz]

The official season of making excuses for Saint Kerry has begun!

 

No Cub has done so little for so much adoration.

 

He has proven nothing to me about his greatness as a reliever, let alone as a closer. Yet he gets treated like Mariano Rivera.

 

He took a 1 year deal worth $4 million plus incentives to stay here, and this means he tends to orphans on the streets of Calcutta. Give me a break. Hendry probably promised him the closer job, which he might be hard-pressed to get elsewhere and he figured he could raise his value next year for his work this year.

 

Somehow the fact that he can't stay healthy and he doesn't even look particularly great as a reliever when he is healthy has bamboozled 95% of Cubs fans into thinking this guy is the #1 badass.

 

No Cub gets more free passes and excuses. "Oh he can't come in in non-save situations." I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of these kinds of bogus excuses this year.

 

Why not? A lot of people gave Dempster those said excuses last year.

[Yanksfan1523]

he still hasn't blown a save

i hope that was sarcasm.

Well...he hasn't...

 

Wood also did not lose today. ;)

[third eye]

I imagine there's going to be a pretty huge disconnect between informed Cubs fans and the uninitiated on the issue of our closer.

 

Those of us who have bothered to read up on everything aren't concerned about the closing situation, knowing that it doesn't really matter all that much who our "closer" is. In fact, we realize that making Wood our closer frees up Carlos Marmol to come in when it matters, as opposed to riding the pine until the 9th just in case we're up by three runs or less.

 

Casual Cubs fans are going to want to incite a riot... but if they had their way, the Cubs would be slightly worse off.

 

 

I personally have no concerns about Wood as "closer" after today. I also agree that the best reliever should be used in the the most high leverage situations. However, I don't necessarily write off the idea of closer as an actual role completely. I suppose this is largely because of the residual bad taste in my mouth from the Latroy Hawkins experiment that effectively sunk the 2004 season. He was excellent in a setup role, but clearly could not handle the 9th inning role. Yes it is anecdotal (gasp). I recognize that it is not statistically rigorous and that his end of season rate stats were still respectable that year. Still, his stuff, WHIP, K/9, K/BB splits and whatever other peripherals we want to examine didnt translate into success in that role. Unfortunately, I still believe it is a label that not everyone can handle, even though this gets into the "clutch" argument again (dont want to go there). I'm tempted to throw the 2003 early season closer by committee model that Boston tried to trot out. But the problem there wasn't roles, it was a lack of good relievers. Still, they did concede and move back to the traditional closer the following year.

 

:-" :blush: