Why Dempster over Marquis?

[Little Slide Rooter]

We all know the jason Marquis story. Starts off strong, and begins to fade before completely falling abart around late July. However, the problem is, we dont know much at all about the Ryan Dempster story, as far as starting is concerned. Yet Lou has long since reserved a spot for Demp in the rotation, yet Marquis is likely to be traded or end up in the Pen. While its just Spring, Marquis has looked great, and Demp has looked very good at times, but very shakey at times. While I dont trust either all that much, I trust Marquis, whose at least a proven innings eater over Dempster who has been known to come in, quickly load the baes, and sometimes get out of it, and sometimes not, and if and if Marquis starts to fade when he usually does find a replacement.

[erik316wttn]

Because Dempster sucks less?

[javy knows my name]

Because Dempster sucks less?

He absolutely does not.

[JockJones]

Because Dempster sucks less?

He absolutely does not.

 

+1

[erik316wttn]

I think the number one thing that baffled me this offseason is the extreme Dempster hate. And by that I mean hating on his abilities, not hating on the actual man.

 

He wasn't terrible as a closer for us last year. I'll grant you, in non-save situations, he sucked. Even I said that. But when the game was on the line, he usually shut the door. How many blown saves did he have last year? Anyone? Bueller?

[Guest]

I think the number one thing that baffled me this offseason is the extreme Dempster hate. And by that I mean hating on his abilities, not hating on the actual man.

 

He wasn't terrible as a closer for us last year. I'll grant you, in non-save situations, he sucked. Even I said that. But when the game was on the line, he usually shut the door. How many blown saves did he have last year? Anyone? Bueller?

 

A big part of the hate is due to Lou considering pitching Dempster in said non-save situations where he sucked last year. I don't mind Dempster as a closer but anywere else, not so much.

[Clem Fandango]

I think the number one thing that baffled me this offseason is the extreme Dempster hate. And by that I mean hating on his abilities, not hating on the actual man.

 

He wasn't terrible as a closer for us last year. I'll grant you, in non-save situations, he sucked. Even I said that. But when the game was on the line, he usually shut the door. How many blown saves did he have last year? Anyone? Bueller?

 

He had only 3 blown saves, if memory serves me correctly. Baseball Prospectus says that as a starter, PECOTA predicted Dempster having a 4.78 ERA, but his WARP increased slightly from 8.2 as a closer to 10.9 as a starter, fwiw. Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher, but it had to come to two of Dempster, Lieber, and Marquis. Honestly, I think Dempster will out perform Marquis as a starter but that's not saying much, he's just the lesser of two evils.

[mcgoobs]

Jason Marquis is basically guaranteed mediocrity. He'll probably pitch 200 innings unless he gets seriously injured, and he'll probably give you nothing better than a 100 ERA+.

 

Dempster is a great unknown as a starter. He hasn't pitched more than 92 innings since he was moved to the bullpen, and his most recent seasons as a starter were abysmal.

 

I'd rather take the known mediocrity over the pitcher who will likely be very very bad.

[javy knows my name]

Jason Marquis is basically guaranteed mediocrity. He'll probably pitch 200 innings unless he gets seriously injured, and he'll probably give you nothing better than a 100 ERA+.

 

Dempster is a great unknown as a starter. He hasn't pitched more than 92 innings since he was moved to the bullpen, and his most recent seasons as a starter were abysmal.

 

I'd rather take the known mediocrity over the pitcher who will likely be very very bad.

But he was an All-Star, dude

[erik316wttn]

Jason Marquis is basically guaranteed mediocrity. He'll probably pitch 200 innings unless he gets seriously injured, and he'll probably give you nothing better than a 100 ERA+.

 

Dempster is a great unknown as a starter. He hasn't pitched more than 92 innings since he was moved to the bullpen, and his most recent seasons as a starter were abysmal.

 

I'd rather take the known mediocrity over the pitcher who will likely be very very bad.

 

I'm sure if Dempster gets to be too bad, he'll be moved back to the pen in some capacity and Marshall or Gallagher will be called up.

[fromthestretch]

Honestly, I think Dempster will out perform Marquis as a starter but that's not saying much, he's just the lesser of two evils.

 

I'd be very surprised if that happened. Dempster's career numbers as a starter are lousy. Marquis has at least put up a few league-average seasons.

[Tyrant]

Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher

 

Perfect world? No way. Gallagher isn't ready for a full season in the bigs.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I guess now we should be asking why Dempster over Lieber.

[javy knows my name]

I guess now we should be asking why Dempster over Lieber.

Or why Lieber was signed in the first place

[jersey cubs fan]

I guess now we should be asking why Dempster over Lieber.

Or why Lieber was signed in the first place

 

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd bet that Lou and Hendry think one of Marquis/Dempster is going to be gone before the trading deadline, and that Lieber is expected to be the "steady veteran" who steps in to take their place.

[Derwood]

I guess now we should be asking why Dempster over Lieber.

Or why Lieber was signed in the first place

 

If I were a betting man, and I am, I'd bet that Lou and Hendry think one of Marquis/Dempster is going to be gone before the trading deadline, and that Lieber is expected to be the "steady veteran" who steps in to take their place.

 

and better to spend money to sign that guy as an FA now than to trade prospects for him at the deadline

[Clem Fandango]

Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher

 

Perfect world? No way. Gallagher isn't ready for a full season in the bigs.

 

I'd rather take a risk on upside than go with guaranteed crap.

Edited March 24, 2008 by The Logan

[Tyrant]

Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher

 

Perfect world? No way. Gallagher isn't ready for a full season in the bigs.

 

I'd rather take a risk on upside than go with guaranteed crap

 

You and everyone else here.

 

Marquis is not "crap." He's probably going to be about league average, or maybe a little worse, over the course of the full season.

 

Gallagher isn't a lock to even do that.

[Clem Fandango]

Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher

 

Perfect world? No way. Gallagher isn't ready for a full season in the bigs.

 

I'd rather take a risk on upside than go with guaranteed crap

 

You and everyone else here.

 

Marquis is not "crap." He's probably going to be about league average, or maybe a little worse, over the course of the full season.

 

Gallagher isn't a lock to even do that.

 

If it doesn't work, out, in the end , the results will probably still look the same no matter who you start... "L". There is no upside to Dempster or Marquis. They're not going to come out of the gate and dominate, as if they drank some magic potion that gave them incredible skills. They're going to be mediocre or worse. Gallagher has the potential to be much better than them, if Dempster and Marquis means pretty much meaning on every 5th day the Cubs are going to give up 4 runs minimum, I'd like to see what the kid can do if given a consistent opportunity.

 

Marquis PECOTA Projection...

100IP 17GS 5.14ERA 1.50WHIP 5-5 5.1 VORP

 

Gallagher PECOTA Projection

55IP 10GS 4.98ERA 1.56WHIP 4-5 5.5 VORP

 

Yes, I know the IP and GS aren't equal, but if Gallagher isn't ready for the big leagues, why are we trotting someone out there who would likely do no better or worse than him? The difference between the two is that Gallagher has room to improve while Marquis is pretty much a lock for awfulness. Putting Gallagher out there will at least get him prepared for what he has to expect in the big leagues. Dominating AAA players isn't going to help him succeed in the big leagues. But this is all just my opinion. I just really don't like Jason Marquis

[wiumike]

Not that I care. Who knows. In a perfect world, the rotation would be closed out by Marshall and Gallagher

 

Perfect world? No way. Gallagher isn't ready for a full season in the bigs.

 

I'd rather take a risk on upside than go with guaranteed crap.

 

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of [expletive]. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

[TruffleShuffle]

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

 

awesome

[Clem Fandango]

Tommy: Let's think about this for a sec, Ted, why would somebody put a guarantee on a box? Hmmm, very interesting.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Go on, I'm listening.

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to fell all warm and toasty inside.

Ted Nelson, Customer: Yeah, makes a man feel good.

Tommy: 'Course it does. Why shouldn't it? Ya figure you put that little box under your pillow at night, the Guarantee Fairy might come by and leave a quarter, am I right, Ted?

[chuckles until he sees that Ted is not laughing too]

Ted Nelson, Customer: [impatiently] What's your point?

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

Ted Nelson, Customer: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?

Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of ****. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me.

 

awesome

 

Agreed. Nicely done, sir.

[Tracer Bullet]

If it doesn't work, out, in the end , the results will probably still look the same no matter who you start... "L".

 

Attack of the renegade commas

[Clem Fandango]

If it doesn't work, out, in the end , the results will probably still look the same no matter who you start... "L".

 

Attack of the renegade commas

 

Confounded fingers and their stupid typing