Re: The Chicago Bears Offseason Thread

[Banedon]

The injury excuse didn't mean much to me. He played like crap when he did play. Stupid decision after stupid decision.

 

So you're saying King wanted us to get a QB that makes stupid decisions to replace our starting QB that makes stupid decisions?

 

King is the only one I've seen that's down on the Bears draft. I've seen mostly B's and B+'s from most media outlets. He's the leader of the anti-Grossman bandwagon.

 

To be honest, I was disappointed they didn't draft a QB. But they weren't drafting one in the first (I do not understand why so many mocks had them doing so), and they weren't getting anybody who was going to start in 2008. I'm a firm believer in the draft a QB every year theory. Stockpile those guys as often as possible. You never know when a 4th rounder will pick up on things and become a valuable starter down the road, or even trade bait.

 

They did get a couple as undrafted free agents though...and if you aren't gonna take one in the first, and you aren't enamored with any of the remainders...

 

I think Jerry and Lovie both want to see what Rex and Kyle can do with an O-line that can protect them.

[jersey cubs fan]

They did get a couple as undrafted free agents though...and if you aren't gonna take one in the first, and you aren't enamored with any of the remainders...

 

I think Jerry and Lovie both want to see what Rex and Kyle can do with an O-line that can protect them.

 

That's all well and good. However, undrafted free agents go undrafted for a reason, and while I'd like to see what Rex and Orton can do with an improved line, I'd also like to keep the pipeline flowing. The Bears have signed lots of free agent QBs after recent drafts and haven't come close to finding even an adequate backup, let alone a potential starter. Despite the relatively glowing review of these 2 new guys, I have maybe 1% faith in either of them being anything more than the typical Bears 3rd stringer.

[RedFlash]

I don't have much of an opinion on the draft. It seems to me Jerry went a little safe early, then took big chances on injury/legal issue guys who could be very good. I was not in love with any of the QB options, but I would have liked to see him get somebody like Dixon or Woodson late. These undrafted free agents sound nice, and somebody, I believe Kiper, was really talking them up on the radio this morning. However, they are still undrafted free agents and very unlikely to have any impact in the NFL.

 

I agree. I would have like Angelo to have taken a flier on a guy like Dixon or Ainge, but I sure as heck don't blame him for passing on them. If anybody watched Instant Replay on Sunday, you would know that Angelo was NOT impressed with the QB class of 2008. My thing is there was no QB that absolutely NEEDED to have in this draft. And neither Brohm or Henne is an upgrade over what the Bears already have. If the Bears had taken Henne or Brohm we would be back here in 4 yrs, figuring out which QB the Bears should take. So Peter King's "The Bears didn't draft a QB, means they had a bad draft" is as lazy of an analysis, as I ever seen. The Bears picked up a IMMEDIATE STARTER at LT, and early contributing RB and WR in the 2nd and 3rd rds. A DT who should contribute quickly also in the 3rd They picked up nice depth at SS and TE, and perhaps an OL, provided Barton and Adams don't begin their careers on the Practice Squad. So if the only blimish the Bears had on the draft the weekend, was them not taking a QB, then they had a really good draft.

 

Williams is fine. But it's just so disappointing that Angelo put himself in the position where he was forced to draft LT, and not just LT, but the guy most likely to be able to start this year. Offensive line was such a glaring need for a long time. I don't buy for a second all the nonsense about the age suddenly catching up to the line. They were okay in 2005, started 2006 well, but really fell off as the season went along.

 

Agreed. But atleast Angelo didn't try and force one more good yr out of Brown and Miller and bring them back. At least he recognize that both guys were done as players and let 'em go. They prolly should had picked up an additional OL along with Beekman last yr. And with Tait 33 yrs old, they should have taken OL in the draft or even in the 5th rd. B/c I have no faith in the likes of Metcalf/St. Clair, and Garza.

 

The rest of the draft sounds like a bunch of special teams contributors. The safety might push Archuleta out the door, but that's not much of an accomplishment.

 

I think Steltz will surprise some people. When Kiper brought up the name of Doug Plank when Steltz was drafted, I saw that comparasion, I really did. I think with Steltz/Manning and McGowan, I think Archie should be a June casualty if not sooner.

 

I believe this draft will determine Angelo and Lovie's future employment with the Bears. If they don't bounce back with a solid season by 2009, they could both be gone before 2010. And this draft class will go a long way toward determining if either of the next two seasons are going to be successful.

 

That goes without saying. The draft is always play a factor in the coach/GM future employment.

Edited April 29, 2008 by RedFlash

[jersey cubs fan]

Regardless of whether or not Angelo was in love with the QB class of 2008, he should not have the team in a position where two struggling veterans will fight for the starting job and 2 undrafted free agents will likely fight for the 3rd spot. They needed to be drafting QBs before this year.

 

 

The future of the offensive line is going to be touch and go. It's pretty amazing they just drafted a tackle #1 but are still not anywhere close to stable. As things stand right now, they will go"

 

Williams, Beekman, Kreutz, Garza, Tait, with St. Clair and Metcalf possibly fighting for a spot. Even if Williams is a sure thing, both guard spots are questionable, and the center and right tackle are old and not what they once were. They need Beekman or one of the other youngsters to step in now, and will probably need to draft a lineman relatively high again next year. They will need to replace Tait soon, and could use an upgrade over Garza. Hopefully Kreutz has 3 more solid years, but who knows.

[jersey cubs fan]

That goes with saying. The draft is always play a factor in the coach/GM future employment.

 

Yes, but my point was that after the Super Bowl season, they seemed comfortable making off-the-wall choices and settling for depth in the draft, because they thought the team was fine for a few years. But the sharp dropoff could be a lot worse than a post Super Bowl loss hangover, and without an impact draft in 2008, this team could quickly turn bad enough to justify canning those guys. The draft always plays a factor, but they were able to get away with the busts of Grossman, Benson and others. They won't survive if their 2008 draft picks bust in a similar fashion.

[minnesotacubsfan]

That goes with saying. The draft is always play a factor in the coach/GM future employment.

 

Yes, but my point was that after the Super Bowl season, they seemed comfortable making off-the-wall choices and settling for depth in the draft, because they thought the team was fine for a few years. But the sharp dropoff could be a lot worse than a post Super Bowl loss hangover, and without an impact draft in 2008, this team could quickly turn bad enough to justify canning those guys. The draft always plays a factor, but they were able to get away with the busts of Grossman, Benson and others. They won't survive if their 2008 draft picks bust in a similar fashion.

 

it has been maddening. they claim to build through the draft, and yet the last generation of O-line had 1 home-grown talent. or maybe this "build-through-the-draft" talk is relatively recent? I hope so. that would point in the direction of some much more forward thinking. but when I see Steltz being drafted instead of one of the G's that were available, my head explodes. I seriously doubt Steltz will ever be more then a special teams guy. I would love to be wrong, but I'm not. why take a chance on him when your DB's are full of chances, and you NEED to take a chance on some O-line guys. I just dont get it.

[Wilson A2000]

On ESPN today Mel Kiper was asked who had a great draft and he first mentioned the Bears. We'll see. The 08 draft will be known as a bad aid on other past drafts, i.e. the Bears should have gotten a QB and Benson stunk which is going to set them back a few years.

[brinoch]

I think the QB talk might be overblown given the flashes Grossman has shown. I think if the gives him time, he'll be above average. I don't think Rex will ever be great, but he'll be better than most teams have. That said, I do not disagree with goony. It is important to refresh the talent pipeline at QB. I doubt the UFA's will be worth much, and if they prove to be worthless, the Bears should look to draft a QB next year REGARDLESS of how Grossman does.

[RedFlash]

I know this is slightly off-target, but I will make a bold prediction.......Marcus Monk is going to be the Bears Marques Colston. Don't believe check up both Colston and Monk's careers. Check out their 40 times, the college numbers (heck they both even missed significant time in college). Check out where they ended up being draft? Both were either the last WR/TE draft or the 2nd to last WR/TE taken in their respective drafts. And before people say Colston had Brees, remember Brees was coming off shoulder surgery, of his career yr at the time.

 

Now, I am going to lower my expections on Monk abit, but Monk has definately traveled a similar path as Colston. Here's to having the new Colston.

[rawaction]

Updated free agent signing list for the Bears:

 

OT Cody Balogh, Montana

CB Trey Brown, UCLA

DE Joe Clermond, Pittsburgh

DT David Faaeteete, Oregon

WR Curtis Hamilton, Western Kentucky

QB Caleb Hanie, Colorado State

QB Nick Hill, Southern Illinois

PK Shane Longest, St. Xavier

CB Leslie Majors, Indiana

DE Nick Osborn, San Diego State

 

Leslie! He's a solid corner. Probably not going to make the roster, as he doesn't play ST well from what I saw at IU. He got picked on a lot because he was opposite Tracy Porter who was a great college CB. Has all the skills, just very undersized and a couple steps too slow.

 

I really like Caleb Hanie also.

[rawaction]

I think the QB talk might be overblown given the flashes Grossman has shown. I think if the gives him time, he'll be above average. I don't think Rex will ever be great, but he'll be better than most teams have. That said, I do not disagree with goony. It is important to refresh the talent pipeline at QB. I doubt the UFA's will be worth much, and if they prove to be worthless, the Bears should look to draft a QB next year REGARDLESS of how Grossman does.

 

A couple things. Rex is on a 1-year deal. If he reaches his potential, he could easily walk away. Granted, he's likely to give the Bears a discount for being the only people on Earth who believed in him, but it's not like he's locked up for years to come.

 

Secondly, you rarely see an above average QB allowed to reach unrestricted free agency. Teams don't allow good QBs to leave unless they are well past their prime or coming off a major injury (Brees, Culpepper).

 

And of course, I agree about the pipeline thing. I wanted a QB drafted. Josh Johnson was very intriguing to me, but he needs a lot of teaching/coaching. QB coaching is not a Bears strength. Brohm and Booty were guys I wanted simply because they are the only 2 I felt could legitimately compete in 08 because they do have the basics down to be NFL QBs.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I think the QB talk might be overblown given the flashes Grossman has shown. I think if the gives him time, he'll be above average. I don't think Rex will ever be great, but he'll be better than most teams have. That said, I do not disagree with goony. It is important to refresh the talent pipeline at QB. I doubt the UFA's will be worth much, and if they prove to be worthless, the Bears should look to draft a QB next year REGARDLESS of how Grossman does.

 

A couple things. Rex is on a 1-year deal. If he reaches his potential, he could easily walk away. Granted, he's likely to give the Bears a discount for being the only people on Earth who believed in him, but it's not like he's locked up for years to come.

 

Secondly, you rarely see an above average QB allowed to reach unrestricted free agency. Teams don't allow good QBs to leave unless they are well past their prime or coming off a major injury (Brees, Culpepper).

 

And of course, I agree about the pipeline thing. I wanted a QB drafted. Josh Johnson was very intriguing to me, but he needs a lot of teaching/coaching. QB coaching is not a Bears strength. Brohm and Booty were guys I wanted simply because they are the only 2 I felt could legitimately compete in 08 because they do have the basics down to be NFL QBs.

 

I wasn't surprised the Bears didnt draft a QB past the 3rd, and was worried they might bhave taken Brohm in the 2nd. I think Brohm has a future, but not with us. who knows. QB's are such a crapshot. undrafted QB's becomes starters just like drafted ones, although it becomes much more difficult to predict. having said that, I didnt really like any of the QB's in this draft other then Brohm, who I think has the best shot (excluding Matt Ryan). I guess any QB without a strong arm scares me abit, call it the "Shane Matthews" factor.

[YearofDaCubs]

My prediction:

 

Williams, Forte, and some other O-Line guy, in that order.

Wow, pretty damn good prediction.

[jersey cubs fan]

I think the QB talk might be overblown given the flashes Grossman has shown. I think if the gives him time, he'll be above average. I don't think Rex will ever be great, but he'll be better than most teams have. That said, I do not disagree with goony. It is important to refresh the talent pipeline at QB. I doubt the UFA's will be worth much, and if they prove to be worthless, the Bears should look to draft a QB next year REGARDLESS of how Grossman does.

 

A couple things. Rex is on a 1-year deal. If he reaches his potential, he could easily walk away. Granted, he's likely to give the Bears a discount for being the only people on Earth who believed in him, but it's not like he's locked up for years to come.

 

Secondly, you rarely see an above average QB allowed to reach unrestricted free agency. Teams don't allow good QBs to leave unless they are well past their prime or coming off a major injury (Brees, Culpepper).

 

So, how quick may Angelo's trigger finger be if he considers resigning Rex? If he has a decent training camp, and starts out playing fine (similar to his late season games and the Jets game in 2006), does he consider extending him before the end of the season? If he somehow catches fire I can only assume he'll get a big contract. And of course, if he stinks, he's not getting anything.

 

It probably depends not just on Rex's play, but the team's record. If Rex is decent, but the team is losing, there won't be a rush. If Rex is decent and the Bears are in playoff contention, their will be some incentive to lock him up.

[YearofDaCubs]

It was kind of a bland draft for us. Angelo didn't get silly reaching for unknown players as in the past. Let's face it folks, the Bears want to win now, they don't have time to draft a QB and WR and have them run the show within 2 years. I think a lot of the Qbs available in this draft class had a lot of ? marks. It was a weak draft class and I have no problem them drafting a good one next year. We needed a LT and a RB over a WR and QB. Far more important to us for the first two years. I'm ok with the draft.

[jaydee]

I can't stand people that take the opportunity of the draft to just bash Grossman. And if Angelo thought it wasn't a very good QB class, why should he waste a pick on them? He signed two guys as free agents, thats good enough for me (Kiper was on ESPN and he seemed really high on the guy out of Colorado State). Drafting a QB is a crap shoot no matter who you are, unless you end up with a Peyton Manning type prospect of course. The fact is that a ton starting QBs in the NFL were undrafted FAs, or very late round picks. Why waste picks on a guy like Dixon? He has a higher chance of busting than if you spend it on a DT or a safety etc.

[jersey cubs fan]

I can't stand people that take the opportunity of the draft to just bash Grossman. And if Angelo thought it wasn't a very good QB class, why should he waste a pick on them? He signed two guys as free agents, thats good enough for me (Kiper was on ESPN and he seemed really high on the guy out of Colorado State). Drafting a QB is a crap shoot no matter who you are, unless you end up with a Peyton Manning type prospect of course. The fact is that a ton starting QBs in the NFL were undrafted FAs, or very late round picks. Why waste picks on a guy like Dixon? He has a higher chance of busting than if you spend it on a DT or a safety etc.

 

I don't think it's really a crapshoot. It's not science, but some organizations and coaches/executives are better at finding and developing QB talent than others. The Bears, Angelo, Lovie, Turner and the gang are very bad at it. I'm not sure a QB has a higher chance of busting than any random player at any other position late in the draft.

[rawaction]

Kiper says that Hanie is the best UDFA QB, and that he is "similar to Brohm and Henne" and can start in the NFL in 2 years. He's similar to Henne is size 6'2", 230lbs. Has a strong arm and is pretty athletic. Hanie completed over 64% of his passes last year, but threw a crapload of INTs. His team went 2-9, against an also-ran schedule, so it's not like he had a lot of talent around him.

 

The winner of Hanie and Hill will be the #3 QB, loser goes to the practice squad.

[jersey cubs fan]

Kiper says that Hanie is the best UDFA QB, and that he is "similar to Brohm and Henne" and can start in the NFL in 2 years. He's similar to Henne is size 6'2", 230lbs. Has a strong arm and is pretty athletic. Hanie completed over 64% of his passes last year, but threw a crapload of INTs. His team went 2-9, against an also-ran schedule, so it's not like he had a lot of talent around him.

 

The winner of Hanie and Hill will be the #3 QB, loser goes to the practice squad.

 

Angelo has mentioned 4 QBs on the roster on more than one occasion. It would be a waste, but could it happen?

[jaydee]

I can't stand people that take the opportunity of the draft to just bash Grossman. And if Angelo thought it wasn't a very good QB class, why should he waste a pick on them? He signed two guys as free agents, thats good enough for me (Kiper was on ESPN and he seemed really high on the guy out of Colorado State). Drafting a QB is a crap shoot no matter who you are, unless you end up with a Peyton Manning type prospect of course. The fact is that a ton starting QBs in the NFL were undrafted FAs, or very late round picks. Why waste picks on a guy like Dixon? He has a higher chance of busting than if you spend it on a DT or a safety etc.

 

I don't think it's really a crapshoot. It's not science, but some organizations and coaches/executives are better at finding and developing QB talent than others. The Bears, Angelo, Lovie, Turner and the gang are very bad at it. I'm not sure a QB has a higher chance of busting than any random player at any other position late in the draft.

 

Who is it that are better than others?

[Guest]

Kiper says that Hanie is the best UDFA QB, and that he is "similar to Brohm and Henne" and can start in the NFL in 2 years. He's similar to Henne is size 6'2", 230lbs. Has a strong arm and is pretty athletic. Hanie completed over 64% of his passes last year, but threw a crapload of INTs. His team went 2-9, against an also-ran schedule, so it's not like he had a lot of talent around him.

 

The winner of Hanie and Hill will be the #3 QB, loser goes to the practice squad.

 

Angelo has mentioned 4 QBs on the roster on more than one occasion. It would be a waste, but could it happen?

 

Ugh, that would be poor usage of the roster.

[jersey cubs fan]

Rosenbloom:

 

Bears will get no quarter till they get a quarterback

Everybody has an opinion on the Bears' draft, and some have video. ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper, f’rinstance, is drooling over the Bears' draft. I mean, he's all over it like stupid on Dubya.

 

In a face-to-face thingy with Todd McShay of Scouts, Inc., on "SportsCenter," Kiper raved about the Bears taking left tackle Chris Williams in the first round, running back Matt Forte in the second, wideout Earl Bennett in the third and defensive tackle-slash-reprobate Marcus Harrison in the fourth. Kiper concludes his analysis with the idea that the Bears "did a real good job of helping out the signal-caller."

 

And of course that's the flaw right there. The signal-caller is the most important position on the field, only the Bears don't know it. Or don't know what to do about it. Yo, Mel, helping out the signal-caller is what you do when you're too lame to make getting the right signal-caller a priority.

 

I love Kiper and his knowledge (not to mention his hair), but for his sake and especially the brainiacs at Halas Hall, I'm going to say this slowly: Quarterback ... first ... everything else ... after. In. That. Order.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

McShay opines that the Steelers had a better draft, starting with Illinois running back Rashard Mendenhall, a running back the Bears passed on even though running back was just as glaring a need for the Bears as tackle, quarterback, head coach and general manager.

 

I disagree with Rosenbloom. QB is the most important single position on the field. But, as a group, offensive line is more important. An all-time great like Manning is the exception, but more often than not, no matter how good your QB is, he can't do anything without a quality line. The difference between Tackle, and QB/RB/everything lese is simple. The Bears didn't even have a body to fill the tackle position. They actually do have guys who could fill QB/RB and everything else. Tackle was a blatantly obvious priority, and to criticize them for taking one first is asinine. Criticize them for being in a position where they had to take tackle first. But make no mistake, they had to take tackle first.

 

Furthermore, I think it's much smarter to build everything first, and then install the QB. Finding a franchise QB with nothing around him could easily ruin that franchise QB. Teams can succeed, albeit for brief timeframes, with everything else being good and the QB being weak. But no team has gone far with a crappy team led by a great QB.

[Guest]

Yeah, the criticism for not getting a QB is bad but criticizing the Bears for getting an offensive tackle over a quarterback? Ridiculous. Who should the Bears have gotten at 14 anyways? Brohm or Flacco? Dumb.

[rawaction]

Sounds like everybody wants the Bears to take a QB for the sake of taking a QB. That's not a good idea in the first 4 rounds of the draft. After that, you get a bunch of "projects" and again, the Bears don't have a track record for developing QBs.

 

As for the franchise QB being most important....there are examples both ways. I think you can look at the Giants as a team that drafted their franchise QB and built a team around him. The Steelers did it the opposite way in their SB year a couple years back.

 

To borrow a line from Goony, if the Bears were a QB away from being an elite team, then you most certainly trade up, overpay and/or overdraft just to get a QB. But the Bears weren't in that position. I would have liked the Bears to draft a QB, but Ryan wasn't an option. Flacco would have been an overdraft at 14. Henne has too many questions to pick in the 2nd. Booty probably had too little upside to draft before the 3rd. Every other QB was too much of a project to matter either way. The only question to me was Brohm worth the #44 pick. I don't fault the Bears for determining he wasn't worth it.

[CuseCubFan69]

Sounds like everybody wants the Bears to take a QB for the sake of taking a QB. That's not a good idea in the first 4 rounds of the draft. After that, you get a bunch of "projects" and again, the Bears don't have a track record for developing QBs.

 

As for the franchise QB being most important....there are examples both ways. I think you can look at the Giants as a team that drafted their franchise QB and built a team around him. The Steelers did it the opposite way in their SB year a couple years back.

 

To borrow a line from Goony, if the Bears were a QB away from being an elite team, then you most certainly trade up, overpay and/or overdraft just to get a QB. But the Bears weren't in that position. I would have liked the Bears to draft a QB, but Ryan wasn't an option. Flacco would have been an overdraft at 14. Henne has too many questions to pick in the 2nd. Booty probably had too little upside to draft before the 3rd. Every other QB was too much of a project to matter either way. The only question to me was Brohm worth the #44 pick. I don't fault the Bears for determining he wasn't worth it.

 

Brohm has hurt his knee once, maybe twice he's had surgery on it. I don't think he'd be comfortable behind your line and the offensive scheme the Bears run unless they've gone to more of a short pass attack.