Hey Cuse, Here are your numbers

[WilcoFan]

My position is that IMB did all his leg work.

 

Well, that's not really the point.

 

I would say, that to an awful lot of people posting here that legwork should not have been necessary. A lot of people considered your position ridiculous, and they were all correct. Maybe they were correct by coincidence, or 'for the wrong reasons' or something, but they were right.

 

Dusty Baker refuses to pinch hit for Carlos Zambrano late in a close game with runners on base (in a CLEAR situation that calls for a pinch hitter) against Houston because "he's got a gut feeling." Zambrano hits a home run. Dusty, therefore, made the right decision, correct?

 

The reasons are as important as the conclusion, because the reasons develop the truth. Being right by coincidence is not really something to brag about.

[Geech]

Dusty Baker refuses to pinch hit for Carlos Zambrano late in a close game with runners on base (in a CLEAR situation that calls for a pinch hitter) against Houston because "he's got a gut feeling." Zambrano hits a home run. Dusty, therefore, made the right decision, correct?

 

The reasons are as important as the conclusion, because the reasons develop the truth. Being right by coincidence is not really something to brag about.

 

Dusty's opinion is completely valid. Just because your statistics don't account for it, you don't have any cause to attack it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

this whole thread begs the question, why cant we have a legitimate discussion on baseball without it becoming "I'm right, you're wrong!!"? are we really that immature around here?

[CuseCubFan69]

My position is that IMB did all his leg work.

 

Well, that's not really the point.

 

I would say, that to an awful lot of people posting here that legwork should not have been necessary. A lot of people considered your position ridiculous, and they were all correct. Maybe they were correct by coincidence, or 'for the wrong reasons' or something, but they were right.

 

The difference being that IMB put out proof while many others put out an opinion just like I did. Didn't you find the legwork beneficial? I did. When someone says "It's because you hate Prior", right there they are giving an opinion which is wrong, I don't hate the man. I would have loved to see him pitch and be successful for the Cubs. Someone sees that sound bite and then they use that as fact when it's not. Imagine the arrogance of someone telling you what you do and don't think? That's when just being right is all that matters to them instead of finding the right answer. Also, when someone posts that I said Prior is a "head case", what is that suppose to mean? I never once said he was a head case but yet the sound bites continue. I simply said he seemed to struggle when he is getting scored on and giving up 4 or more runs and abucks only statistic proof was how well Prior pitched with men on base, which is not what I said. So as I said, IMB proved me wrong.

[WilcoFan]

Dusty Baker refuses to pinch hit for Carlos Zambrano late in a close game with runners on base (in a CLEAR situation that calls for a pinch hitter) against Houston because "he's got a gut feeling." Zambrano hits a home run. Dusty, therefore, made the right decision, correct?

 

The reasons are as important as the conclusion, because the reasons develop the truth. Being right by coincidence is not really something to brag about.

 

Dusty's opinion is completely valid. Just because your statistics don't account for it, you don't have any cause to attack it.

 

Wow, gotta love the sarcasm approach. Set me straight. As I wrote in another thread, "attack the post, not the poster" apparently only applies to direct shots, not passive aggressive condescending remarks like the above.

 

No matter-But if you're going to sarcastically attack me, at least read Godel's theory and get it (and my opinion) correct. No where did I ever state anything close to what you wrote above.

[CuseCubFan69]

this whole thread begs the question, why cant we have a legitimate discussion on baseball without it becoming "I'm right, you're wrong!!"? are we really that immature around here?

 

I've already admitted I was wrong. Don't ask me why this is continuing.

[Geech]

Wow, gotta love the sarcasm approach. Set me straight. As I wrote in another thread, "attack the post, not the poster" apparently only applies to direct shots, not passive aggressive condescending remarks like the above.

 

No matter-But if you're going to sarcastically attack me, at least read Godel's theory and get it (and my opinion) correct. No where did I ever state anything close to what you wrote above.

 

My interpretation of your posts is a completely valid opinion and you have no basis to discard it.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Wow, gotta love the sarcasm approach. Set me straight. As I wrote in another thread, "attack the post, not the poster" apparently only applies to direct shots, not passive aggressive condescending remarks like the above.

 

No matter-But if you're going to sarcastically attack me, at least read Godel's theory and get it (and my opinion) correct. No where did I ever state anything close to what you wrote above.

 

My interpretation of your posts is a completely valid opinion and you have no basis to discard it.

 

this is true, and the same goes for everyone here. but you can always ask for a clarification without completely discarding it.

[WilcoFan]

Wow, gotta love the sarcasm approach. Set me straight. As I wrote in another thread, "attack the post, not the poster" apparently only applies to direct shots, not passive aggressive condescending remarks like the above.

 

No matter-But if you're going to sarcastically attack me, at least read Godel's theory and get it (and my opinion) correct. No where did I ever state anything close to what you wrote above.

 

My interpretation of your posts is a completely valid opinion and you have no basis to discard it.

 

And the strategy of "act like a fourth grader who just repeats the same line over and over so that he can annoy the adult" wins out. I relent-you were right along along. That's pretty much all you want out of this discussion, and what's clearly more important to you anyway, so you should be pacified.

 

Way to prove me wrong. You did an excellent job. Congratulations. At least now I know which posts to ignore.

[wolf stansson]

WTG, GEECH! Winner, winner!

[Geech]

Thanks, everybody. There are so many people I need to thank I don't know where to even begin. Cuse for starting and maintaining this argument in the face of so much resistance. IMB for making this post. This victory is half yours, dude, I couldn't have done it without you.

 

I'll remember and cherish this day for the rest of my life.

[wolf stansson]

[sweeping music]This is Geech's first Academy nomination and first win in the category of "Best Unending Argument Ender." Congratulations, Geech![/sweeping music]

[minnesotacubsfan]

Best Unending Argument Ender.

 

hardly ;)

[abuck1220]

My position is that IMB did all his leg work.

 

Well, that's not really the point.

 

I would say, that to an awful lot of people posting here that legwork should not have been necessary. A lot of people considered your position ridiculous, and they were all correct. Maybe they were correct by coincidence, or 'for the wrong reasons' or something, but they were right.

 

The difference being that IMB put out proof while many others put out an opinion just like I did.

 

again, i had proof. also (again) your position was so ridiculous i didn't want to research it.

 

Didn't you find the legwork beneficial? I did.

 

yes, i thought it was hilarious.

 

When someone says "It's because you hate Prior",

 

i didn't say that. i said you were wrong because you were wrong.

[CuseCubFan69]

Come on abuck, you can do better than that.

[abuck1220]

wish i could say the same for you.

 

but i've seen both these prior threads.

[USSoccer]

All I have to add is that it's very, very sad that people are warping how the scientific method works.

 

Oh, and nice work, IMB.

[RynoRules]

Sheesh, you can get away with a lot around here these days.

[WilcoFan]

All I have to add is that it's very, very sad that people are warping how the scientific method works.

 

"People"=me

 

And you're wrong. But that's okay. I'll leave it at that.

[USSoccer]

All I have to add is that it's very, very sad that people are warping how the scientific method works.

 

"People"=me

 

And you're wrong. But that's okay. I'll leave it at that.

 

No, it's more than you, and no, you're still wrong. Your version of the method basically is tantamount to flinging crap against a wall and making people prove it wrong.

 

Proper hypotheses involve more than just wild guesses and gut feelings. They have to be based in some sort of fact or logic, otherwise they are not hypotheses. Then they are just guesses. And guessing things is fine, but it needs to be called what it is. Cuse had a guess, a feeling, an opinion. Most of us thought it was wrong based on the logic itself. In the scientific community, that's enough. If the methodology is ridiculous, that's usually where guesses end. But IMB did the research, which is great for him, and the research confirmed that the guess was just that. A guess. A feeling. An opinion.

 

A hypothesis would have been like "Mark Prior's career WHIP (or whatever) with RISP (or whatever) is X. Based on that, I would expect him to be worse than league average in pressure situations after giving up more than Y runs. If that is true, it would show that Mark Prior is a poor pressure pitcher, subject to rattling easily once he's tagged for Y runs."

 

This isn't personal. It's about having a pet peeve of people treating opinions as something more than they really are.

[WilcoFan]

My initial response was unnecessarily terse, and for that I apologize-carryover from the earlier ridiculousness. I guess I just disagree with the level to which you think his opinion was absurd. I'm just going to leave it there, though. I wrote that i was going to leave this thread alone before-I should have stuck to that. No hard feelings...

[hardcorecubfan]

I applaud imb for the stats, that is what this site was originally based on, an alternative to cubs.com, as far as differing of opinion stats v. gut feelings I love the arguments/discussions it makes baseball baseball