Rollins gets NL MVP

[Mephistopheles]

The NL didn't have as clear a winner as the AL.

I know, but Matt Holliday should've been clear enough.

 

I'd give it to Wright easily before Holliday.

 

nah hollidays +10 defense gives him an advantage easily. best player on the best team. best player in the last month while team was unstoppable.

 

shoulda been a slam dunk mvp candidate for the statheads and writers. Its too bad the writers are about as dumb as cardinal fans.

[haltz]

Easily? Wright was at least +5 on defense.

 

And Ordonez was the AL MVP? Where are you getting your defensive numbers?

[abuck1220]

Carlos Marmol may have only gotten one vote, but thats one more vote than Will Ohman will ever get.

 

them's fighting words.

[Mephistopheles]

ive explained this a lot...

 

 

ummm basically win value based on runs output for team. pujols was #1 for the NL you know. well #2 if you include pitchers. (that makes Holliday third)

[haltz]

If you've explained it lately, then I missed it, but I think I remember that.

 

I'd rather just base it on a slwts style contribution, but I keep feeling like I'm more and more in the minority with that.

[Mephistopheles]

there should be scaling towards a team. its value to a team award.

[Mephistopheles]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3106401

 

lol espn

Edited November 22, 2007 by NCCubFan
Add URL tag so link pops up in new window

[badnews]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

If we're complaining about non-playoff MVPs, how about Derrek Lee losing to Pujols in 2005. Terrific.

[Outshined_One]

there should be scaling towards a team. its value to a team award.

 

How do you differentiate value to a team from how good a player is, if you do that at all? Is this an argument along the lines of, "David Ortiz doesn't deserve the MVP because he has a number of good hitters and defenders surrounding him, meaning the Red Sox could live without him" or leaning more towards, "Hanley Ramirez deserves the MVP because the Marlins would likely be the worst team in baseball if a league-average player was at SS instead of him"?

[Outshined_One]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3106401

 

lol espn

 

Which of those guys belong to the BBWAA? I'm pretty sure Gammons, Neyer, Stark, and Rogers are in it, but I'm not 100% sure about everyone else.

[Guest]

How do you differentiate value to a team from how good a player is, if you do that at all? Is this an argument along the lines of, "David Ortiz doesn't deserve the MVP because he has a number of good hitters and defenders surrounding him, meaning the Red Sox could live without him" or leaning more towards, "Hanley Ramirez deserves the MVP because the Marlins would likely be the worst team in baseball if a league-average player was at SS instead of him"?

 

Personally, I use the former which is a reason why I don't think that Rollins should have been the MVP.

[badnews]

Personally, I use the former which is a reason why I don't think that Rollins should have been the MVP.

 

But then Jeter shouldn't have been the AL MVP when people thought he should've won it instead of Morneau.

[haltz]

there should be scaling towards a team. its value to a team award.

Carlos Pena got robbed.

 

Seriously though, I don't think a player should be punished or rewarded because he happens to be on a better or worse team. And is it "value to a team" or "value to his team?"

Edited November 21, 2007 by haltz

[badnews]

Carlos Pena got robbed.

 

No, Jim Thome got robbed. Thome was on a team that scored fewer runs.

 

Since the Diamondbacks had the worst offense of any team that made the playoffs, that means Eric Byrnes should be the MVP.

[haltz]

Thome was like 20 runs worse than Pena. Plus, I was joking. I know Meph has his metric and I'm sure it says Ordonez was most valuable for whatever reason.

 

I just disagree that the award necessitates team scaling.

[badnews]

I know you were joking. I agree with your position for the most part. Also, I think people have a tendency to cherrypick certain metrics and ignore others when it favors them, and some of the conclusions I just tend to find difficult to believe, like Sammy Sosa being an awesome right fielder in 2004. I'm not saying I have the eyes of a scout and I saw every play in relation to every other or anything, but it's hard to believe I was watching awesome defense that year.

[DivineBovine]

I didn't believe in east coast bias until I moved out of the east coast. I believe it now. Rollins was over hyped all year, and should have been third at best.

[OleMissCub]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

[Derwood]

Personally, I use the former which is a reason why I don't think that Rollins should have been the MVP.

 

But then Jeter shouldn't have been the AL MVP when people thought he should've won it instead of Morneau.

 

except people thought Hafner should have won over both those

[javy knows my name]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

[rocket]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

 

rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556

rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659

[MSG T]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

 

rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556

rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659

 

 

Not trying to start an arguement, but how many games did Rollins play in PP, and who did he hit against. It's like saying Player X had a career line of .315/.408/.495 at Wrigley before being signed by the Cubs, problem is he played 8 games there and hit against Cubs pitching. With the Cubs he put up .265/.335/.406 at Wrigley. Now, that's a made up player, but I've heard things like that mentioned on enough Cubs broadcasts in my life to make me cringe.

[VanceJergins]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

 

rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556

rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659

 

 

Not trying to start an arguement, but how many games did Rollins play in PP, and who did he hit against. It's like saying Player X had a career line of .315/.408/.495 at Wrigley before being signed by the Cubs, problem is he played 8 games there and hit against Cubs pitching. With the Cubs he put up .265/.335/.406 at Wrigley. Now, that's a made up player, but I've heard things like that mentioned on enough Cubs broadcasts in my life to make me cringe.

 

If I remember correctly, Pierre had really good stats at Wrigley before 06.

[MSG T]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

 

rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556

rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659

 

 

Not trying to start an arguement, but how many games did Rollins play in PP, and who did he hit against. It's like saying Player X had a career line of .315/.408/.495 at Wrigley before being signed by the Cubs, problem is he played 8 games there and hit against Cubs pitching. With the Cubs he put up .265/.335/.406 at Wrigley. Now, that's a made up player, but I've heard things like that mentioned on enough Cubs broadcasts in my life to make me cringe.

 

If I remember correctly, Pierre had really good stats at Wrigley before 06.

 

He wouldn't be the first guy to put up good numbers at Wrigley for someone else and suck there with the Cubs.

[rocket]

I don't think anyone on the Rockies with the heavy home/road splits should be a slam dunk for MVP. I like Rollins' positional value better. I don't like the Coors advantage so I'm happy to see Holliday "screwed."

 

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year.

Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock:

Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player...

:-&

 

rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556

rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659

 

 

Not trying to start an arguement, but how many games did Rollins play in PP, and who did he hit against. It's like saying Player X had a career line of .315/.408/.495 at Wrigley before being signed by the Cubs, problem is he played 8 games there and hit against Cubs pitching. With the Cubs he put up .265/.335/.406 at Wrigley. Now, that's a made up player, but I've heard things like that mentioned on enough Cubs broadcasts in my life to make me cringe.

 

oh, i know. i don't think rollins would be nearly as good with a full season in pro player stadium. but in rollins defense, his home/road numbers aren't that different. still not close to mvp-worthy, but i don't think playing in philly had a HUGE effect on him this season. i just thought rollins split at dolphins stadium was interesting.