Why are people in such a hurry to get Theriot out of town?

[Tracer Bullet]

At the age Ronny was having a horrible year in the majors, Theriot was slugging 296 in a split season between A and AA.

 

But Theriot's a little white guy that gets dirty, has grit, plays the right way, and all those other cliches that people use to help explain their inexplicable preferences.

[shnsajax]

At the age Ronny was having a horrible year in the majors, Theriot was slugging 296 in a split season between A and AA.

 

But Theriot's a little white guy that gets dirty, has grit, plays the right way, and all those other cliches that people use to help explain their inexplicable preferences.

 

Theriot is kind of like "Rudy", you really like his heart and that fact that he has made it this far but when you look up and down he is the weakest link. Cedeno should win the job over him in ST, but he has choked up the few small chances he has had.

[CubsInNC]

I don't understand how so many (actually, the vast majority of) people are willing to brush aside the success Ronny has had at AAA at a young age based on a bad year last year in the majors and a handful of AB's this year.

 

Nobody is denying that Ronny had a bad 2006 (at age 23) in the big leagues, but he has absolutely crushed AAA pitching for both of the last two years.

 

I'm not saying he's a great option, but I'd still rather see him play next year than Theriot if it's down to one or the other.

 

I'm not trying to say that he is or will be, but the color in this cubbie kool-aid comes from Roosevelt Brown. Mixed success at low levels in the minors, and much greater success at AAA. Even a flash of brilliance in a short stint in the majors (albeit Rosie was older, and Ronnie has a higher ceiling). Rosie Brown, Gary Scott, Kevin Orie, et. al, ruined several generations of Cubs fans view of how our prospects might actually do in the bigs.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Cedeno should win the job over him in ST, but he has choked up the few small chances he has had.

 

Ronny has been given 688 MLB ABs and he's put up a horrific .247/.277/.349 with disappointing defense. I don't think it's fair to say he's only had a few small chances. I agree he should be given a shot in ST but the Cubs better have a solid plan B.

[BDWeav71]

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

Please...list these "facts" for me.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

Please...list these "facts" for me.

 

 

Theriot 684 ABs...

 

 

.276/.341/.379

Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS

9 errors in 110 games at SS

 

 

Cedeno 688 ABs...

 

.247/.277/.349

Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS

26 errors in 178 games at SS

 

 

Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

[Guest]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

 

 

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

 

 

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS.

 

Admittedly I haven't watched much of Theriot's defense but his SS metrics on BR looks merely below avg. FWIW, to a lesser extent I think you could say the same thing about Murton's hitting and defense.

 

I'm not championing Theriot but I don't entirely understand the love for Murton and Cedeno. I think they are interesting but that's about it. I'm a little surprised how some posters reacted to skepticism about them

Edited October 15, 2007 by CardsFanInChiTown

[B]

Because he is white. He wore down in the summer heat. We need to replace him with a darker player who can handle the heat better.

[Guest]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

 

 

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS.

 

Admittedly I haven't watched much of Theriot's defense but his SS metrics on BR looks merely below avg. FWIW, to a lesser extent I think you could say the same thing about Murton's hitting and defense.

 

I'm not championing Theriot but I don't entirely understand the love for Murton and Cedeno. I think they are interesting but that's about it. I'm a little surprised how some posters reacted to skepticism about them

 

Isn't that what I said? He is below average? My problem is that Cedeno is likely to be better both offensively and defensively - he should have played this year to see if he could be better than he was in his first go around. Murton will not hit enough to be a corner outfielder. He does, however, provide something the Cubs desperately need, which is the ability to not make outs. In my opinion, Murton would be ok if the Cubs had better production at CF, 2b, or SS.

 

One thing I find amusing in these discussions is how some people have no trouble dismissing DeRosa's improvement yet give Theriot no chance to improve. The bad news is DeRosa could very easily fall off a cliff in the next year or two - more likely than Theriot improving.

 

Basically, there are holes all over this team and instead of giving young players a chance to see if they can fill them, the Cubs use veterans. This has been a theme with this organization for a long time.

[Mizzou]

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones.

 

Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

[Tracer Bullet]

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

Please...list these "facts" for me.

 

 

Theriot 684 ABs...

 

 

.276/.341/.379

Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS

9 errors in 110 games at SS

 

 

Cedeno 688 ABs...

 

.247/.277/.349

Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS

26 errors in 178 games at SS

 

 

Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin.

 

Both sucked. One sucked a little more than the other, but both sucked. To say that Theriot significantly improved the Cubs chances to win (which isn't what you said, but it's implied in that statement) is just wrong. At their level of suck, the difference between Theriot and Cedeno isn't going to mean much in the W column. And one's significantly younger and put up significantly better #s in AAA, so it's more likely that he's going to improve than Theriot. Nothing's certain, so you play the percentages and they favor Cedeno at SS (as between these two, as many have said, it's not like we're suggesting benching or trading away a solid starter to give Cedeno a chance here).

 

I don't know how you can come here and argue with a straight face that the #s of a 23-year-old should be compared evenly to those of a 27-year-old when you're trying to determine who should get more playing time going forward.

[Tracer Bullet]

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones.

 

Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

 

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS.

 

PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Isn't that what I said? He is below average? My problem is that Cedeno is likely to be better both offensively and defensively - he should have played this year to see if he could be better than he was in his first go around. Murton will not hit enough to be a corner outfielder. He does, however, provide something the Cubs desperately need, which is the ability to not make outs. In my opinion, Murton would be ok if the Cubs had better production at CF, 2b, or SS.

 

One thing I find amusing in these discussions is how some people have no trouble dismissing DeRosa's improvement yet give Theriot no chance to improve. The bad news is DeRosa could very easily fall off a cliff in the next year or two - more likely than Theriot improving.

 

Basically, there are holes all over this team and instead of giving young players a chance to see if they can fill them, the Cubs use veterans. This has been a theme with this organization for a long time.

 

 

In your earlier post you said he's a 2B but judging him from his SS fielding stats that's not the case. He's been better than Cedeno.

 

As for Murton, a .352 OPB isn't all that great for a LFer. I actually like Murton but I think it's reasonable to question if he can hack it as a full time player.

[Mizzou]

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones.

 

Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

 

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS.

 

PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one.

AND HE WAS 22 WHEN HE PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN THE MINORS THE YEAR BEFORE THAT. Did he suddenly forget how to hit because he aged a year? I don't care how young he was. He sucked. This is a classic case of a guy who can't hit major league pitching.

[Tracer Bullet]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

 

 

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS.

 

Admittedly I haven't watched much of Theriot's defense but his SS metrics on BR looks merely below avg. FWIW, to a lesser extent I think you could say the same thing about Murton's hitting and defense.

 

I'm not championing Theriot but I don't entirely understand the love for Murton and Cedeno. I think they are interesting but that's about it. I'm a little surprised how some posters reacted to skepticism about them

 

We're Cubs fans, what do you expect us to think? I'm sure you have no love for Cards minor leaguers. You probably write email after email to Walt begging him to add a guy like Jones, Floyd, or Theriot to block the guys in the system that have some promise.

 

Murton and Cedeno have put up some really good numbers in the minors. When you're trying to determine if a guy is going to have success in the majors, success in the minors is a fairly good indicator (failsafe? Not at all, but as between a minor leaguer with 2 good seasons at AAA - at 22 and 24 - and a minor league with average or worse numbers in the minors, up to age 26, I'll take the former).

 

As many have written, though it hasn't sunken in, we're not advocating benching Babe Ruth or ARod to get these guys into the game. By and large, the guys playing ahead of Cedeno and Murton have been much older than they are and fallen somewhere between average and horrible. Given the choice between playing a relatively young guy with great AAA numbers and guys with bad AAA numbers or old and clearly declining players, I don't see how you can fault people for wanting to give the young guys chances.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

Please...list these "facts" for me.

 

 

Theriot 684 ABs...

 

 

.276/.341/.379

Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS

9 errors in 110 games at SS

 

 

Cedeno 688 ABs...

 

.247/.277/.349

Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS

26 errors in 178 games at SS

 

 

Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin.

 

Both sucked. One sucked a little more than the other, but both sucked. To say that Theriot significantly improved the Cubs chances to win (which isn't what you said, but it's implied in that statement) is just wrong. At their level of suck, the difference between Theriot and Cedeno isn't going to mean much in the W column. And one's significantly younger and put up significantly better #s in AAA, so it's more likely that he's going to improve than Theriot. Nothing's certain, so you play the percentages and they favor Cedeno at SS (as between these two, as many have said, it's not like we're suggesting benching or trading away a solid starter to give Cedeno a chance here).

 

I don't know how you can come here and argue with a straight face that the #s of a 23-year-old should be compared evenly to those of a 27-year-old when you're trying to determine who should get more playing time going forward.

 

 

I think a 64 point difference in OBP in almost 700 ABs is a significant difference and would certainly make a difference in the W column.

 

Here's the question I answered:

 

 

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

He was only referring to what has happened. Not what will happen in the future. The fact is Theroit hasn't completely sucked and he's been much better than Cedeno. Like I said before, Ronny has more upside but teh Cubs better have a solid plan B.

[Tracer Bullet]

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones.

 

Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

 

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS.

 

PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one.

AND HE WAS 22 WHEN HE PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN THE MINORS THE YEAR BEFORE THAT. Did he suddenly forget how to hit because he aged a year? I don't care how young he was. He sucked. This is a classic case of a guy who can't hit major league pitching.

 

You're really this dense? He was 24 last year and put up great numbers. Maybe he suddenly learned how to hit again!

 

If Cedeno had gone down to Iowa last year and continued to suck, I would have written him off. He showed very little in his year with the Cubs and I was worried that it was more than youth - that he was really just bad and 2005 was a fluke. But then he went down and basically matched his '05 numbers in '07. So now what's the real Cedeno? '05 and '07 of .900+ OPS from a young shortstop? Or '06, .600-ish OPS from a young shortstop? I haven't the foggiest idea, but as between a 25-year-old Cedeno who has 2 great AAA seasons in the last 3 years and a 28-year-old Theriot who...doesn't, I'll take Cedeno. We're not giving up ARod, we're not even giving up Eckstein, we're giving up a bad player for a younger one with potential.

 

He was 23 and trying to hit major league pitching. Maybe he'll never be able to, but there are a lot of guys who would hit terribly in the majors at 23 who went on to be great players. Many great major leaguers aren't even in AAA at 23. If you forced every player to play a full year in the majors when they were 23 and decided based on those numbers alone whether they would ever be any good, you'd lose a lot of great players (and, more importantly for our purposes, you'd miss out on a huge number of average and good players who just weren't good enough to hit major league pitching at 23).

[CardsFanInChiTown]

 

We're Cubs fans, what do you expect us to think? I'm sure you have no love for Cards minor leaguers. You probably write email after email to Walt begging him to add a guy like Jones, Floyd, or Theriot to block the guys in the system that have some promise.

 

 

For some reason Walt hasn't been replying to my email lately. What a jerk.

 

 

 

Murton and Cedeno have put up some really good numbers in the minors. When you're trying to determine if a guy is going to have success in the majors, success in the minors is a fairly good indicator (failsafe? Not at all, but as between a minor leaguer with 2 good seasons at AAA - at 22 and 24 - and a minor league with average or worse numbers in the minors, up to age 26, I'll take the former).

 

As many have written, though it hasn't sunken in, we're not advocating benching Babe Ruth or ARod to get these guys into the game. By and large, the guys playing ahead of Cedeno and Murton have been much older than they are and fallen somewhere between average and horrible. Given the choice between playing a relatively young guy with great AAA numbers and guys with bad AAA numbers or old and clearly declining players, I don't see how you can fault people for wanting to give the young guys chances.

 

 

They both have been given many chances. When will NSBB draw the line? When did everyone with Jason Dubois? Actually, at worst I think Murton is a nice part time player. I'm not sure what to think of Cedeno. Every time I saw him play he looked like a complete mess. I think the jury is still out on him. Assuming the Cubs don't get a quality SS in the offseason he should be given a shot in ST. I think we agree for the most part.

[CUBZ99]

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

 

 

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS.

 

Admittedly I haven't watched much of Theriot's defense but his SS metrics on BR looks merely below avg. FWIW, to a lesser extent I think you could say the same thing about Murton's hitting and defense.

 

I'm not championing Theriot but I don't entirely understand the love for Murton and Cedeno. I think they are interesting but that's about it. I'm a little surprised how some posters reacted to skepticism about them

 

It is unexplainable. Cedeno has shown nothing at the major league level to justify holding out hope that he will be anything more than a weak hitting decent fielding SS. In 2006, he played a full season at the big league level and put up a whopping .610 OPS. This year he boosted his OPS to a hefty .623. If he keeps improving at that rate in 5 years he may be producing in Theriot territory.

 

The best thing we can hope for next year is that Hendry either brings in a Major League SS or that he improves the team at C, RF, so that we can bury our SS 8th in the lineup.

[Tracer Bullet]

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

Please...list these "facts" for me.

 

 

Theriot 684 ABs...

 

 

.276/.341/.379

Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS

9 errors in 110 games at SS

 

 

Cedeno 688 ABs...

 

.247/.277/.349

Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS

26 errors in 178 games at SS

 

 

Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin.

 

Both sucked. One sucked a little more than the other, but both sucked. To say that Theriot significantly improved the Cubs chances to win (which isn't what you said, but it's implied in that statement) is just wrong. At their level of suck, the difference between Theriot and Cedeno isn't going to mean much in the W column. And one's significantly younger and put up significantly better #s in AAA, so it's more likely that he's going to improve than Theriot. Nothing's certain, so you play the percentages and they favor Cedeno at SS (as between these two, as many have said, it's not like we're suggesting benching or trading away a solid starter to give Cedeno a chance here).

 

I don't know how you can come here and argue with a straight face that the #s of a 23-year-old should be compared evenly to those of a 27-year-old when you're trying to determine who should get more playing time going forward.

 

 

I think a 64 point difference in OBP in almost 700 ABs is a significant difference and would certainly make a difference in the W column.

 

Here's the question I answered:

 

 

Cedeno had his shot, a couple of times. To say he is superior to what Ryan Theriot did for the Cubs with his chances is ignoring the facts.

 

 

He was only referring to what has happened. Not what will happen in the future. The fact is Theroit hasn't completely sucked and he's been much better than Cedeno. Like I said before, Ronny has more upside but teh Cubs better have a solid plan B.

 

Well, the question asks whether Cedeno is superior, not whether he was. And for all we know, Cedeno, if he played a full year in the majors, would have equaled Theriot's performance this year. Maybe so, maybe not, but Theriot had 1 good month and a bunch of really really bad ones. Cedeno had a few bad ABs in the majors and a season of .900+ OPS in the minors. When you're asking who "is" better (rather than who "was" better), it would seem to me the purpose is determining who is better going forward. Not just who was better in the past (if you meant that, you would say "was" not "is"). This discussion is making me feel a little Clinton-ish.

 

And as I said - at their level of suck, I don't think 60 points significantly increases your chances of winning. Maybe Theriot's #s in '06 would have meant we finished with 1 or 2 more wins, but at that point, does it really matter?

[Mizzou]

I really don't get the Ronny Cedeno love here. The guy mashed AAA pitching... big deal, a lot of people do. Jason Dubois did. David Kelton did. What are they up to these days? Why people are so willing to push aside Cedeno's atrocious career major league numbers and use his minor league numbers is beyond me. At least be consistent. You can't throw out some stats and keep the others. But if you're going to only use one set of stats, use the ones that matter most -- the major league ones.

 

Cedeno sucks. I'm fine with having him as the 25th man but he's not a realistic option to be a starter.

 

BECAUSE HE WAS 23 WHEN HE PUT UP THOSE NUMBERS.

 

PS - love the straw man. Why don't you do a quick check of the minor league numbers of every hall of famer. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that most of them put up pretty good numbers in the minors. Does that mean that everyone who puts up great numbers in the minors is a hall of famer? No, but your lame argument doesn't hold any more water than that one.

AND HE WAS 22 WHEN HE PUT UP GREAT NUMBERS IN THE MINORS THE YEAR BEFORE THAT. Did he suddenly forget how to hit because he aged a year? I don't care how young he was. He sucked. This is a classic case of a guy who can't hit major league pitching.

 

You're really this dense? He was 24 last year and put up great numbers. Maybe he suddenly learned how to hit again!

 

If Cedeno had gone down to Iowa last year and continued to suck, I would have written him off. He showed very little in his year with the Cubs and I was worried that it was more than youth - that he was really just bad and 2005 was a fluke. But then he went down and basically matched his '05 numbers in '07. So now what's the real Cedeno? '05 and '07 of .900+ OPS from a young shortstop? Or '06, .600-ish OPS from a young shortstop? I haven't the foggiest idea, but as between a 25-year-old Cedeno who has 2 great AAA seasons in the last 3 years and a 28-year-old Theriot who...doesn't, I'll take Cedeno. We're not giving up ARod, we're not even giving up Eckstein, we're giving up a bad player for a younger one with potential.

 

He was 23 and trying to hit major league pitching. Maybe he'll never be able to, but there are a lot of guys who would hit terribly in the majors at 23 who went on to be great players. Many great major leaguers aren't even in AAA at 23. If you forced every player to play a full year in the majors when they were 23 and decided based on those numbers alone whether they would ever be any good, you'd lose a lot of great players (and, more importantly for our purposes, you'd miss out on a huge number of average and good players who just weren't good enough to hit major league pitching at 23).

I don't care what he has done in the minors. He can dominate and hit 400 home runs per year, but if he sucks at the major league level, then who cares? Yes, he went back to Iowa this year and tore it up. He then returned to Chicago and looked awful. Like he did all of last year. So he's great in the minors and terrible in the majors. Does that sum it up pretty accurately?

 

You want to hand him the job over Theriot next year because of his potential? Theriot has been better, much better, than Cedeno in his major league career. Why should he have his job stripped from him and handed to a guy who, in 700 major league at bats, hasn't shown that he knows how to hit at this level? If our two options next year are Theriot and Cedeno, Ryan should be the starter. If he gets hurt, then let's see if Ronny can improve on that 53 OPS+ that he put up in '06. But he shouldn't just be given the job because he's better against minor league pitching. That's absurd.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Well, the question asks whether Cedeno is superior, not whether he was. And for all we know, Cedeno, if he played a full year in the majors, would have equaled Theriot's performance this year. Maybe so, maybe not, but Theriot had 1 good month and a bunch of really really bad ones. Cedeno had a few bad ABs in the majors and a season of .900+ OPS in the minors. When you're asking who "is" better (rather than who "was" better), it would seem to me the purpose is determining who is better going forward. Not just who was better in the past (if you meant that, you would say "was" not "is"). This discussion is making me feel a little Clinton-ish.

 

 

A poster asked about prior performance and I answered it. Theriot has been better at the MLB level and that means something. IMO you're cherry picking stats by disregarding Cedeno MLB performance and Theriot's hot start.

 

Like I said, going forward I think Cedeno has a higher ceiling but he also has a lower floor.

 

 

And as I said - at their level of suck, I don't think 60 points significantly increases your chances of winning. Maybe Theriot's #s in '06 would have meant we finished with 1 or 2 more wins, but at that point, does it really matter?

 

 

A 2 win difference is a pretty big deal. A .276/.341/.379 isn't great but it's also not horrible for a SS.

[Guest]

Well, the question asks whether Cedeno is superior, not whether he was. And for all we know, Cedeno, if he played a full year in the majors, would have equaled Theriot's performance this year. Maybe so, maybe not, but Theriot had 1 good month and a bunch of really really bad ones. Cedeno had a few bad ABs in the majors and a season of .900+ OPS in the minors. When you're asking who "is" better (rather than who "was" better), it would seem to me the purpose is determining who is better going forward. Not just who was better in the past (if you meant that, you would say "was" not "is"). This discussion is making me feel a little Clinton-ish.

 

 

A poster asked about prior performance and I answered it. Theriot has been better at the MLB level and that means something. IMO you're cherry picking stats by disregarding Cedeno MLB performance and Theriot's hot start.

 

Like I said, going forward I think Cedeno has a higher ceiling but he also has a lower floor.

 

 

And as I said - at their level of suck, I don't think 60 points significantly increases your chances of winning. Maybe Theriot's #s in '06 would have meant we finished with 1 or 2 more wins, but at that point, does it really matter?

 

 

A 2 win difference is a pretty big deal. A .276/.341/.379 isn't great but it's also not horrible for a SS.

 

maybe so, but given that cedeno has a shot to be major league quality and theriot doesn't, why not play cedeno? Should the Royals give up on Gordon because he had his chance this year? That kind of ridiculous thinking doesn't get you anywhere.