'08 Cubs Second Base

[Skyballer]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

[Skyballer]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

I'm not saying one way or the other but care to explain your side.

[Brian]

DeRosa is better at baseball.

[Roast]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

I'm not saying one way or the other but care to explain your side.

 

DeRosa is better at....well....everything.

[justin23iu]

It's ridiculous to talk about DeRosa's career numbers, when in reality as a full time player in Texas and with the Cubs his numbers are completely different. Take DeRosa's last 2 years and put them against Theriot's last 2 seasons, which is a more accurate assessment of their talents as full time players, and you'll find that the obvious choice to play 2nd in DeRosa. It's not even close.

[Skyballer]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

I'm not saying one way or the other but care to explain your side.

 

DeRosa is better at....well....everything.

The numbers say differently.

 

I honestly think this will be a very fair battle in ST and that no one will be favored by anything more than their production during ST and the season.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

I'm not saying one way or the other but care to explain your side.

 

Sure.

 

DeRosa: 278/371/408

 

Theriot: 266/326/346

[Guest]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

[Drew Doughty]

Derosa is also better defensively, to add on to the large edge he has offensively.

 

this isn't even remotely a question. theriot is not close to derosa.

[Skyballer]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

[Drew Doughty]

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

 

yes you can, because he's been better and will be better next year and is generally just a lot better than theriot.

 

granted, dero doesn't rack up those clutch steals.

[Skyballer]

Derosa is also better defensively, to add on to the large edge he has offensively.

 

this isn't even remotely a question. theriot is not close to derosa.

Really, FP was the only career mark I found on B-R and FP favored Riot. As far as physical defensive skills go, they're both surehanded and have about even arms. Theriot is way faster though.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Based on the evidence we have, I think it's safe to assume that DeRosa is better.

 

Sure, anything can happen. But as has been noted, Theriot's sample size isn't nearly what Derosa's is. If you take the past three years, DeRosa is better. If you take the most recent season, DeRosa is better. You have to use career as the only means to even come close to evening them out.

 

Considering DeRosa made an adjustment to his swing in 2006, and that he replicated the results from that, I think it's more likely that DeRosa is closer to his 2007 self than Theriot is to his career, considering Theriot's career numbers are buoyed by a 2006 run that he's unlikely to replicate.

[Guest]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

 

Why are DeRosa's past two seasons fluky?

 

In terms of an age-related decline, DeRosa's so much better than Theriot (who is in his prime) that it'd take a precipitous decline from DeRo (which doesn't seem too likely) to make him a worse option than Theriot.

[Guest]

Derosa is also better defensively, to add on to the large edge he has offensively.

 

this isn't even remotely a question. theriot is not close to derosa.

Really, FP was the only career mark I found on B-R and FP favored Riot. As far as physical defensive skills go, they're both surehanded and have about even arms. Theriot is way faster though.

 

Speed isn't much of an issue on IF defense, DeRosa has better range.

 

FP sucks.

[E.J.]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

 

Theriot had a great month of July, but was terrible the rest of the season. He's nothing more than a pretty good utility player that was forced into a starting position because there weren't better options at SS. DeRosa is the better player, and it's not even close. You can assume DeRosa should start over Theriot because he's the much better player.

[Flames24Rulz]

Theriot would make for a decent bench player, but my God. He is not a starter, especially at 2B over DeRosa.

[Guest]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

 

Even if DeRosa declines a bit he's still a better hitter than Theriot and there's no reason to believe that will happen next year.

 

Additionally, Theriot is what he is at this point. He's not going to get much better and both his minor and current major league numbers show this.

 

Based on what we know, DeRosa should start next year (assuming the Cubs don't add another second baseman) and the only thing that should change that is an injury to DeRosa. Even if Theriot has an amazing spring that shouldn't mean anything.

[dew1679666265]

So let's pretend we get Renteria or A-Rod to play short? Why is everyone so quick to assume DeRosa is automatically the starter at second base over Theriot. They both have a career OBP of .341, Riot does have a 29 point lower slg of .379 compared to DeRosa's .408, I'd say they are about the same when it comes to batting, with a slight edge to DeRo. So another tool we can use to value them is baserunning, and yes it is relevant. Riot stole 28 bases and was caught 4 times in '07, good for a 87%. DeRo stole one base and was caught twice good for 33%. over their career, Riot has a 87 percent success rate compared to DeRosa's 48 percent. We've now concluded that Riot is considerably faster and better at stealing base than DeRosa and that DeRosa is a slightly better batter. Next tool I can think of is fielding, Riot has a career FP of .992 percent at 2B compared to DeRosa's .984 percent. We've now concluded that Theriot is a better fielder and baserunner than DeRosa but slightly weaker batter.

 

Let's not forget that DeRosa is on the wrong side of 30 and likely to decrease while Theriot is 27 going on 28 and should improve or stay the same.

 

Based on the evidence, and if we get a new SS, I'd say we'd go into ST in a fair battle between DeRosa and Riot with the better performer getting the nod and without experience or past performance being considered.

 

Ideas?

 

Using career number the two is not a good idea espeically in Theriot's case. I think he's proven that his 2006 line was an anomaly and that we're much more likely to see the 2007 version in the future.

 

So look at their lines this year:

 

DeRosa: .293/.371/.420/.791

Theriot: .266/.326/.346/.672

 

Theriot has never shown to have had much power and has a career .066 IsoP in the minors. Even if you take DeRosa's career numbers .278/.341/.408/.749, they're easily better than what Theriot did this year. DeRosa doesn't have a ton of power, but Theriot basically has none (5 HR's in 2048 career AB's in the minors). I would hardly consider DeRosa to be a slightly better batter.

Who's to say the last two years for DeRo weren't fluky.

And to restate one point DeRosa is 32 and likely to decline while Theriot is 27 and likely to improve or stay the same.

Again though, I'm not making the arguement on who should start, I'm making the argument that you can't automatically assume DeRosa should start.

 

DeRosa made a change in his batting stance two years ago that coincides with his improved numbers. That makes his improvement less likely to be a fluke.

 

Also, I don't like the idea of completely ignoring what has been done in the past. Depending on the player and the situation should determine how much weight you give the past, but it should be taken into consideration - especially when you're facing spring training pitching.

[VVMattVV]

And the "MurtonFan is a fake account" theory gets more evidence.

[Mizzou]

I like Theriot a lot, but he's not even close to DeRosa. If this is the competition at 2B next year... well, there won't be much of a competition.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

And the "MurtonFan is a fake account" theory gets more evidence.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

DEROSA IS BETTER THAN THERIOT... he is actually much better.

 

is this really a thread?

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

I like Theriot, but there's no way he should be starting over DeRosa.

I'm not saying one way or the other but care to explain your side.

 

DeRosa is better at....well....everything.

The numbers say differently.

 

I honestly think this will be a very fair battle in ST and that no one will be favored by anything more than their production during ST and the season.

 

Not to be a dick..well yeah, I'm gonna be one...please name me one stinkin stat that would suggest otherwise..i mean come on...