Milt Pappas and the fat man

[kente777]

Good article about that fateful day. I remember listening to that game on my transister radio as a kid. Unbelievable.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3019597

[jjgman21]

But Hundley didn't dare argue, he says. Earlier in the game, he'd raised Froemming's ire by inadvertently brushing dirt on him when Hundley was really upset at himself for having popped out on an at-bat.

 

but hey, Bruce 'calls em as he sees em.'

 

 

Bruce Froemming, shown in 1973, was a minor league umpire for 13 years before he umpired his first major league game in 1971.

 

perhaps mlb was on to something for 13 years.

[Magnetic Curses]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

[Dr. Cub]

Forgive me if this has been said in another thread, but the fat man and his crew are doing the SD/MIL series. That sounds promising, huh?

[kente777]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

Yeah, but in that situation, you give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt and call those borderline pitches strikes. I don't believe him either when he says he didn't know Pappas had a perfect game.

[Peoriaman]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

[minnesotacubsfan]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

disagree. After 8 innings of perfect ball, the ump has to give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt, he (the pitcher) knew where his pitches were and they should have been called strikes

[kente777]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

If the pitches were clearly balls, then yes, I agree. However, two of those pitches were borderline....and IMO, you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

 

In today's game, it happens all the time. Don't tell me that Greg Maddux doesn't get a more liberal zone simply because he's Greg Maddux. I suppose you can argue whether that's right or wrong, but it happens all the time. In the NBA, certain stars are given more leniency when it comes to fouls. I'm sure 35 years ago was no different. Each ump had his own strike zone and calls were just as subjective as today.

 

Probably 75% of umps today would have given Pappas a strikeout.

[Peoriaman]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

If the pitches were clearly balls, then yes, I agree. However, two of those pitches were borderline....and IMO, you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

 

In today's game, it happens all the time. Don't tell me that Greg Maddux doesn't get a more liberal zone simply because he's Greg Maddux. I suppose you can argue whether that's right or wrong, but it happens all the time. In the NBA, certain stars are given more leniency when it comes to fouls. I'm sure 35 years ago was no different. Each ump had his own strike zone and calls were just as subjective as today.

 

Probably 75% of umps today would have given Pappas a strikeout.

 

maybe so, maybe not. That doesn't make it right.

[kente777]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

If the pitches were clearly balls, then yes, I agree. However, two of those pitches were borderline....and IMO, you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

 

In today's game, it happens all the time. Don't tell me that Greg Maddux doesn't get a more liberal zone simply because he's Greg Maddux. I suppose you can argue whether that's right or wrong, but it happens all the time. In the NBA, certain stars are given more leniency when it comes to fouls. I'm sure 35 years ago was no different. Each ump had his own strike zone and calls were just as subjective as today.

 

Probably 75% of umps today would have given Pappas a strikeout.

 

maybe so, maybe not. That doesn't make it right.

 

If it's borderline (definition of borderline: "can go either way"), you give it to the pitcher in that case. It's not a matter of right or wrong. If it's clearly a ball, then you call it a ball, but that was not the case in 2 of those balls.

 

And if Froemming calls it a strike and Pappas gets the perfect game, then he makes history, not Froemming. But by virtue of the fact that he called it a ball, Froemming will be forever remembered.

[Peoriaman]

froeming thought they were balls. That is how he called them. 95% of baseball fans have no idea he was behind the plate in that game.

[TruffleShuffle]

froemming is a fat sack of crap; the game will be better off when he is gone

[kente777]

froemming is a fat sack of crap; the game will be better off when he is gone

 

hey, man, tell us how you really feel. :lol:

[Magnetic Curses]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

If the pitches were clearly balls, then yes, I agree. However, two of those pitches were borderline....and IMO, you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

 

In today's game, it happens all the time. Don't tell me that Greg Maddux doesn't get a more liberal zone simply because he's Greg Maddux. I suppose you can argue whether that's right or wrong, but it happens all the time. In the NBA, certain stars are given more leniency when it comes to fouls. I'm sure 35 years ago was no different. Each ump had his own strike zone and calls were just as subjective as today.

 

Probably 75% of umps today would have given Pappas a strikeout.

 

maybe so, maybe not. That doesn't make it right.

 

If it's borderline (definition of borderline: "can go either way"), you give it to the pitcher in that case. It's not a matter of right or wrong. If it's clearly a ball, then you call it a ball, but that was not the case in 2 of those balls.

 

And if Froemming calls it a strike and Pappas gets the perfect game, then he makes history, not Froemming. But by virtue of the fact that he called it a ball, Froemming will be forever remembered.

 

it's ridiculous to think that a relatively new ump had an ulterior motive and spearheaded a conspiracy to rob pappas of a perfect game.

 

froemming thought those pitches were balls, and like you said, it's a human game. i don't think he missed the calls, others might. it wouldn't be the first time someone disagreed with an ump.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Stannis

[kente777]

in froemming's defense, from what i could tell, those pitches weren't strikes.

 

 

agree. You don't change the way you call them based upon a pitcher's no-hitter.

 

If the pitches were clearly balls, then yes, I agree. However, two of those pitches were borderline....and IMO, you give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher.

 

In today's game, it happens all the time. Don't tell me that Greg Maddux doesn't get a more liberal zone simply because he's Greg Maddux. I suppose you can argue whether that's right or wrong, but it happens all the time. In the NBA, certain stars are given more leniency when it comes to fouls. I'm sure 35 years ago was no different. Each ump had his own strike zone and calls were just as subjective as today.

 

Probably 75% of umps today would have given Pappas a strikeout.

 

maybe so, maybe not. That doesn't make it right.

 

If it's borderline (definition of borderline: "can go either way"), you give it to the pitcher in that case. It's not a matter of right or wrong. If it's clearly a ball, then you call it a ball, but that was not the case in 2 of those balls.

 

And if Froemming calls it a strike and Pappas gets the perfect game, then he makes history, not Froemming. But by virtue of the fact that he called it a ball, Froemming will be forever remembered.

 

it's ridiculous to think that a relatively new ump had an ulterior motive and spearheaded a conspiracy to rob pappas of a perfect game.

 

froemming thought those pitches were balls, and it's a human game. i don't think he missed the calls, others might. it wouldn't be the first time someone disagreed with an ump.

 

Yes, he single-handedly started a conspiracy and is actively plotting with other umpires to take over the world.

[BRASKYS SCOTCH]

I actually met the umpire clubhous attendant's wife - this is the same guy who's been in the paper the past couple of days due to his retirement - while out for a walk before a Cubs game this summer. She mentioned how much of an ogre Bruce Froemming is, and that her husband was glad to not have to deal with him anymore after this year. Even more so, according to her his wife is just brutal to deal with, as well.

[CuseCubFan69]

froemming is a fat sack of crap; the game will be better off when he is gone

 

hey, man, tell us how you really feel. :lol:

 

He's just upset that Jose Moran was kicked off of Dancing with the Stars.

[SouthSideRyan]

I actually met the umpire clubhous attendant's wife - this is the same guy who's been in the paper the past couple of days due to his retirement - while out for a walk before a Cubs game this summer. She mentioned how much of an ogre Bruce Froemming is, and that her husband was glad to not have to deal with him anymore after this year. Even more so, according to her his wife is just brutal to deal with, as well.

 

If you had to live with that thing you'd be the same way.

 

I thought I'd heard Froemming in talking about the game saying something along the lines of how many people remember the ump from a perfect game compared to me? Just a real douchebag thing to say even if he was umping it honestly.

 

But seriously Milt, let it go, you sounded really bitter in the booth earlier this year.

[Peoriaman]

I actually met the umpire clubhous attendant's wife - this is the same guy who's been in the paper the past couple of days due to his retirement - while out for a walk before a Cubs game this summer. She mentioned how much of an ogre Bruce Froemming is, and that her husband was glad to not have to deal with him anymore after this year. Even more so, according to her his wife is just brutal to deal with, as well.

 

If you had to live with that thing you'd be the same way.

 

I thought I'd heard Froemming in talking about the game saying something along the lines of how many people remember the ump from a perfect game compared to me? Just a real douchebag thing to say even if he was umping it honestly.

 

But seriously Milt, let it go, you sounded really bitter in the booth earlier this year.

 

Personally, I don't care for Milt or Froemming. They are both very unlikable.

[Magnetic Curses]

I actually met the umpire clubhous attendant's wife - this is the same guy who's been in the paper the past couple of days due to his retirement - while out for a walk before a Cubs game this summer. She mentioned how much of an ogre Bruce Froemming is, and that her husband was glad to not have to deal with him anymore after this year. Even more so, according to her his wife is just brutal to deal with, as well.

 

If you had to live with that thing you'd be the same way.

 

I thought I'd heard Froemming in talking about the game saying something along the lines of how many people remember the ump from a perfect game compared to me? Just a real douchebag thing to say even if he was umping it honestly.

 

But seriously Milt, let it go, you sounded really bitter in the booth earlier this year.

 

Personally, I don't care for Milt or Froemming. They are both very unlikable.

 

yeah, pappas is a tool.

[TruffleShuffle]

froemming is a fat sack of crap; the game will be better off when he is gone

 

hey, man, tell us how you really feel. :lol:

 

He's just upset that Jose Moran was kicked off of Dancing with the Stars.

 

already? man, what the hell.

[Ivy Walls]

My father knew we could get tickets on the day of the game late on Saturday morning, he was right less than 12,000 people showed up where buying grandstand seats we could eventually move down to the box seats. He took my brother who was just 12 and more interested in the venders faire than the game. I was 15 and had just finished playing baseball competitively in Colt League.

 

Pappas was in command, but the Padres had a poor lineup with only two players of any threat, Pappas was not dominant but seemed efficient. The Cubs jumped out to an early 2-R lead in the first inning with singles by Cardinal and Hickman driving in runs. Early on Padres hit a couple of liners at people. As the game wore on Pappas got better with K's and lazy fly balls, it was about the 5th inning that my father and I gave each other a look, then as Pappas got through the 6th the ground began to get on their seats.

 

It was then my brother looking up from a Santo pizza or something blurted out that "hey there is a no-hitter going on!" As the Andy Frain began to scatter we moved down into what was the club boxes behind the Padres dugout. The 7th Pappas got an easy pop up, another K and an easy grounder to 1B.....now the crowd was really getting excited.

 

The 8th inning Pappas was facing the bigger hitters, he got Colbert to ground out to Kessenger, big Gaston struck out and an easy come-backer to the mound.....

 

Cubs then exploded for 4 runs so the game was out of reach.

 

The 9th my father got us up again and found 3 seats about 4 rows behind the on deck circle, the crowd was on top of the plate all around. Each pitch was excruciating, Then a Padres hit a liner into CF but what a catch by Billy North. Kendall's father then hit a easy grounder to Kessenger and there was 2 outs....Naturally there was a pinch hitter.....

 

Not only was ball 4 a horrible call but also ball 2....in fact we were all over Froemming because if he had called ball 2 a strike Pappas strikes him out at 2-2.......When Froemming blew the call my father among other adults were so angry that the profanity was extreme....Cubs sent security down the aisles but the next guy basically hit a can a corn and the game was over.

 

Five years ago I sent Pappas my scorecard and he signed it.

[Magnetic Curses]

My father knew we could get tickets on the day of the game late on Saturday morning, he was right less than 12,000 people showed up where buying grandstand seats we could eventually move down to the box seats. He took my brother who was just 12 and more interested in the venders faire than the game. I was 15 and had just finished playing baseball competitively in Colt League.

 

Pappas was in command, but the Padres had a poor lineup with only two players of any threat, Pappas was not dominant but seemed efficient. The Cubs jumped out to an early 2-R lead in the first inning with singles by Cardinal and Hickman driving in runs. Early on Padres hit a couple of liners at people. As the game wore on Pappas got better with K's and lazy fly balls, it was about the 5th inning that my father and I gave each other a look, then as Pappas got through the 6th the ground began to get on their seats.

 

It was then my brother looking up from a Santo pizza or something blurted out that "hey there is a no-hitter going on!" As the Andy Frain began to scatter we moved down into what was the club boxes behind the Padres dugout. The 7th Pappas got an easy pop up, another K and an easy grounder to 1B.....now the crowd was really getting excited.

 

The 8th inning Pappas was facing the bigger hitters, he got Colbert to ground out to Kessenger, big Gaston struck out and an easy come-backer to the mound.....

 

Cubs then exploded for 4 runs so the game was out of reach.

 

The 9th my father got us up again and found 3 seats about 4 rows behind the on deck circle, the crowd was on top of the plate all around. Each pitch was excruciating, Then a Padres hit a liner into CF but what a catch by Billy North. Kendall's father then hit a easy grounder to Kessenger and there was 2 outs....Naturally there was a pinch hitter.....

 

Not only was ball 4 a horrible call but also ball 2....in fact we were all over Froemming because if he had called ball 2 a strike Pappas strikes him out at 2-2.......When Froemming blew the call my father among other adults were so angry that the profanity was extreme....Cubs sent security down the aisles but the next guy basically hit a can a corn and the game was over.

 

Five years ago I sent Pappas my scorecard and he signed it.

 

i enjoyed reading that, thanks.

[GoCubsGo1679625768]

So I heard Fat Froeming struck again tonight?

[TruffleShuffle]

So I heard Fat Froeming struck again tonight?

 

one of the worst calls i've ever seen.... hopefully we can get a screenshot or video of it.