The Theriot appreciation thread...

[erik316wttn]

I love this kid, and I hope he's our shortstop for a long time. He can get the big hit, hits for contact, has a good glove, good speed... not a lot of power but he's a very good #2 type hitter.

 

I love The Riot!

[RyneSandberg]

He's a grinder.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/vance_the_cubs_fan/fontenot-theriotshirt.jpg

[weatherdood]

Unless ARod's a Cub next year...there should be no doubt as to our starting SS in 2008!

[Lockes Eye Scar]

he's constructed of grit, hustle, and moxy

 

backbone, daring, determination, doggedness, fortitude, gameness, guts*, hardihood, intestinal fortitude*, mettle, nerve, perseverance, pluck, resolution, spirit, spunk, tenacity, toughness

[erik316wttn]

Unless ARod's a Cub next year...there should be no doubt as to our starting SS in 2008!

 

In the extremely unlikely event we get ARod, we'll have to ditch one of DeRosa or Theriot.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Unless ARod's a Cub next year...there should be no doubt as to our starting SS in 2008!

 

In the extremely unlikely event we get ARod, we'll have to ditch one of DeRosa or Theriot.

 

Maybe not...Arod to short, Theriot to second, DeRosa to rightfield.

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't hope Theriot is our starting SS for a long time. Sorry but he's just not that good offensively. If the Cubs can upgrade other positions (I'm looking at you, CF/RF) then he's fine at SS. But if they can't get outfielders with pop and OBP ability, then SS is the next place to look.

[RyneSandberg]

Unless ARod's a Cub next year...there should be no doubt as to our starting SS in 2008!

 

In the extremely unlikely event we get ARod, we'll have to ditch one of DeRosa or Theriot.

 

Maybe not...Arod to short, Theriot to second, DeRosa to rightfield.

God that would be orgasmic

[RyneSandberg]

I don't hope Theriot is our starting SS for a long time. Sorry but he's just not that good offensively. If the Cubs can upgrade other positions (I'm looking at you, CF/RF) then he's fine at SS. But if they can't get outfielders with pop and OBP ability, then SS is the next place to look.

WRONG

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't hope Theriot is our starting SS for a long time. Sorry but he's just not that good offensively. If the Cubs can upgrade other positions (I'm looking at you, CF/RF) then he's fine at SS. But if they can't get outfielders with pop and OBP ability, then SS is the next place to look.

WRONG

 

okay so he's 19th out of 29 in VORP among SS with at least 300 PAs. He's also worse than about 60-65% of major league SS in EqA and RC/G, and his EqA is pretty much tied with Jack Wilson. So why exactly are you so convinced that he should be the shortstop for years to come?

[CubColtPacer]

Theriot has been a slightly below average shortstop this year.

 

Out of 26 qualified SS's in the majors:

 

13th in BA

13th in OBP

18th in SLG

18th in OPS

5th in SB

 

So he has been an average OBP, below average slugging, above average stolen bases. Add in average defense, and you have a slightly below average player.

 

He's not a pressing concern to replace, because he is cheap and good shortstops are hard to come by. The Cubs shouldn't hesitate to replace him if a better option comes along though.

 

I also don't want to see any option where he might be a starter at 2nd base because his numbers would be terrible there.

[Jazz]

I think he's FAR FAR exceeded my expectations of him in the past year and a half, but I don't think that we should be content with him for the future. With Pie still being unproven, and since we dont really know what were gonna get from the outfield next year, I think we should definitely keep SS as place worth upgrading.

[erik316wttn]

Well..... I still like the guy. :(

[Handlebar McSkullet]

Theriot has been a slightly below average shortstop this year.

 

Out of 26 qualified SS's in the majors:

 

13th in BA

13th in OBP

18th in SLG

18th in OPS

5th in SB

 

So he has been an average OBP, below average slugging, above average stolen bases. Add in average defense, and you have a slightly below average player.

 

He's not a pressing concern to replace, because he is cheap and good shortstops are hard to come by. The Cubs shouldn't hesitate to replace him if a better option comes along though.

 

I also don't want to see any option where he might be a starter at 2nd base because his numbers would be terrible there.

 

He isnt average defensively. His fielding percentage and range factor is in the top 10.

[Omar]

It really seems like his production comes at exactly the right time. Numbers don't explain it all.

[TruffleShuffle]

Well..... I still like the guy. :(

 

I do too. If we had a very good lineup like the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox or Angels, having a shortstop with slightly below average numbers is no reason for concern, especially given the cheap price tag. But Lee, Soriano and Ramirez aren't super mashers, plus catcher, CF and RF have been black holes. Personally I'd be fine with Theriot as the SS going forward; upgrading one of the outfield positions should not be THAT difficult. But if the opportunity to acquire a very good SS presents itself, the Cubs should not shy away.

[TruffleShuffle]

It really seems like his production comes at exactly the right time. Numbers don't explain it all.

 

 I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
  2 outs, RISP  47      57  50       9  1  0  0  10   7   0   4   0   0   0   4   0         .180  .281  .200  .481  .196    30    37 2 outs, RISP 
  Late & Close  62      83  74      19  4  1  1   7   7   0   6   0   2   0   3   1         .257  .321  .378  .699  .269    94    97 Late & Close 
  Tie Game      90     158 140      39  8  0  1   8  14   0  14   0   4   0   5   1         .279  .344  .357  .701  .304    87    98 Tie Game     
  Within 1 R   106     273 241      67 15  1  1  16  26   0  21   0   6   0   8   2         .278  .348  .361  .709  .301    90   100 Within 1 R   
  Within 2 R   115     351 314      86 18  1  1  22  29   0  30   0   8   0   8   4         .274  .335  .347  .682  .300    82    93 Within 2 R   
  Within 3 R   117     397 359     102 24  1  2  32  30   0  38   0   8   0   8   5         .284  .339  .373  .713  .313    90   101 Within 3 R   
  Within 4 R   123     440 397     112 26  1  3  36  35   0  40   0   8   0   8   5         .282  .340  .375  .716  .308    90   102 Within 4 R   
  Margin > 4 R  38      64  55      15  1  0  0   5   8   0   3   0   0   1   3   1         .273  .359  .291  .650  .283    78    84 Margin > 4 R 

 

 

If those numbers look really similar to his .281/.343/.365/.708 line overall, that's because they are.

[erik316wttn]

Well..... I still like the guy. :(

 

I do too. If we had a very good lineup like the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox or Angels, having a shortstop with slightly below average numbers is no reason for concern, especially given the cheap price tag. But Lee, Soriano and Ramirez aren't super mashers, plus catcher, CF and RF have been black holes. Personally I'd be fine with Theriot as the SS going forward; upgrading one of the outfield positions should not be THAT difficult. But if the opportunity to acquire a very good SS presents itself, the Cubs should not shy away.

 

Of course. I completely agree.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

It really seems like his production comes at exactly the right time. Numbers don't explain it all.

 

 I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
  2 outs, RISP  47      57  50       9  1  0  0  10   7   0   4   0   0   0   4   0         .180  .281  .200  .481  .196    30    37 2 outs, RISP 
  Late & Close  62      83  74      19  4  1  1   7   7   0   6   0   2   0   3   1         .257  .321  .378  .699  .269    94    97 Late & Close 
  Tie Game      90     158 140      39  8  0  1   8  14   0  14   0   4   0   5   1         .279  .344  .357  .701  .304    87    98 Tie Game     
  Within 1 R   106     273 241      67 15  1  1  16  26   0  21   0   6   0   8   2         .278  .348  .361  .709  .301    90   100 Within 1 R   
  Within 2 R   115     351 314      86 18  1  1  22  29   0  30   0   8   0   8   4         .274  .335  .347  .682  .300    82    93 Within 2 R   
  Within 3 R   117     397 359     102 24  1  2  32  30   0  38   0   8   0   8   5         .284  .339  .373  .713  .313    90   101 Within 3 R   
  Within 4 R   123     440 397     112 26  1  3  36  35   0  40   0   8   0   8   5         .282  .340  .375  .716  .308    90   102 Within 4 R   
  Margin > 4 R  38      64  55      15  1  0  0   5   8   0   3   0   0   1   3   1         .273  .359  .291  .650  .283    78    84 Margin > 4 R 

 

 

If those numbers look really similar to his .281/.343/.365/.708 line overall, that's because they are.

 

not to nitpick, but just looking at those numbers, within 1-5 runs categories there is a difference of 17 games between them. That might explain the similarity in batting lines. However, the first two lines, 2out risp & close games are lower than his overall average. so think what you will.

[CubmanPi]

he's constructed of grit, hustle, and moxy

 

backbone, daring, determination, doggedness, fortitude, gameness, guts*, hardihood, intestinal fortitude*, mettle, nerve, perseverance, pluck, resolution, spirit, spunk, tenacity, toughness

Don't forget consistency. It's all about the consistency.

[TruffleShuffle]

he's constructed of grit, hustle, and moxy

 

backbone, daring, determination, doggedness, fortitude, gameness, guts*, hardihood, intestinal fortitude*, mettle, nerve, perseverance, pluck, resolution, spirit, spunk, tenacity, toughness

Don't forget consistency. It's all about the consistency.

 

joe morgan is that you?

[MPrior]

I'm all for keeping him around until we actually have to start paying him real money (as opposed to the fake money he's currently earning - you know, several hundred thousand dollars a year), because he'll provide roughly average production (including a decent OBP) for a shortstop cheaply. And, whatever the extent that attitude can affect the team, his effect is positive in that regard.

 

As has been said, though, if an opportunity comes along to improve at SS, the Cubs should take it. Under no circumstances should Theriot become the primary 2B.

 

Side note: just presenting his ranking among SS doesn't paint the whole picture. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I imagine that the bottom of the barrel of SS in terms of production are truly, inexcusably awful - and not being truly awful is the biggest asset Theriot presents to this team, I think.

[WrigleyField 22]

I like him, but would probably prefer his role next year to be backing up SS and playing 2B with DeRosa. Between resting the SS and starting 2B when DeRosa needs a rest or is playing supersub, he could still get a lot of bats. His numbers just doesn't justify playing everyday. That being said, who knows if the Cubs will be able to spend on a starting quality SS this offseason, in which case he might be the best option.

[imb]

I want a black short stop that can actually hit, that everyone else will hate.