Shortstop III

[Mephistopheles]

Disclaimer: This thread is different from the other shortstop threads. It doesn't involve statistics or even moving guys. The fact that it doesn't involve statistics should make the discussion more intelligent, as backwards as that is.

 

I don't believe his name has been mentioned around here. Felipe Lopez had two very good seasons in 2005 and 2006 and is still relatively young and is in his prime (just turned 27). He's shown average power with above average on base skills. He's been terrible this year, but it would be a good buy low chance. He can also split time at 2B and SS so we can play matchups with DeRosa, Fonte and Theriot. If the Cubs aren't going to call up Ronny Cedeno, I wouldn't be shocked if the Cubs could deal Cedeno for Lopez straight up. He's still arby in 2008 and won't be an FA until 09. It's a pretty good idea and it has the all-important Meph Stamp of Approval.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Mephistopheles

[RynoRules]

No thanks. Rather just have Cedeno.

 

What happened to SS II?

[Mephistopheles]

Laura transferred it to the mod board.

[Handlebar McSkullet]

No thanks. Rather just have Cedeno.

 

What happened to SS II?

 

i would much rather have lopez. cedeno's two good months of aaa, does not wipe out the image of crap of the entire last year.

[Laura]

Hopefully it can be transferred back once 80% of the posts that had nothing to do with the subject matter are cut out. I don't have time to do that tonight; perhaps another mod does.

 

This thread will not be transferred. Post about the subject matter, not about other posters.

 

Be forewarned: If this thread gets derailed, the posters who derail it will be removed in lieu of the thread. This is your only warning, and it applies to everyone.

 

Thanks and enjoy your evening.

[reds44]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

[Mephistopheles]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why not just give Cedeno a shot? Lopez may bounce back, but his BABIP numbers don't give me a ton of hope, and his upside is similar to Cedeno's, so I'd rather just give Ronny the several hundred PA tryout.

[seanimal]

Interesting proposition, but I don't really see the benefit of the bother. Cedeno is younger and the jury is still out as to the level he can be successful at, while Lopez is older and we know what to expect from him, this year notwithstanding. While we might slightly benefit if Lopez can pick it up, I'd rather see what Cedeno could do over the next couple of years if he doesn't leave in a trade package sometime soon.

[Mephistopheles]

Why not just give Cedeno a shot? Lopez may bounce back, but his BABIP numbers don't give me a ton of hope, and his upside is similar to Cedeno's, so I'd rather just give Ronny the several hundred PA tryout.

 

Interesting proposition, but I don't really see the benefit of the bother. Cedeno is younger and the jury is still out as to the level he can be successful at, while Lopez is older and we know what to expect from him, this year notwithstanding. While we might slightly benefit if Lopez can pick it up, I'd rather see what Cedeno could do over the next couple of years if he doesn't leave in a trade package sometime soon.

 

I'm all for giving Cedeno a shot, I just don't particularly see it happening. He's been tearing up AAA for a long stretch and hasn't gotten the recall yet. That said, if Cedeno pans out is he any better than what Lopez was in 2005-06? No, that seems to be Cedeno's upside and the fact that Lopez has done it during his age 25 and 26 seasons suggest that he's much more likely to re-attain that level of production.

[reds44]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once. I'm sure that projects well down the line.

[Mephistopheles]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once.

 

That's nice. He wasn't a full-time starter until he was 25 and got a lot of on the job training as a young player. Since then he's been pretty good with most of his OPS being OBP-driven (which means OPS underrates him).

[CubmanPi]

Since Cedeno has been tearing it up for so long without getting the call, I'm seriously hoping that such impressive numbers so high up in the system are going to make a heavy kicker in a deal that brings a coveted and solid bat of more than a Church/Stairs caliber to the team.

[Mephistopheles]

Since Cedeno has been tearing it up for so long without getting the call, I'm seriously hoping that such impressive numbers so high up in the system are going to make a heavy kicker in a deal that brings a coveted and solid bat of more than a Church/Stairs caliber to the team.

 

That's nice, but the real culprit isn't going to be outfield production. It's going to be shortstop and catcher production.

[reds44]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once.

 

That's nice. He wasn't a full-time starter until he was 25 and got a lot of on the job training as a young player. Since then he's been pretty good with most of his OPS being OBP-driven (which means OPS underrates him).

That's nice. Remove 2005 and his .258/.321/.399 career line gets even uglier.

 

His .294 OBP in 377 ABs this year screams "pretty good job" to me.

 

Did I mention he is an awful defensive SS?

[Mephistopheles]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once.

 

That's nice. He wasn't a full-time starter until he was 25 and got a lot of on the job training as a young player. Since then he's been pretty good with most of his OPS being OBP-driven (which means OPS underrates him).

That's nice. Remove 2005 and his .258/.321/.399 line ges even uglier.

 

His .294 OBP in 377 ABs this year screams "pretty good job" to me.

 

Did I mention he is an awful defensive SS?

 

That's nice but he's been good two of three years as a starter, which is more than Cedeno will probably say. He's not good defensively, but not anemic. He'll get the job done. He's not any worse than Theriot.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'd rather make a serious run at Tejada or Renteria. Those two will be expensive, but they also are certain to be upgrades over what we have.

[reds44]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once.

 

That's nice. He wasn't a full-time starter until he was 25 and got a lot of on the job training as a young player. Since then he's been pretty good with most of his OPS being OBP-driven (which means OPS underrates him).

That's nice. Remove 2005 and his .258/.321/.399 line ges even uglier.

 

His .294 OBP in 377 ABs this year screams "pretty good job" to me.

 

Did I mention he is an awful defensive SS?

 

That's nice but he's been good two of three years as a starter, which is more than Cedeno will probably say. He's not good defensively, but not anemic. He'll get the job done. He's not any worse than Theriot.

No, he's pretty awful defensively. He doesn't have good range, and makes alot of errors.

 

You can remove all of his career stats you want and focus on his two good years (although last year wasn't even good), but that doesn't change the fact for the majority of his career, including this year, he has been bad.

 

His bad defensively, and his offense doesn't do anything to make up for it. This year, his offensive troubles have added to is defensive troubles.

 

There's no reason to go out and give up something for a guy like that. He is at best on par with Theriot.

Edited July 24, 2007 by reds44

[Prior4CyYoung]

Lopez can't field and hasn't hit this year.

 

Deadly combo.

 

That's nice. I'm a forward-thinker.

"That's nice", now foward-think this.

 

In Lopez's 7 season, he has posted an OPS above .750 once.

 

That's nice. He wasn't a full-time starter until he was 25 and got a lot of on the job training as a young player. Since then he's been pretty good with most of his OPS being OBP-driven (which means OPS underrates him).

That's nice. Remove 2005 and his .258/.321/.399 line ges even uglier.

 

His .294 OBP in 377 ABs this year screams "pretty good job" to me.

 

Did I mention he is an awful defensive SS?

 

That's nice but he's been good two of three years as a starter, which is more than Cedeno will probably say. He's not good defensively, but not anemic. He'll get the job done. He's not any worse than Theriot.

 

I would rather have A-rod

[Mephistopheles]

You can remove all of his career stats you want and focus on his two good years (although last year wasn't even good), but that doesn't change the fact for the majority of his career, including this year, he has been bad.

 

His bad defensively, and his offense doesn't do anything to make up for it. This year, his offensive troubles have added to is defensive troubles.

 

There's no reason to go out and give up something for a guy like that. He is at best on par with Theriot.

 

Of course I am going to focus on those two years. To say that Lopez's 20-24 age seasons mean anything after two years of being an above average hitter (overall!) not to mention a lot more above average at SS is kinda foolhardy.

 

On defense he's not good, but Wrigley's grass and the fact most of our pitching staff are either neutral or flyball prone pitchers will minimize the hit on defense. His bat will probably give us a league average shortstop overall -- something Theriot does not.

 

Again, I'm not saying Lopez is going to be an All-Star, I'm saying he fills up a hole at a pretty good rate. He's no superstar, but he's certainly not what hes done this year.

 

I'd rather make a serious run at Tejada or Renteria. Those two will be expensive, but they also are certain to be upgrades over what we have.

 

Well of course I would rather do that. I just don't see our system having the firepower to outbid other teams who may be interested. We can get lucky on this deal and then make a sure upgrade elsewhere. We've upgraded the team and we've made a deal that will probably upgrade the team

[Rob]

Hopefully it can be transferred back once 80% of the posts that had nothing to do with the subject matter are cut out. I don't have time to do that tonight; perhaps another mod does.

 

This thread will not be transferred. Post about the subject matter, not about other posters.

 

Be forewarned: If this thread gets derailed, the posters who derail it will be removed in lieu of the thread. This is your only warning, and it applies to everyone.

 

Thanks and enjoy your evening.

 

Oh, you crazy broad. :wink:

 

I'm not sold on Lopez having anything resembling real power, even for a SS. 2005 seems likely to be his career year, and it's mostly park-driven. That being said, perhaps a move to a contender would help him focus a bit more, and if he could, he could be a slight upgrade over Theriot at short. He'd cost us more on defense, but he'd be pretty likely to sustain a higher enough OBP to be a net positive for us, production wise. I would question the deal based on how much talent and how much money we'd be on the hook for, though.

 

The problem in my eyes is that Cedeno has the potential to put up comparable offensive numbers overall (a bit more slugging, a bit less OBP), while being a large boost to us defensively. And since he was just called up according to ESPN, I'd rather take my chances with Cedeno.

[reds44]

Lopez is at best a lateral move.

[soccer10k]

So how long before this thread gets derailed? :wink:

[NCCubFan]

It's not going to this time, or as Laura warned, heads will roll.

[soccer10k]

It's not going to this time, or as Laura warned, heads will roll.

 

Heh. Yeah. I only read the first two lines of Laura's post before making mine and read the other two after.

 

But to get on the topic, I would much rather see what Cedeno can do at shortstop instead of trading for an average guy like Felipe Lopez. Obviously if the Cubs got ARod (I know, not happening before the trade deadline), who cares what they do with Cedeno. But since that's not happening, give Ronny his shot.