Should Barry be allowed in the Hall.

[seanimal]

Absolutely, I could care less about steroids. Just keep them out from now on and it doesn't really bother me.

[soccer10k]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

I don't know much about Game of Shadows or the circus around it. I refuse to read that or Conseco's book or any of that stuff that's hellbent simply on slamming people and profiting off the streroid buzz. But didn't the two guys who wrote it refuse to give up their sources? Meaning they could've been making all of that up? I have no doubt that Bonds was on some kind of performance enhancer at some point. He admitted to the cream and the clear in court, just as McGwire admitted using Andro. But the whole Game of Shadows thing always seemed a little fishy to me.

 

Not that you're necessarily doing this but comparing Canseco's book to Game of Shadows is unfair to the authors of Game of Shadows. The two guys who wrote GoS worked for the SF Chronicle and started covering the BALCO when the original raid happened. The book focuses on BALCO and Victor Conte as a whole and not Bonds, though Bonds is obviously a big part of it. It also talks about Jason Giambi, Marion Jones, and other track stars. I highly, highly doubt that these guys are just making this stuff up.

 

Like Andy, I also applaud and admire them for not revealing their sources when faced with jail time because I'm not sure I would have been able to do the same.

 

As for the actual question, yes Bonds should be get into the HOF.

[Derwood]

One of Arizona D-Backs was on ESPNRadio several weeks ago (Eric Byrnes??? Don't remember). He was pretty outspoken about the steroids ordeal. His point was a good one: What is the goal of the Mitchell inquiry, the congress hearings, etc.? In other words, if Bud outed ever player who has ever done steroids, what does that achieve? Where does it end?

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

I don't know much about Game of Shadows or the circus around it. I refuse to read that or Conseco's book or any of that stuff that's hellbent simply on slamming people and profiting off the streroid buzz. But didn't the two guys who wrote it refuse to give up their sources? Meaning they could've been making all of that up? I have no doubt that Bonds was on some kind of performance enhancer at some point. He admitted to the cream and the clear in court, just as McGwire admitted using Andro. But the whole Game of Shadows thing always seemed a little fishy to me.

They refused to give up their sources because their sources had obtained the testimony illegally. They offered confidentiality to their sources in exchange for the information and stuck to that offer. I admire that.

I know it's probably true, but that's what always sounded fishy to me. There is absolutely no way of knowing that these "sources" really exist. I could say that I know Lou Piniella wears a dress when he's at home, I can't tell you where I got that information from though, because it was obtained illegally and I want to protect the people who gave it to me. And I'm willing to face jail time defending that, probably because it'd be better to do a little time than to be exposed publicly as a fraud.

 

None if it matters though, Bonds admitted it. I don't need to read a book to know that, and I still say he belongs in the Hall.

[cbbryan]

Barry was a HOFer before he ever took steroids. For that reason, he belongs without a doubt.

 

Pete Rose was a HOFer before he bet on baseball too.

 

I think they should both be in the HOF, though.

[The Voice of Reason]

Link

 

Suspensions by position

 

Pitchers make up the largest percentage of the 157 players who have been suspended over the past two seasons.

 

Pitchers: 87 [55 percent]

Infielders: 32 [20 percent]

Outfielders: 20 [13 percent]

Catchers: 18 [12 percent]

 

Source: Database analysis by ESPN.com.

 

Come on TT, what about HGH? I think hitters are much more inclined to use HGH than pitchers. How many pitchers put on 75 pounds of bulk like Bonds?

 

You are a stat expert. How do you explain the huge increase in the number of players with over 50 home runs during the steroid era? The huge increase in HR's by players in their mid 30's? I believe Bonds had never hit 50, then he hits 73?

 

I'm not buying the smaller park argument. The huge statistical increase in home runs occured because of the advantages offered to the home run hitters by HGH and steroids. There is no other logical explanation.

 

Yes he belongs in the Hall of Fame but his"accomplishment" of passing Aaron should be compared with those of Ben Johnson, Floyd Landis, Rosie Ruiz, etc.

[NCCubFan]

He should be in the Hall even if it's proven he cheated. The Hall of Fame is about the game's history, not about keeping out anyone that cheated/gambled/was a bad person.

Based on this logic I assume you think Pete Rose and Joe Jackson should be in as well, and I agree. What they did was wrong, but didn't undo their accomplishments as a player. I agree with their lifetime bans as far as future involvement in baseball is concerned, but I disagree with the rule that a lifetime ban prevents a player from being elected. And I believe that's a HOF rule, not a MLB rule.

[Andy]

probably at least half the guys pitching to him were on roids too, and a lot of his peers (hitters) were also juicing. So it's not like he had a massive competitive disadvantage.

 

 

Based on what evidence can you say half the guys pitching to him were on roids?

 

The evidence against Bonds is overwhelming (See Game of Shadows)- you're just speculating about the percentage of pitchers on roids to try to help your case.

I don't know much about Game of Shadows or the circus around it. I refuse to read that or Conseco's book or any of that stuff that's hellbent simply on slamming people and profiting off the streroid buzz. But didn't the two guys who wrote it refuse to give up their sources? Meaning they could've been making all of that up? I have no doubt that Bonds was on some kind of performance enhancer at some point. He admitted to the cream and the clear in court, just as McGwire admitted using Andro. But the whole Game of Shadows thing always seemed a little fishy to me.

They refused to give up their sources because their sources had obtained the testimony illegally. They offered confidentiality to their sources in exchange for the information and stuck to that offer. I admire that.

I know it's probably true, but that's what always sounded fishy to me. There is absolutely no way of knowing that these "sources" really exist. I could say that I know Lou Piniella wears a dress when he's at home, I can't tell you where I got that information from though, because it was obtained illegally and I want to protect the people who gave it to me. And I'm willing to face jail time defending that, probably because it'd be better to do a little time than to be exposed publicly as a fraud.

 

None if it matters though, Bonds admitted it. I don't need to read a book to know that, and I still say he belongs in the Hall.

I could be mistaken, but a few months ago, whoever the source was (I forget who) came out and admitted he'd done it. This kept Fainaru-Wada and Williams from going to jail.

[soccer10k]

He should be in the Hall even if it's proven he cheated. The Hall of Fame is about the game's history, not about keeping out anyone that cheated/gambled/was a bad person.

Based on this logic I assume you think Pete Rose and Joe Jackson should be in as well, and I agree. What they did was wrong, but didn't undo their accomplishments as a player. I agree with their lifetime bans as far as future involvement in baseball is concerned, but I disagree with the rule that a lifetime ban prevents a player from being elected. And I believe that's a HOF rule, not a MLB rule.

 

At least the Joe Jackson Black Sox scandal happened when he was a player.

 

I think Rose should be in as a player and there should be mention that he was caught betting on baseball as a manager. But he should be in as a player.

 

Jackson I'm on the fence about.

[NCCubFan]

Jackson I'm on the fence about.

I think Jackson belongs for the sole reason that his performance in the Series was too good to suggest that he went through with throwing the Series. He was extremely illiterate and lied to by others, and I think he honestly didn't really know all the facts.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

I know it's probably true, but that's what always sounded fishy to me. There is absolutely no way of knowing that these "sources" really exist. I could say that I know Lou Piniella wears a dress when he's at home, I can't tell you where I got that information from though, because it was obtained illegally and I want to protect the people who gave it to me. And I'm willing to face jail time defending that, probably because it'd be better to do a little time than to be exposed publicly as a fraud.

 

None if it matters though, Bonds admitted it. I don't need to read a book to know that, and I still say he belongs in the Hall.

I could be mistaken, but a few months ago, whoever the source was (I forget who) came out and admitted he'd done it. This kept Fainaru-Wada and Williams from going to jail.

Ahh, gotcha. Like I said, I don't know much about the book or the circus around it. I saw it as two guys trying to profit off of something that probably shouldn't be profited off of. So I kind of ignored it entirely.

[soccer10k]

Jackson I'm on the fence about.

I think Jackson belongs for the sole reason that his performance in the Series was too good to suggest that he went through with throwing the Series. He was extremely illiterate and lied to by others, and I think he honestly didn't really know all the facts.

 

Yeah, I just don't know enough about the situation to make a decision either way. I know the basics of what happened but no specifics.

[Skyballer]

I'm glad so many agree with me about Barry being a HOF'er. I would like to know the percentage of people regarding Rose but I think it would be 100%, as it should be. So I won't even start that poll.