Chicago Cobs Catchers

[abuck1220]

Here's a stat for you guys that's positive:

 

Since Michael Barrett has been gone, the Cubs catchers have zero passed balls.

 

and zero hits.

 

seriously, the catching is a problem. i can't believe people are like "oh well, we're winning, so it's ok." it's gonna catch up to them.

 

They don't have zero hits but ok.

 

really? i'm gonna have to fire someone on my research staff...

[Carlos Zambrano]

True. I think that Soto will bring some hitting to that spot. If not could we not try to get David Ross from the Reds. The Reds are in the tank, and while he only hits about .188 at least he'll hit ya a homerun. He has 14 on the year.

[Bote McBoteface]

Catcher is a defensive position. Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT pathetic offensively, but the fact is our pitching for the most part has been superb since Barrett's departure. Two easy outs at the #8 and #9 hole is definitely a bad thing, but we did manage to score 9 runs off of a guy named Roy Oswalt today, so it's not exactly killing us at the moment.

 

With any luck, Soto can provide at least a little bit of offense out of the catcher spot.

[Keener98]

Our two primary catchers since Barrett was traded:

 

148/217/230

 

074/188/111

 

I'd rather have a few more passed balls and a little better hitting that. :puker:

 

yeah, people like to imagine that every barrett passed ball cost the cubs 10 runs.

 

Well you must not have known that everytime Barret had a passed ball the Cubs lost, and look the pitchers are kicking ass right now, and Peavy is hurting see what Michael Barret did.

[Mephistopheles]

lol catcher is a defensive position. c'mon i thought we all graduated from that school of thought

[abuck1220]

Catcher is a defensive position.

 

says who?

 

Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT pathetic offensively, but the fact is our pitching for the most part has been superb since Barrett's departure.

 

and it was pretty good before barrett's departure. and the last couple seasons when barrett was catching.

 

Two easy outs at the #8 and #9 hole is definitely a bad thing, but we did manage to score 9 runs off of a guy named Roy Oswalt today, so it's not exactly killing us at the moment.

 

well, that settles it then. also, izturis batted second today, so i guess we better leave him there all season.

[Keener98]

Catcher is a defensive position. Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT pathetic offensively, but the fact is our pitching for the most part has been superb since Barrett's departure. Two easy outs at the #8 and #9 hole is definitely a bad thing, but we did manage to score 9 runs off of a guy named Roy Oswalt today, so it's not exactly killing us at the moment.

 

With any luck, Soto can provide at least a little bit of offense out of the catcher spot.

 

I swear if I hear this crap 1 more time, Im going to bang my head repeatedly into a wall. THE CUBS HAVE BEEN WINNING IN SPITE OF THEIR CATCHERS, what part of that is hard to figure out. The Cubs starting pitchers were pitching just fine the entire month of April with Barret catching also, so whats your point

[abuck1220]

lol catcher is a defensive position. c'mon i thought we all graduated from that school of thought

 

you didn't really think that. come on.

 

also, i'd like to declare left field a defensive position. and third base is an offensive position. second base is half and half. right field is like 2/5 offense, 2/5 defense, 1/5 semi-sweet chocolate chips. centerfield is almost entirely moxie.

[Keener98]

lol catcher is a defensive position. c'mon i thought we all graduated from that school of thought

 

OMG we agree on something, wtf :D

[Sarcastic]

Good god, people, when can we put to rest the idea that catchers determine how good the pitching is?

 

Factors more important to a pitcher's success than his catcher:

 

1. His pitching skill

2. His opponents' batting skill

3. His fielders' skill

4. Park factors

 

Whatever intangibles a catcher contributes are nothing compared to the factors outside his control. Comparing the performances of pitchers throwing to different catchers is totally worthless due to the variance of the above factors and luck.

 

To cement this point:

 

Barrett's CERA w/ the Cubs: 4.26

Backup C's CERA while Barrett was here: 4.32

*courtesy of Warren Brusstar

[abuck1220]

wait...so you're telling me that a squatting guy holding a stationary mitt doesn't have much of an effect on how a guy throwing a ball 60 feet away performs? now i've heard it all.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Team record by starting catcher

 

CUBS are 24-28 when Barrett starts at catcher
CUBS are 3-7 when Blanco starts at catcher
CUBS are 12-5 when K Hill starts at catcher
CUBS are 6-3 when Bowen starts at catcher
CUBS are 1-0 when Soto starts at catcher

 

I just don't understand why everybody wants to throw Koyie Hill under the bus..... he's the best catcher we've got !!!

 

CUBS were 32-37 (.464) when they traded Barrett..... and 14-6 (.700) since !!!

 

04/02 - 07/14      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS  BABIP
Barrett           211   23   54    9    0    9   90   28   19   36  0.256  0.313  0.427  0.740  0.271
Blanco             36    3    7    2    0    0    9    3    2    6  0.194  0.231  0.250  0.481  0.233
K Hill             65    5   10    2    0    1   15    6    5    9  0.154  0.219  0.231  0.450  0.164
Bowen              31    3    2    1    0    0    3    2    4   13  0.065  0.167  0.097  0.263  0.111
Soto                5    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    2  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000

Totals            348   35   73   14    0   10  117   39   30   66  0.210  0.269  0.336  0.606  0.232

 

Barrett wasn't exactly having a great year..... but you always have to ask... compared to what ???

[Jazz]

hopefully this will make you guys feel better:

 

Barrett so far with SD: .265/.265/.327 SLG , 0 HR, 0 BB, 2 R, 3 2B, 1 Error, and 2 Passed Balls.

 

Hopefully Soto can do better than that.

[Sarcastic]

hopefully this will make you guys feel better:

 

Barrett so far with SD: .265/.265/.327 SLG , 0 HR, 0 BB, 2 R, 3 2B, 1 Error, and 2 Passed Balls.

 

Hopefully Soto can do better than that.

 

That actually makes it worse. As bad as Barrett has been since the Cubs traded him, he STILL would have been a significant improvement over the garbage on the team now.

[Keener98]

hopefully this will make you guys feel better:

 

Barrett so far with SD: .265/.265/.327 SLG , 0 HR, 0 BB, 2 R, 3 2B, 1 Error, and 2 Passed Balls.

 

Hopefully Soto can do better than that.

id killl for a .265 rite now

[Guest]

Catcher is a defensive position. Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT pathetic offensively, but the fact is our pitching for the most part has been superb since Barrett's departure. Two easy outs at the #8 and #9 hole is definitely a bad thing, but we did manage to score 9 runs off of a guy named Roy Oswalt today, so it's not exactly killing us at the moment.

 

With any luck, Soto can provide at least a little bit of offense out of the catcher spot.

 

Of course the pitching for the most part was superb before Barrett's departure.

[forbez18]

How can you say that a catcher is not a big determinate on how a pitcher will performe. Yes, you can say that a pitcher has the final decision on what type of pitch to throw every time. However, a pitcher must trust their catcher to work fast if they choose, and must know how to set up a batter. The catcher is also the captain on the field. A good catcher comands the attention of every other fielder to rely on getting set up to make the plays. A pitcher must know that they can throw the ball in the dirt and the ball will be blocked, and that they dont have to rush everything if someone is on base because their catcher will throw them out if they try and steal. A catcher can also help get strikes that otherwise would be balls, by good frame work with the glove. The ability to make the routine plays (bunts, backing up, blocking, and recieving) are only the begining. If you talk to any catcher you also know that they are an extended pitching coach. They have to know their pitchers and be able to relax them and let them pitch, if they see something wrong they can run out and mention it. There are a million things a catcher can do to help influence a game.

[Dirt Dog Sparly]

A pitcher that dosent trust a catcher to block the best hook or slider in the dirt that they have is going to throw their second best pitch. You get beat on your second best pitch.

 

Stats are a result of humans playing a game. When we can measure the emotional and mental states of players with stats then I will ignore what body language and pitching patterns tell me.

 

As for now stats are a very good tool to further our understanding of the games situations, matchups, and deeper interactions. You ignore them at your own peril. Ignoring the human factor is just as dangerous.

 

 

That being said I seem to recall a couple of hard hit line drives that resulted in outs in that 2 for 57+ stretch. Looking at the results of a series of at bats is just like looking at ERA. It dosent always tell the whole story.

[Mephistopheles]

oh please stop having blind faith. your a cubs fan.

[Fred Hornkohl]

You just can't find any significant difference in the overall numbers of the pitching staff before and after the departure of Michael Barrett. In a way, this is a little surprising to me, since, when you look at each pitcher individually, you see very different things. Zambrano for example with the very slow start and the hot streak recently..... Marquis with the real hot streak to open, then pretty bad lately... etc, etc. Anyway.... here's how the whole pitching staff breaks out........

 

04/02 - 07/14        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
CUBS w/Barrett    627.0  563  290  271  228  510   77  3.27  7.32  1.11  1.26  3.89
CUBS without      176.3  159   81   76   67  170   17  3.42  8.68  0.87  1.28  3.88
CUBS overall      803.3  722  371  347  295  680   94  3.30  7.62  1.05  1.27  3.89

[Sarcastic]

How can you say that a catcher is not a big determinate on how a pitcher will performe. Yes, you can say that a pitcher has the final decision on what type of pitch to throw every time. However, a pitcher must trust their catcher to work fast if they choose, and must know how to set up a batter. The catcher is also the captain on the field. A good catcher comands the attention of every other fielder to rely on getting set up to make the plays. A pitcher must know that they can throw the ball in the dirt and the ball will be blocked, and that they dont have to rush everything if someone is on base because their catcher will throw them out if they try and steal. A catcher can also help get strikes that otherwise would be balls, by good frame work with the glove. The ability to make the routine plays (bunts, backing up, blocking, and recieving) are only the begining. If you talk to any catcher you also know that they are an extended pitching coach. They have to know their pitchers and be able to relax them and let them pitch, if they see something wrong they can run out and mention it. There are a million things a catcher can do to help influence a game.

 

Catchers can influence the game in many ways. But you miss the point, which is that despite the fact that they have influence, other factors are much more significant. I don't care how much confidence a pitcher has in his catcher, if his breaking pitch sucks, it will be hit. If his opponents are good, he will be hit. If the fielders behind him suck, balls will get through.

 

The value of the catcher's role as pitching coach is so much less imporant than those things that it doesn't make a visible difference in the actual statistics. See Fred's stats on the staff on the last page.

[abuck1220]

You just can't find any significant difference in the overall numbers of the pitching staff before and after the departure of Michael Barrett. In a way, this is a little surprising to me, since, when you look at each pitcher individually, you see very different things. Zambrano for example with the very slow start and the hot streak recently..... Marquis with the real hot streak to open, then pretty bad lately... etc, etc. Anyway.... here's how the whole pitching staff breaks out........

 

04/02 - 07/14        IP    H    R   ER   BB    K   HR  BB/9   K/9  HR/9  WHIP   ERA
CUBS w/Barrett    627.0  563  290  271  228  510   77  3.27  7.32  1.11  1.26  3.89
CUBS without      176.3  159   81   76   67  170   17  3.42  8.68  0.87  1.28  3.88
CUBS overall      803.3  722  371  347  295  680   94  3.30  7.62  1.05  1.27  3.89

 

that's great. i love it.

[Bote McBoteface]

Catcher is a defensive position. Obviously, it shouldn't be THAT pathetic offensively, but the fact is our pitching for the most part has been superb since Barrett's departure. Two easy outs at the #8 and #9 hole is definitely a bad thing, but we did manage to score 9 runs off of a guy named Roy Oswalt today, so it's not exactly killing us at the moment.

 

With any luck, Soto can provide at least a little bit of offense out of the catcher spot.

 

I swear if I hear this crap 1 more time, Im going to bang my head repeatedly into a wall. THE CUBS HAVE BEEN WINNING IN SPITE OF THEIR CATCHERS, what part of that is hard to figure out. The Cubs starting pitchers were pitching just fine the entire month of April with Barret catching also, so whats your point

 

Catcher is a defensive position, dude.

[abuck1220]

sold.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

This is what Cubs catchers have hit this year:

 

.205/262/328.

 

We could use an upgrade. If we had kept Barrett. We wouldn't need that upgrade.