Pujols?

[Bruno7481]

I predict Pujols will open the second half like a madman. Hitting about 10 homeruns in 15 games. LaRussa will then be applauded for his motivational skills.

[NCCubFan]

"Let me ask you this. If we go to extra innings, who's going to be our player to move around and play? Can Dmitri move around and play? Or is Albert going to do that? Who's the most versatile guy not playing? It's Albert. It isn't even that tough. He'll figure it out sooner or later.

Um, Tony, you DO realize that you actually need to tie the game for extra innings to even become an issue, don't you? And Pujols is your best bet to tie the game.

[bring stone back]

K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise.

 

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes

 

Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike.

 

Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise.

 

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes

 

Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike.

 

Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

 

Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of).

[Ding Dong Johnson]

K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise.

 

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes

 

Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike.

 

Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

 

Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of).

 

exactly, the likely scenario there is that was the one pitch Pujols would have swung at

[CubinNY]

"Let me ask you this. If we go to extra innings, who's going to be our player to move around and play? Can Dmitri move around and play? Or is Albert going to do that? Who's the most versatile guy not playing? It's Albert. It isn't even that tough. He'll figure it out sooner or later.

Um, Tony, you DO realize that you actually need to tie the game for extra innings to even become an issue, don't you? And Pujols is your best bet to tie the game.

 

I didn't see the game but it reminds me of a game in Pittsburgh where Dusty put in Fontenot to bat late in the game instead of Dubois becuase he was saving Dubois for extra innings. The Cubs did eventually come back to win the game, but it had noting to do with Fontenot or Dubios.

[bring stone back]

K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise.

 

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes

 

Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike.

 

Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

 

Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of).

 

Nearly every player in the same position as Rowand last night would have taken the first pitch just as he did. You can't say the first pitch is often the best to hit with the bases loaded - especially after 3 consecutive walks because the pitcher has no idea where it's going. That is why you take a pitch.

 

What did Rowand in was he wasn't as good or as confident as Pujols and got defensive quick and was just looking to make contact on anything instead of going down 0-2.

 

I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

 

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols

[bring stone back]

K-Rod walked three guys in a row and completely lost the strike zone....swinging at the first pitch would have not been wise.

 

unless you're a hitter as good as Albert Pujols and can easily deposit that pitch into the left field seats because you're waiting for it and it comes

 

Pujols historically takes quite a few first pitches and is a very smart hitter. When a pitcher walks 3 guys in a row and is all over the place like K-Rod was you make him pitch a strike. Pujols or any other hitter likely isn't looking for a certain pitch - just making the guy prove he can throw a strike.

 

Even Jeff Francouer would have likely taken the first pitch there.

 

Despite the control issues, the first pitch is often the best pitch you'll get with the bases loaded. Even more so after a couple walks, the pitcher wants to get ahead to avoid walking in the run, so a good hitter would sit dead red on a fastball and not be afraid to swing if he got one(but at the same time realize it has to be "his" pitch, which Pujols is certainly capable of).

 

exactly, the likely scenario there is that was the one pitch Pujols would have swung at

 

Are you being serious?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Are you being serious?

 

yes, I'm being serious. in that situation, a good (and disciplined) hitter will look for 1 pitch in 1 zone to swing at. anything outside that zone will be taken, strike or not. k-rod grooved a fastball just to get a strike, and odds are that would be the 1 pitch that a good hitter like Pujols would have been looking to swing at

[bring stone back]

I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

 

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols

 

Okay. Even though K-Rod wasn't able to locate more than 2-3 fastballs for strikes over the course of 3 hitters Pujols should just assume he'll groove a first pitch fastball right down the heart of the plate and find the strike zone with no problem, right? What if he throws a nasty slider in the dirt while you're looking fastball and you're down 0-1? You take the first pitch after 3 consecutive walks regardless of who you are and who's pitching.

 

Let's say this was a Cubs game in this exact same position. Down by one...closer walks 3 straight wildly and someone swings at the first pitch with the bases loaded and flies out or pops up. You and every other member on this board would have went ballistic talking about how this team is so stupid, isn't patient at the plate and someone probably would have blamed Dusty Baker.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

 

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols

 

Okay. Even though K-Rod wasn't able to locate more than 2-3 fastballs for strikes over the course of 3 hitters Pujols should just assume he'll groove a first pitch fastball right down the heart of the plate and find the strike zone with no problem, right? What if he throws a nasty slider in the dirt while you're looking fastball and you're down 0-1? You take the first pitch after 3 consecutive walks regardless of who you are and who's pitching.

 

Let's say this was a Cubs game in this exact same position. Down by one...closer walks 3 straight wildly and someone swings at the first pitch with the bases loaded and flies out or pops up. You and every other member on this board would have went ballistic talking about how this team is so stupid, isn't patient at the plate and someone probably would have blamed Dusty Baker.

 

we're not talking about you or some 11th grader batting 8th in a JV game, we're discussing Albert Pujols. he's not assuming he'll get a BP fastball, he's making up his mind that that's the only sort of pitch he will swing at. anything outside of that location, slower speed, spin, etc, and he lays off

 

if K-Rod just threw 28 consecutive balls, I still wouldn't fault someone like Pujols for swinging at the 29th pitch if it was a fastball in his wheelhouse

[bring stone back]

I know many on this board disagree, but I am ALL for swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but certainly not in that case. It's not smart.

 

but it's very smart if it's the 1 pitch you're looking for and you're Albert Pujols

 

Okay. Even though K-Rod wasn't able to locate more than 2-3 fastballs for strikes over the course of 3 hitters Pujols should just assume he'll groove a first pitch fastball right down the heart of the plate and find the strike zone with no problem, right? What if he throws a nasty slider in the dirt while you're looking fastball and you're down 0-1? You take the first pitch after 3 consecutive walks regardless of who you are and who's pitching.

 

Let's say this was a Cubs game in this exact same position. Down by one...closer walks 3 straight wildly and someone swings at the first pitch with the bases loaded and flies out or pops up. You and every other member on this board would have went ballistic talking about how this team is so stupid, isn't patient at the plate and someone probably would have blamed Dusty Baker.

 

we're not talking about you or some 11th grader batting 8th in a JV game, we're discussing Albert Pujols. he's not assuming he'll get a BP fastball, he's making up his mind that that's the only sort of pitch he will swing at. anything outside of that location, slower speed, spin, etc, and he lays off

 

if K-Rod just threw 28 consecutive balls, I still wouldn't fault someone like Pujols for swinging at the 29th pitch if it was a fastball in his wheelhouse

 

We're not talking about me batting against K-Rod? Oh....somebody needs to tell me these things - I didn't have proper perspective. Now that I know we're talking about Albert Pujols hitting it would still be foolish to swing at the first pitch in that case.

 

Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept.

 

(If there is a Junior in high school batting 8th in a JV game he should quit. He's probably not very good).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept.

 

Not quite.

[bring stone back]

Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept.

 

Not quite.

 

You're right....those few would blame it on Dusty Baker.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Didn't A-Ram's homer off Francisco Cordero come off a first pitch 'get me over slider' or something to that effect? I agree that when you're facing the nastiest of relief pitchers, you're only to get one decent pitch to hit (if that). Whether that comes on the 1st pitch or the 6th, when it comes you'd better be ready, especially if you are your team's designated run producer (as Ramirez and Pujols are).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept.

 

Not quite.

 

You're right....those few would blame it on Dusty Baker.

 

Give me a break. Stop speaking for groups of other people by stereotyping them. Personally, I've stood up for Cub players that have swung at the first pitch with the bases loaded on several occasions this year in game threads.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Didn't A-Ram's homer off Francisco Cordero come off a first pitch 'get me over slider' or something to that effect? I agree that when you're facing the nastiest of relief pitchers, you're only to get one decent pitch to hit (if that). Whether that comes on the 1st pitch or the 6th, when it comes you'd better be ready, especially if you are your team's designated run producer (as Ramirez and Pujols are).

 

Yeah, Ramirez's homer was definitely on the first pitch.

[bring stone back]

Like I said, if it were a Cubs game in that situation and the Cubs' batter swings at the first pitch and pops up would you be understanding? Of course not - you and every other poster would be going nuts saying the team/organization/player is so inept.

 

Not quite.

 

You're right....those few would blame it on Dusty Baker.

 

Give me a break. Stop speaking for groups of other people by stereotyping them. Personally, I've stood up for Cub players that have swung at the first pitch with the bases loaded on several occasions this year in game threads.

 

Have you ever read any of these threads on this board?

 

I feel the exact same way. I was/am in full support of swinging at the first pitch if it's what you're looking for but not after a pitcher with a tendency to get wild does get wild and walks 3 straight.

 

If you tell me to look first pitch strike and be ready to swing after a pitching change or a mound visit - maybe.

[kente777]

There comes a time when a manager must have full faith in a batter based on his maturity/past performance to swing when they feel they have their pitch -- even if it's the first one. In football, there are very few QB's where a coach would let them call their own game, for example, Peyton Manning. I believe Pujols is that kind of player. I think he's proven himself enough, so you trust him. If he bats in that situation, you don't give him the red light. You let him swing away, even if it is the first pitch. If he pops out, oh well.

 

You have two different philosophies....if a pitcher walks the bases loaded, you take the first pitch based on his wildness. Or....you figure he's not going to want to walk a run in so he's going to serve a nice fastball down the middle of the plate. I see merits in both philosophies. As to which one is best, I think it depends on the batter.

[UBlink]

Give me a break. Stop speaking for groups of other people by stereotyping them. Personally, I've stood up for Cub players that have swung at the first pitch with the bases loaded on several occasions this year in game threads.

 

While I normally don't enter the discussion in the game threads on this subject I have always been more impressed with the argument TT is making. When a pitcher has been wild and needs to avoid a walk and the batter is a competent batter, have him look for his pitch on pitch 1 (and pitch 2 and pitch 3 etc.). In that situation there's no reason to swing at a pitcher's pitch because he's unlikely to be able to get that over the plate. If the pitcher knows you're not going to swing at pitch 1 it just puts you down in the count automatically.

[hardcorecubfan]

You can't empty your bench at the All-Star Game*, you just can't.

 

*Exceptions if you have someone get hurt or if the alternative is letting a pitcher hit in an important situation.

Or if its the bottom of the 9th, the game, bragging rights, and homefield advantage in the world series are on the line, and you have arguably the best hitter in baseball as the last guy on your bench.

 

Exactly, like the old saying in the NFL, in the last cpl of seconds play for the tie on the road and go for the win at home. Or is is it the other way around????

does it matter TLR did have the huevos to finish it.

[hardcorecubfan]

Question for for the ST. Louis surrounding people, what is the local media saying right now about it?

[bring stone back]

There comes a time when a manager must have full faith in a batter based on his maturity/past performance to swing when they feel they have their pitch -- even if it's the first one. In football, there are very few QB's where a coach would let them call their own game, for example, Peyton Manning. I believe Pujols is that kind of player. I think he's proven himself enough, so you trust him. If he bats in that situation, you don't give him the red light. You let him swing away, even if it is the first pitch. If he pops out, oh well.

 

You have two different philosophies....if a pitcher walks the bases loaded, you take the first pitch based on his wildness. Or....you figure he's not going to want to walk a run in so he's going to serve a nice fastball down the middle of the plate. I see merits in both philosophies. As to which one is best, I think it depends on the batter.

 

Using that philosophy, wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run came to the plate? Wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run got on base and then in scoring position? Of course he did....just because the bases became loaded didn't mean he had this ability to throw a first pitch strike which he wasn't able to do to any previous hitter.

 

Those decisions ultimately come down to the hitter when you're dealing with a player like Pujols. They always get the green light. I don't think any manager has any say there.

[dew1679666265]

There comes a time when a manager must have full faith in a batter based on his maturity/past performance to swing when they feel they have their pitch -- even if it's the first one. In football, there are very few QB's where a coach would let them call their own game, for example, Peyton Manning. I believe Pujols is that kind of player. I think he's proven himself enough, so you trust him. If he bats in that situation, you don't give him the red light. You let him swing away, even if it is the first pitch. If he pops out, oh well.

 

You have two different philosophies....if a pitcher walks the bases loaded, you take the first pitch based on his wildness. Or....you figure he's not going to want to walk a run in so he's going to serve a nice fastball down the middle of the plate. I see merits in both philosophies. As to which one is best, I think it depends on the batter.

 

Using that philosophy, wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run came to the plate? Wouldn't he want to throw a first pitch strike when the winning run got on base and then in scoring position? Of course he did....just because the bases became loaded didn't mean he had this ability to throw a first pitch strike which he wasn't able to do to any previous hitter.

 

Those decisions ultimately come down to the hitter when you're dealing with a player like Pujols. They always get the green light. I don't think any manager has any say there.

 

A pitcher almost always has the ability to groove a fastball down the middle of the plate (with the exception of Rick Ankiel). So why did K-Rod not groove one earlier? The bases weren't loaded and it was less important to not walk the batter.

 

Once the bases were loaded, a walk tied the game so K-Rod couldn't afford to fall behind in the count. The hitter has to recognize that and look for a fastball down the middle. If he gets a fastball grooved down the middle he should swing, any other pitch he should lay off of.