According to Buster Olney, Lou has lost the team already

[Bruno7481]

 

Lou has put those bullpen guys in spots where they are poised to fail though. He hasn't done them any favors.

 

So it is all Lou's fault that they have sucked? Your a reliever, when you get put in a game your job is to get people out regardless of the situation. Quit putting the blame on Lou for their ineffectiveness.

 

Maybe the first couple times, but after it was apparent that Eyre and Howry couldn't be counted on in close/late situations, he ran them out there anyway, over and over. That's on him. He's the one putting the ineffective players in critical spots.

 

So which relievers do you go with? You only have so many. It is also not Lou's decision to ship those guys out, so you have to use them at some point. Its not like there are many clearly better options, maybe 1 or 2.

[NomarSammy]

 

Who has he thrown under the bus?

 

Barrett, Ohman, Cotts, Eyre, Murton, Jones...

 

I think your definition of "throwing under the bus" must be closely related to speaking the truth. Barrett, Ohman, Eyre, Cotts, and Jones have been brutal.

 

What did he do with Murton?

 

Come on. That's a really simplistic view of management. I could "speak the truth" about some of the people I work with who I'm above, but it wouldn't help anyone in any way. You don't handle any professional by calling them out in public. You hold them accountable behind closed doors. You can call out the team, but calling out individuals is just stupid and childish, and it's indicative of someone who has no idea how to handle a diverse group of individuals.

 

And again, either way you want to look at it, Lou's style isn't working. The team isn't responding. It's on the manager to find a way to motivate and put the team in the best position to succeed. If acting like an overreactionary freakout like he has been isn't working, he should try something else.

 

Murton was called out for defensive lapses.

 

How many times in your job do you have the media asking you questions about the people working under you?

 

I think this is all a bunch of garbage. Quit acting like a bunch of babies and crying about being "picked on by your manager". This is the major leagues and you are getting a bunch of money to perform so go out and shut up and get a job down.

 

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

[USSoccer]

 

Lou has put those bullpen guys in spots where they are poised to fail though. He hasn't done them any favors.

 

So it is all Lou's fault that they have sucked? Your a reliever, when you get put in a game your job is to get people out regardless of the situation. Quit putting the blame on Lou for their ineffectiveness.

 

Maybe the first couple times, but after it was apparent that Eyre and Howry couldn't be counted on in close/late situations, he ran them out there anyway, over and over. That's on him. He's the one putting the ineffective players in critical spots.

 

So which relievers do you go with? You only have so many. It is also not Lou's decision to ship those guys out, so you have to use them at some point. Its not like there are many clearly better options, maybe 1 or 2.

 

One idea would be to go with your effective relievers in tight situations. It's Lou's choice to go with guys who have shown that they suck at this point. Every time he goes with Eyre, or with Ohman instead of Wuertz or Howry or Guzman against a RH, it's on him. He's the one putting a LOOGY against a RH hitter, or using Eyre in a hold situation.

[MustangMike]

He was on ESPN 1000 this morning on Mike and Mike and said he thinks that Lou has already lost his team because he called them out publicly and what not. What do you guys think? I personally do not think he has, I just think our roster has guys on there that are prone to making mental mistakes.

 

I don't get it. They played bad under the coddler that was dusty, then play bad under Lou who lights them up when they consistnatly make mental mistakes. What's the constant here? Time for the players to start earning their keep.

[cubfan1955]

Seriously, these guys are major leaague professionals. If they've quit on Lou 50 some games into the season that says a lot about them.

[Banedon]

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Dusty needed to go because he put the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

Lou needs to go because he puts the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the players should not be held accountable.

[USSoccer]

 

How many times in your job do you have the media asking you questions about the people working under you?

 

I think this is all a bunch of garbage. Quit acting like a bunch of babies and crying about being "picked on by your manager". This is the major leagues and you are getting a bunch of money to perform so go out and shut up and get a job down.

 

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Managing people is managing people. It doesn't matter if the media is involved or not, but the media being a factor is another reason not to sell out your players publicly.

 

People can talk about players being "babies" and "crying", etc, but the fact of the matter is that people generally won't respond well to a boss who passes the buck and tosses individuals under the bus whilst washing his hands of any culpability in the group failure. This is what Piniella has done.

 

And as far as Dusty goes, it's not a black and white thing. You don't have to be one extreme or another. Believe it or not, there are better ways to get through to a group of people than one or the other.

 

And again, people keep missing the point-it doesn't matter what style it is that he's using, it matters that it's not working. It's on him to find a way of managing that will work. The longer he keeps being obstinate, the more he's going to alienate his clubhouse.

[cubfan1955]

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Dusty needed to go because he put the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

Lou needs to go because he puts the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the players should not be held accountable.

WOW Lou...the honeymoon is over. They're calling for your head already in less than 60 games. Welcome to Chicago.

[CUBZ99]

Kaplan on WGN radio said more or less the same thing as Olney. Basically, that the players feel that Lou doesn't have their backs. Boo hoo.

Baker never called out these guys and that didn't make a lick of difference. Now we have Lou calling out these guys and that doesn't seem to make a difference either. I think the roster has a lot of knuckleheads. The sooner we get rid of the extra weight, the better off we are going to be. If Z has any value left, trade him, I don't see him turning it around any time soon either.

 

For many players on the team, they are used to Dusty's laid back approach to managing. I can also see alot of the veterans getting very upset about losing playing time to younger players. List of possibly unhappy players:

 

Izturis -- expected to start and is losing a lot of playing time to Theriot.

Floyd -- Supposedly he thought he would be an everyday OF

Murton -- Hasn't gotten much playing time this year.

Jones -- See Floyd and Murton

DeRosa -- Was told he had a starting job and has actually had to earn it.

Bullpen -- Lou has given younger players (Guzman, Marmol) the chance to get innings at the expense of some of the veterans.

 

So there could be quite a few players that don't like Lou. For the most part, who cares. It is finally refreshing to see a manager that isn't afraid to bench a one-time gold glove SS because of performance, and not worry about the money they are paying him. I would rather the manager be concerned about winning than making everyone in the clubhouse happy.

[USSoccer]

He was on ESPN 1000 this morning on Mike and Mike and said he thinks that Lou has already lost his team because he called them out publicly and what not. What do you guys think? I personally do not think he has, I just think our roster has guys on there that are prone to making mental mistakes.

 

I don't get it. They played bad under the coddler that was dusty, then play bad under Lou who lights them up when they consistnatly make mental mistakes. What's the constant here? Time for the players to start earning their keep.

 

 

Or, perhaps "set-in-their-ways" managers need to find a different way to get through to their team.

[USSoccer]

Seriously, these guys are major leaague professionals. If they've quit on Lou 50 some games into the season that says a lot about them.

 

Lou is a major league professional manager; he shouldn't be needlessly tossing players under the bus under the guise of "accountability" and simultaniously absolving himself of accountability.

[MustangMike]

 

How many times in your job do you have the media asking you questions about the people working under you?

 

I think this is all a bunch of garbage. Quit acting like a bunch of babies and crying about being "picked on by your manager". This is the major leagues and you are getting a bunch of money to perform so go out and shut up and get a job down.

 

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Managing people is managing people. It doesn't matter if the media is involved or not, but the media being a factor is another reason not to sell out your players publicly.

 

People can talk about players being "babies" and "crying", etc, but the fact of the matter is that people generally won't respond well to a boss who passes the buck and tosses individuals under the bus whilst washing his hands of any culpability in the group failure. This is what Piniella has done.

 

And as far as Dusty goes, it's not a black and white thing. You don't have to be one extreme or another. Believe it or not, there are better ways to get through to a group of people than one or the other.

 

And again, people keep missing the point-it doesn't matter what style it is that he's using, it matters that it's not working. It's on him to find a way of managing that will work. The longer he keeps being obstinate, the more he's going to alienate his clubhouse.

 

I don't think Lou has been "throwing them under the bus" all year. To me its been the last week or so where he's seemed publically frustrated. He's made many comments about players needing to play better, but why is that wrong to say? Calling out the bullpen earlier this year seemed to be pretty darn obvious. As for individual call-outs, I haven't seen that and that's probably not the best way to go about it.

I also think judging Lou's entire season on 50 games is wrong. Working or not, you have to give him a chance, and you have to get some consistant play from your players.

I guess I'm just missing my Lou or Dusty or whoever is to blame, why aren't the players shouldering this burden? I blamed Dusty last year, I really did, but I think I didn't put it on the players enough.

[CUBZ99]

Seriously, these guys are major leaague professionals. If they've quit on Lou 50 some games into the season that says a lot about them.

 

Lou is a major league professional manager; he shouldn't be needlessly tossing players under the bus under the guise of "accountability" and simultaniously absolving himself of accountability.

 

This needlessly "tossing players under the bus" is widely overblown. Its similar to the Cubs' players crying over Steve Stone's comments in the TV booth. There is a difference between telling the truth about what is going on, and throwing someone under the bus.

[cubfan1955]

Seriously, these guys are major leaague professionals. If they've quit on Lou 50 some games into the season that says a lot about them.

 

Lou is a major league professional manager; he shouldn't be needlessly tossing players under the bus under the guise of "accountability" and simultaniously absolving himself of accountability.

Well I'm sorry but I don't see Lou absolving himself of accountability. (Dusty was the master at that) Lou doesn't drop flyballs or make errant throws or get picked off the bases at an alarming rate. What I have heard him say is the WE will got those things fixed. And I also don't think Lou is seeking out the media to bash players. He's replying to questions posed by the media.

[ter]

My goodness....Have ballplayers become so soft they can't and shouldn't be criticized by their boss?

 

It is also hard for me to believe that there are fans that honestly believe Piniella has "thrown players under the bus" (a phrase used too frequently without justification).

 

He has criticized their performance with reason.

 

Last year, fans were all over Baker for being too soft on his players....Now we are seeing messages that say Piniella is too tough on his players.

 

If there are players that have given up on Lou because he is too critical, then as time permits get rid of them, replacing them with those that have some mental toughness.

 

Last week Lou said something to the affect, "Give me time to get this straightened out. Don't judge me by the first two months."

 

He has a three year contract....I say, give him time.

[Banedon]

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Dusty needed to go because he put the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

Lou needs to go because he puts the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the players should not be held accountable.

WOW Lou...the honeymoon is over. They're calling for your head already in less than 60 games. Welcome to Chicago.

 

Meh...he might as well finish the season. He's a lame duck manager with new ownership likely to want to bring in their own management anyway.

 

I was never a big fan of the Lou hire, and he certainly hasn't given me anything to change that. The honeymoon isn't over with me...there never was a honeymoon.

[rocket]

i don't care if the manager is laid back like dusty, or if the manager is fiery like lou. all i care about is if the manager is competent, and neither of these 2 clowns are.

[USSoccer]

 

I don't think Lou has been "throwing them under the bus" all year. To me its been the last week or so where he's seemed publically frustrated. He's made many comments about players needing to play better, but why is that wrong to say? Calling out the bullpen earlier this year seemed to be pretty darn obvious. As for individual call-outs, I haven't seen that and that's probably not the best way to go about it.

I also think judging Lou's entire season on 50 games is wrong. Working or not, you have to give him a chance, and you have to get some consistant play from your players.

I guess I'm just missing my Lou or Dusty or whoever is to blame, why aren't the players shouldering this burden? I blamed Dusty last year, I really did, but I think I didn't put it on the players enough.

 

No one is saying the players don't shoulder most of the blame. They do. Where Lou comes in is that it's on him to find a way to get the most out of individual players. If the team isn't responding to his ways, he needs to find a way to get them to respond.

[cubfan1955]

Just out of curisoity are those of you who are saying Lou's "style" is hurting the team the same people who said Dusty needed to go because there was no individual accountablity under him?????

 

Dusty needed to go because he put the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

Lou needs to go because he puts the wrong players in at the wrong times in the wrong positions to succeed.

 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the players should not be held accountable.

WOW Lou...the honeymoon is over. They're calling for your head already in less than 60 games. Welcome to Chicago.

 

Meh...he might as well finish the season. He's a lame duck manager with new ownership likely to want to bring in their own management anyway.

 

I was never a big fan of the Lou hire, and he certainly hasn't given me anything to change that. The honeymoon isn't over with me...there never was a honeymoon.

Agreed. I wasn't a big fan of the hire either. He's here though and talk of "he needs to go now" are premature.

[cubfan1955]

 

I don't think Lou has been "throwing them under the bus" all year. To me its been the last week or so where he's seemed publically frustrated. He's made many comments about players needing to play better, but why is that wrong to say? Calling out the bullpen earlier this year seemed to be pretty darn obvious. As for individual call-outs, I haven't seen that and that's probably not the best way to go about it.

I also think judging Lou's entire season on 50 games is wrong. Working or not, you have to give him a chance, and you have to get some consistant play from your players.

I guess I'm just missing my Lou or Dusty or whoever is to blame, why aren't the players shouldering this burden? I blamed Dusty last year, I really did, but I think I didn't put it on the players enough.

 

No one is saying the players don't shoulder most of the blame. They do. Where Lou comes in is that it's on him to find a way to get the most out of individual players. If the team isn't responding to his ways, he needs to find a way to get them to respond.

Do you really believe he is not trying to do that?

[Elrhino]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

[Banedon]

Agreed. I wasn't a big fan of the hire either. He's here though and talk of "he needs to go now" are premature.

 

I'll agree in that I don't think him going NOW does much, though I wouldn't cry if he did. Might as well wait till the offseason and let whatever new GM will almost inevitably be here hire a guy that fits in with what I pray is a new organizational philosophy.

[Banedon]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

 

That's a ridiculous exaggeration. There's nothing wrong with wanting better leadership on a team this bad.

[jjgman21]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

 

 

are you familiar with a team called the Yankees?

[Elrhino]

Never in my life have I see a franchise and it's fans attribute the manager with having so much power on the W and L record. You would think the manager has a 30-40 game effect on a season by listening to Cub fans.

 

 

are you familiar with a team called the Yankees?

 

 

You got me there. Yankee fans would run Bobby Cox out of town after 3 months. Cubs fans would at least give him 4 or 5.