this has been beat to death already

[anabiono]

but...if the cubs keep losing...very likely...do you think that soriano will finally be moved from leadoff?

 

anyone?

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm really not sure why that would happen. It's clear the Cubs promised him he could hit leadoff, and his career stats indicate he's better batting leadoff. They aren't losing because Soriano is batting leadoff...though his lack of power isn't helping. But it's not like that lack of power is going to vanish if he moves around. Edited June 3, 2007 by Sammy Sofa

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Soriano in the lead-off spot is way down the list of things that need to be changed on this team.

[anabiono]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

[cubfan1955]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

[Sammy Sofa]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

 

He's a better hitter hitting leadoff. Maybe it's a mental thing...

[cubfan1955]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

 

He's a better hitter hitting leadoff. Maybe it's a mental thing...

He's had a lot more opportunity batting leadoff. A hitter will hit no matter where they bat him. What is the worst that can happen to try it? The Cubs lose some games?

[tkenm356]

His numbers from the lead-off spot are pretty good throughout his career, whereas the 3rd and 5th spots are mediocre at best, and he was hitting in the 3 and 5 spots in the middle of a lineup that consisted of Teixeira, Young, and Blalock when they were all hitting like madmen and Soriano performed below average. So to say putting him around Ramirez or Lee for protection doesn't seem to matter.

 

Only way I would think they move Soriano out of lead-off is if Pie impresses them enough to bat lead-off, even though he probably shouldn't if he starts hitting well in the bottom half of the order.

[98navigator]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

 

I would hate to see him hitting 5th. In 8 full ML seasons, Soriano has rarely shown the ability to hit well with RISP. All of his best offensive numbers are produced at leadoff. While it can be argued that he will probably only "leadoff" once a game, it's still pretty clear that he hits the best from the top of the order (and has his best OBP). I don't know if it's a simple matter of "comfort" or being at ease mentally or if he just can't hit a curveball... either way, I could see Aramis being pitched around quite a bit.

[cubfan1955]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

 

I would hate to see him hitting 5th. In 8 full ML seasons, Soriano has rarely shown the ability to hit well with RISP. All of his best offensive numbers are produced at leadoff. While it can be argued that he will probably only "leadoff" once a game, it's still pretty clear that he hits the best from the top of the order (and has his best OBP). I don't know if it's a simple matter of "comfort" or being at ease mentally or if he just can't hit a curveball... either way, I could see Aramis being pitched around quite a bit.

I don't necessarily agree with this. You could pretty much say the same thing with any of our other hitters behind Aramis. Soriano is a bigger threat than anyone else that might hit behind Ramirez. I would agree with leaving Soriano at leadoff if we were winning. Unfortunately we're not.

[Schwarber Fan]

With the recall of Pie, I think we will see much less of Soriano leading off. And rightfully so.

[mspcanes1]

but...if the cubs keep losing...very likely...do you think that soriano will finally be moved from leadoff?

 

anyone?

 

soriano's love for the leadoff spot is about the most [expletive] thing ever. the only time leadoff matters is in the first inning. after that you are trying to set up your 2-5 hitters with a baserunner who is versatile. ryan theriot should be batting there everyday. with soriano being a bit gimpy, theriot is just as likely, if not more so, to swipe a bag here and there than the fonz. that and theriot actually takes pitches.

[Warpticon]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

[98navigator]

has he ever batted 5th?

 

i don't know...making him bat somewhere else in the lineup right now would be a big step...then they could focus on getting a good leadoff hitter in here

 

just my 2 cents

I'd love to see him hitting 5th. I don't understand everyone insisting he should be batting leadoff. The team is not winning with him batting leadoff and I seriously doubt they would be any worse if he moved to 5th. Theriot batting leadoff with Murton 2nd followed by Lee, Aram, and Soriano. It has possibilities. Do something, anything. The status quo is not working.

 

I would hate to see him hitting 5th. In 8 full ML seasons, Soriano has rarely shown the ability to hit well with RISP. All of his best offensive numbers are produced at leadoff. While it can be argued that he will probably only "leadoff" once a game, it's still pretty clear that he hits the best from the top of the order (and has his best OBP). I don't know if it's a simple matter of "comfort" or being at ease mentally or if he just can't hit a curveball... either way, I could see Aramis being pitched around quite a bit.

I don't necessarily agree with this. You could pretty much say the same thing with any of our other hitters behind Aramis. Soriano is a bigger threat than anyone else that might hit behind Ramirez. I would agree with leaving Soriano at leadoff if we were winning. Unfortunately we're not.

 

I think that it's happened in the past but Ram is an aggressive swinger; he doesn't walk that much. For the most part, Lou has been batting contact hitters behind Aramis. IMO, if Soriano were to hit fifth, pitchers would chose to IBB (or give the intentional-unintentional walk with balls so off the plate that Aramis wouldn't swing) because Soriano is easier to tackle (especially in terms of the strikeout).

[98navigator]

With the recall of Pie, I think we will see much less of Soriano leading off. And rightfully so.

 

Pie will be hitting 2 today. Soriano is our leadoff hitter.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Transmogrified Tiger

[Exile on Waveland]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

Me too. That's the most important move regarding Soriano that needs to happen. Soriano has a .350 OBP as a leadoff hitter this year, which is not problematic. It might not be ideal, but it's not terrible. However, he should clearly be playing right with Murton/Floyd in left.

[Yestheydo]

That horse is dead, decomposed, and been reincarnated as a bug, which has already been squashed a number of times.

 

Soriano/ Pie is the Dominican Daily Double; bank on it.

[cubfan1955]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

No one (at least not me) is saying Soriano's spot in the order is a problem. It's just that we have another player (Theriot) that most likely can get on base as much as Soriano. It's a waste of resources to have a guy with his power potential batting leadoff.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

No one (at least not me) is saying Soriano's spot in the order is a problem. It's just that we have another player (Theriot) that most likely can get on base as much as Soriano. It's a waste of resources to have a guy with his power potential batting leadoff.

 

He doesn't hit as well when not hitting leadoff.

[mspcanes1]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

No one (at least not me) is saying Soriano's spot in the order is a problem. It's just that we have another player (Theriot) that most likely can get on base as much as Soriano. It's a waste of resources to have a guy with his power potential batting leadoff.

 

He doesn't hit as well when not hitting leadoff.

 

that's just [expletive]. the only time he's guaranteed to leadoff an inning is in the 1st. makes absolutely no sense to me why he couldn't produce from another spot unless it's just his selfishness getting in the way of him playing well because he's pouting about not being the "leadoff guy"

[cubfan1955]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

No one (at least not me) is saying Soriano's spot in the order is a problem. It's just that we have another player (Theriot) that most likely can get on base as much as Soriano. It's a waste of resources to have a guy with his power potential batting leadoff.

 

He doesn't hit as well when not hitting leadoff.

Bunk...a hitter will hit.

[CubColtPacer]

I'd rather see Soriano moved to right than anywhere in the lineup.

 

You win.

 

Soriano's spot in the order is not the problem, or even a problem at all. And moving him in the order to put Pie of all people in the leadoff spot would be an awful decision.

No one (at least not me) is saying Soriano's spot in the order is a problem. It's just that we have another player (Theriot) that most likely can get on base as much as Soriano. It's a waste of resources to have a guy with his power potential batting leadoff.

 

He doesn't hit as well when not hitting leadoff.

 

that's just [expletive]. the only time he's guaranteed to leadoff an inning is in the 1st. makes absolutely no sense to me why he couldn't produce from another spot unless it's just his selfishness getting in the way of him playing well because he's pouting about not being the "leadoff guy"

 

That's still quite a bit of difference even with only one guaranteed at-bat. Also, the most likely hitter to bat first in an inning later in the game is the number 1 hitter, because the pitcher is the most likely person to make an out (and therefore the most likely person to make a 3rd out of an inning).

 

2003: 64% of Soriano's at-bats were with no one on base

2004-58.8%

2005-54.8%

2006-67.2%

2007-68.3%

 

The two years he wasn't in the leadoff spot he saw a pretty big dropoff in those runners on base. When he went to the NL and leading off, those numbers went back up and even further.

 

Here are his career numbers with the bases empty versus having runners on:

 

bases empty-.288/.330/.529

runners on-.268/.321/.474

RISP-.254/.320/.444

 

Soriano hits better out of the leadoff spot, and better when there is nobody on base. The best way to maximize his production is to keep him there at leadoff.

[Yestheydo]

Bunk...a hitter will hit.

You go right ahead and ignore the reality that his OPS is like 50 points higher in the leadoff spot than anywhere else. I'm glad Lou doesn't.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bunk...a hitter will hit.

 

In Soriano's case, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary. 3 different teams(4 if you include the Cubs) at all stages of his career, he's significantly better when he's hitting leadoff.