More Murton?

[Careless]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

Wow! I wish you'd been around when we needed people to say how Neifi was great and needed to stay on this team. You'd have helped Hendry lead us to the playoffs last season. Your post has explained to me why we should keep playing worse than average players over a better than average and almost free player.

[CUBZ99]

Just like displayable evidence that lack of regular playing time has an effect on a player's performance?

 

 

Jeremy Giambi effect. Google it.

 

If you want to make excuses for Murton, based on playing time then you have to consider that same variable for all of the OF'ers on the current roster. Wow, just imagine how good Floyd would be if he played everyday. Or, think about Jacque Jones repeating his season last year, if only they let him start in RF every game again.

 

 

I laid out some displayable facts as to why Murton shouldn't be starting for the Cubs.

 

1. Makes too many mental mistakes

2. Terrible defender

3. No Power

 

You do realize that these are not 'facts', right? These are perceptions, abstracts that you have created in your mind that really have little evidence to support them beyond your insistence that they do, in fact, exist. Next you're going to tell me that he doesn't have 'intangibles', or he isn't 'clutch'.

 

Now your concerned about what are facts? I thought you were arguing the "Jeremy Giambi" effect.

 

What part of his .697 OPS, does not show that he has no power?

 

If you don't think Matt Murton has made too many mental mistakes or that he been a terrible defender this year, you are either:

 

1. His brother/sister (or other relative); or

2. Haven't watched a game on TV this year (which is understandable with the way they are playing); or

3. Just started watching baseball this year and don't understand what is the widely accepted useage of the term "mental mistakes".

 

No one is saying that Matt Murton is an MVP or a season saver. All we're saying is that he's a pretty decent ballplayer that when given regular playing time should perform as well as anybody else, and probably better, when doing so in left field.

 

For someone hung up on definitions, your definition nof "pretty decent" is extremely broad. A .697 OPS from a RF/LF is not "pretty decent." Murton ranks 58th this year in NL OF OPS. Murton is not even adequate with that OPS.

[mul21]

You're separating the argument into 2 different parts and that isn't what anybody is saying. The argument is that Murton would be an above average player if given regular playing time. Not every player has the same makeup, some guys need to play every day, others can get 5 ABs a week and be very good at doing that. The belief here is that Murton will excel if given a regular job in the everyday lineup, hence the Jeremy Giambi effect. If you want to come up with something in the other direction, call it the Lenny Harris effect. Bottom line is that some players, especially young guys who don't have a lot of ML experience, need regular PT to get in a rhythm and play to their ability.

[anabiono]

You're separating the argument into 2 different parts and that isn't what anybody is saying. The argument is that Murton would be an above average player if given regular playing time. Not every player has the same makeup, some guys need to play every day, others can get 5 ABs a week and be very good at doing that. The belief here is that Murton will excel if given a regular job in the everyday lineup, hence the Jeremy Giambi effect. If you want to come up with something in the other direction, call it the Lenny Harris effect. Bottom line is that some players, especially young guys who don't have a lot of ML experience, need regular PT to get in a rhythm and play to their ability.

 

this is correct

[cubfan1955]

You're separating the argument into 2 different parts and that isn't what anybody is saying. The argument is that Murton would be an above average player if given regular playing time. Not every player has the same makeup, some guys need to play every day, others can get 5 ABs a week and be very good at doing that. The belief here is that Murton will excel if given a regular job in the everyday lineup, hence the Jeremy Giambi effect. If you want to come up with something in the other direction, call it the Lenny Harris effect. Bottom line is that some players, especially young guys who don't have a lot of ML experience, need regular PT to get in a rhythm and play to their ability.

I don't think anyone can say with any amount of certaintity that Murton will be above average if he plays everyday. I think his OBP could be above average and he should be batting 2nd but his (lack of) power is going to mean he's below average for a corner OF batting anywhere other than 2nd.

 

On a side note...I don't like his wide open stance where he has no stride into the ball when he swings. I wonder if this could be affecting his power. I know Bagwell hit this way but Murton is no Jeff Bagwell.

[Warpticon]

Just like displayable evidence that lack of regular playing time has an effect on a player's performance?

 

 

Jeremy Giambi effect. Google it.

 

If you want to make excuses for Murton, based on playing time then you have to consider that same variable for all of the OF'ers on the current roster. Wow, just imagine how good Floyd would be if he played everyday. Or, think about Jacque Jones repeating his season last year, if only they let him start in RF every game again.

 

 

I laid out some displayable facts as to why Murton shouldn't be starting for the Cubs.

 

1. Makes too many mental mistakes

2. Terrible defender

3. No Power

 

You do realize that these are not 'facts', right? These are perceptions, abstracts that you have created in your mind that really have little evidence to support them beyond your insistence that they do, in fact, exist. Next you're going to tell me that he doesn't have 'intangibles', or he isn't 'clutch'.

 

Now your concerned about what are facts? I thought you were arguing the "Jeremy Giambi" effect.

 

What part of his .697 OPS, does not show that he has no power?

 

If you don't think Matt Murton has made too many mental mistakes or that he been a terrible defender this year, you are either:

 

1. His brother/sister (or other relative); or

2. Haven't watched a game on TV this year (which is understandable with the way they are playing); or

3. Just started watching baseball this year and don't understand what is the widely accepted useage of the term "mental mistakes".

 

No one is saying that Matt Murton is an MVP or a season saver. All we're saying is that he's a pretty decent ballplayer that when given regular playing time should perform as well as anybody else, and probably better, when doing so in left field.

 

For someone hung up on definitions, your definition nof "pretty decent" is extremely broad. A .697 OPS from a RF/LF is not "pretty decent." Murton ranks 58th this year in NL OF OPS. Murton is not even adequate with that OPS.

 

If you weren't so tied up in making cute analogies, you might have some understanding of what you're talking about, and how wrong you are. Murton has 109 at-bats this season. He has 595 prior to this year, in which he hit at a much better pace. What's pretty "broad" is your assessment of Murton as an overall player based only on those 109 at-bats. Moreover...you know, I just reread ahead.

 

Now your concerned about what are facts? I thought you were arguing the "Jeremy Giambi" effect.

 

I give up. Your method of argumentation is so childish it's really not worth bothering with.

[NewUserName]

I have been a big supporter of Murton. I just want to ask those who want him benched, who is a better option for the future of this team?

 

There will be no money to add a quality FA.

If Floyd and Jones are the future we are in deep crap. The Cubs are not going to make the World Series this year.

Pie is the only viable option we have in the system for a couple of years.

Soriano is the only other OF with a longterm future.

If Pagan is the answer to my question then the Cubs future is not bright.

Worse of all its not like any other Cub outfielder is running circles around Murton. Soriano has been ok offensively and terrible defensively and on the bases. Pagan has proven in the past that he can have a good week but then reality will set in, he wasnt even hitting in Iowa. Jones should never see the field against LHers and hasnt even hit RHers that good. Floyd can hit Rhers but not LHers and will be injured. Pie hasnt been that good yet. So why is Murton being singled out. Heck the only 2 players I have mentioned who make less than Murton are Pagan and Pie.

[Elrhino]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

Wow! I wish you'd been around when we needed people to say how Neifi was great and needed to stay on this team. You'd have helped Hendry lead us to the playoffs last season. Your post has explained to me why we should keep playing worse than average players over a better than average and almost free player.

 

Where in my post did I say anything about wanting Neifi to play, ever? Or are you just using baseless conjecture? If so, I guess it would be fair to assume that if you were running the team we would have never made the Aramis or Lee trades, because giving up Bobby Hill and Choi would be asking too much. We would currently be rockin a lineup with Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson in order to pay Brian Giles and JD Drew superstar contracts.

[NewUserName]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

Wow! I wish you'd been around when we needed people to say how Neifi was great and needed to stay on this team. You'd have helped Hendry lead us to the playoffs last season. Your post has explained to me why we should keep playing worse than average players over a better than average and almost free player.

 

Where in my post did I say anything about wanting Neifi to play, ever? Or are you just using baseless conjecture? If so, I guess it would be fair to assume that if you were running the team we would have never made the Aramis or Lee trades, because giving up Bobby Hill and Choi would be asking too much. We would currently be rockin a lineup with Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson in order to pay Brian Giles and JD Drew superstar contracts.

 

 

Not to sound like any of these guys are great but I would rather have Patterson than Jones. Bobby Hill would have done about as well at 2nd than everyone else the Cubs have had there the last few years. Dubois was a better option than anyone else the Cubs had at the time. Choi was never the same after his collision with Wood. Also I think most around here were ok with the Choi for Lee trade and the Hill for ARam trade.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

Wow! I wish you'd been around when we needed people to say how Neifi was great and needed to stay on this team. You'd have helped Hendry lead us to the playoffs last season. Your post has explained to me why we should keep playing worse than average players over a better than average and almost free player.

 

Where in my post did I say anything about wanting Neifi to play, ever? Or are you just using baseless conjecture? If so, I guess it would be fair to assume that if you were running the team we would have never made the Aramis or Lee trades, because giving up Bobby Hill and Choi would be asking too much. We would currently be rockin a lineup with Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson in order to pay Brian Giles and JD Drew superstar contracts.

 

Right on man, that lineup with Hollandsworth, Neifi, Karros, and Womack with Pierre signed to a superstar contract would've crushed that lineup.

[Illini Iceman]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

 

Well if this isnt the biggest load of crap Ive ever seen on this site I dont know what is

 

Your sig would be a good candidate.

[Elrhino]

I apologize for questioning the undeniable greatness of Matt Murton. I realize that just the mere hint of skepticism means I'm nothing more than a neanderthal who hasn't the most rudimentary understanding of baseball (and evidently neither does the guys who work at BA, since they've never listed him as anything but a Tier 2 prospect.). I now know that some 35 year old virigin in his mother's basement came up with a meaningless formula and posted it on BP with very little peer review and gave it a generic a "(obscure playe) effect" moniker, which obviously makes it a law of nature. Clearly, Murton would be hitting at 120 OPS+ if not for old farts like Lou Penella.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to return to drawing pictures on my cave wall with deer antlers as my writing utensil. What do I know? I'm one of those primitive, backward thinking minds that thought Derrick Lee for Hee Seop Choi was a steal for the Cubs.

Wow! I wish you'd been around when we needed people to say how Neifi was great and needed to stay on this team. You'd have helped Hendry lead us to the playoffs last season. Your post has explained to me why we should keep playing worse than average players over a better than average and almost free player.

 

Where in my post did I say anything about wanting Neifi to play, ever? Or are you just using baseless conjecture? If so, I guess it would be fair to assume that if you were running the team we would have never made the Aramis or Lee trades, because giving up Bobby Hill and Choi would be asking too much. We would currently be rockin a lineup with Jason Dubois, Bobby Hill, Hee Seop Choi and Corey Patterson in order to pay Brian Giles and JD Drew superstar contracts.

 

Right on man, that lineup with Hollandsworth, Neifi, Karros, and Womack with Pierre signed to a superstar contract would've crushed that lineup.

 

 

Sadly, they probably would have.