Soriano,so far...

[Monco]

I understand why they overpaid.I understand he will hit better. I understand how hes not a great fielding outfielder.But when I see a lack of hustle on the bases and in the field ... He seems to be geting the benefit of the doubt that others wouldn't.

[seanimal]

I understand why they overpaid.I understand he will hit better. I understand how hes not a great fielding outfielder.But when I see a lack of hustle on the bases and in the field ... He seems to be geting the benefit of the doubt that others wouldn't.

 

You can't be serious. The guy has a soft hamstring. This hustle thing is kind of silly. Soriano wants to win just as much as the next guy, but he's not going to pull up with a 15-day DL trip to do it, as he's more valuable on the field than off.

[jjgman21]

I understand why they overpaid.I understand he will hit better. I understand how hes not a great fielding outfielder.But when I see a lack of hustle on the bases and in the field ... He seems to be geting the benefit of the doubt that others wouldn't.

 

You can't be serious. The guy has a soft hamstring. This hustle thing is kind of silly. Soriano wants to win just as much as the next guy, but he's not going to pull up with a 15-day DL trip to do it, as he's more valuable on the field than off.

 

my guess is he's referring specifically to the final out yesterday where Soriano assumed he had a base hit and started jogging to first, then realized Uribe would get to the ball.

 

unexcusable. he didn't even have to go all out to keep the game going. all he had to do was run the 85-90% or whatever percentage I've seen him give in other situations. he didn't. that's not too much to ask, and completely unacceptable when it doesn't happen. if anything, he endangered himself more by not giving all he had from the beginning and instead had to turn it on to try to beat it out.

[seanimal]

I understand why they overpaid.I understand he will hit better. I understand how hes not a great fielding outfielder.But when I see a lack of hustle on the bases and in the field ... He seems to be geting the benefit of the doubt that others wouldn't.

 

You can't be serious. The guy has a soft hamstring. This hustle thing is kind of silly. Soriano wants to win just as much as the next guy, but he's not going to pull up with a 15-day DL trip to do it, as he's more valuable on the field than off.

 

my guess is he's referring specifically to the final out yesterday where Soriano assumed he had a base hit and started jogging to first, then realized Uribe would get to the ball.

 

unexcusable. he didn't even have to go all out to keep the game going. all he had to do was run the 85-90% or whatever percentage I've seen him give in other situations. he didn't. that's not too much to ask, and completely unacceptable when it doesn't happen. if anything, he endangered himself more by not giving all he had from the beginning and instead had to turn it on to try to beat it out.

 

In that context it's somewhat more understandable, however, a lot is made on this board about judging a guy by his most recent performance. I would assume Lou let him hear it, based on things that past players have said about him. Either way, if Sori was putting up his usual numbers, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

[Monco]

I understand why they overpaid.I understand he will hit better. I understand how hes not a great fielding outfielder.But when I see a lack of hustle on the bases and in the field ... He seems to be geting the benefit of the doubt that others wouldn't.

 

You can't be serious. The guy has a soft hamstring. This hustle thing is kind of silly. Soriano wants to win just as much as the next guy, but he's not going to pull up with a 15-day DL trip to do it, as he's more valuable on the field than off.

Aram has had hamstring problems in the past.How many people bashed him for not hustling down the line? How many said when Piniella got hired he'd address it? Soriano not taking the extra base because he doesn't want to push it. When this affects the outcome of the game,its a problem. If he needed the extra week or two ,he should've taken it. Hamstring injuries tend to linger.How long until he decides to go all out.There are other options.

[seanimal]

Aram has had hamstring problems in the past.How many people bashed him for not hustling down the line?

 

Lots, but I wasn't one of them. Seeing players run as hard as possible every single time is exciting and all, but the important numbers he puts up are far more exciting than seeing him 'grind' his way down the basepaths and aggravate his former injuries.

 

How many said when Piniella got hired he'd address it?

 

Well I only speak for myself, and I just said that. It happened yesterday, so unless you have evidence of Piniella not addressing it, it's a bit presumptuous to say that he doesn't, especially when past experience says that he does and will.

 

Soriano not taking the extra base because he doesn't want to push it. When this affects the outcome of the game,its a problem.

 

You're right, the Cubs lost because Alfonso Soriano didn't run as hard as possible.

 

If he needed the extra week or two ,he should've taken it. Hamstring injuries tend to linger.

 

You do realize these two sentences contradict themselves. The second is accurate, they do linger, and Soriano running at 85% is a lot better than Soriano on the bench.

 

How long until he decides to go all out.

 

It's not a decision, it's a feeling. He probably runs as hard as he feels comfortable with.

 

There are other options.

 

Like?

[Sammy Sofa]

Soriano not taking the extra base because he doesn't want to push it. When this affects the outcome of the game,its a problem.

 

So far your argument boils down to this one instance where unfortunately he didn't make it to base. By that logic, that is cancelled out by his single the previous day where he tied or won (I can't remember which) the game.

[jjgman21]

You're right, the Cubs lost because Alfonso Soriano didn't run as hard as possible.

 

 

well let's look at that. all other things being equal, if he doesn't give up on the ball in the second, the White Sox probably don't score. that puts the game at 8-6. he doesn't assume the ball gets through in the ninth, the score is 8-6 with two on and the Cubs hottest hitter at the plate.

 

not THE reason the Cubs lost, but it definitely decreased the likelihood they would win the game.

 

 

 

as for other options, Murton and Floyd. what's so hard to figure out about that one? it's not like Soriano's current stats are irreplaceable.

[jjgman21]

Soriano not taking the extra base because he doesn't want to push it. When this affects the outcome of the game,its a problem.

 

So far your argument boils down to this one instance where unfortunately he didn't make it to base. By that logic, that is cancelled out by his single the previous day where he tied or won (I can't remember which) the game.

 

I'm all for not pushing it for an extra base when nursing an injury. why risk injury on a 'not for sure' play. but implying that Soriano always runs as hard as he is capable of while not pushing the chance of injury is disengenuous. your going after Monco completely ignores the example I gave above.

[Monco]

Aram has had hamstring problems in the past.How many people bashed him for not hustling down the line?

 

Lots, but I wasn't one of them. Seeing players run as hard as possible every single time is exciting and all, but the important numbers he puts up are far more exciting than seeing him 'grind' his way down the basepaths and aggravate his former injuries.

 

How many said when Piniella got hired he'd address it?

 

Well I only speak for myself, and I just said that. It happened yesterday, so unless you have evidence of Piniella not addressing it, it's a bit presumptuous to say that he doesn't, especially when past experience says that he does and will.

 

Soriano not taking the extra base because he doesn't want to push it. When this affects the outcome of the game,its a problem.

 

You're right, the Cubs lost because Alfonso Soriano didn't run as hard as possible.

 

If he needed the extra week or two ,he should've taken it. Hamstring injuries tend to linger.

 

You do realize these two sentences contradict themselves. The second is accurate, they do linger, and Soriano running at 85% is a lot better than Soriano on the bench.

 

How long until he decides to go all out.

 

It's not a decision, it's a feeling. He probably runs as hard as he feels comfortable with.

 

There are other options.

 

Like?

The other options are playing the other outfielders. I somewhat remember 2 games after Soriano came back that his baserunning made a difference. One was not tagging at third.

 

The two sentences did contradict,but what was meant was that if a another week or two would of helped,it should have been taken. The decision was not all his.

[seanimal]

well let's look at that. all other things being equal, if he doesn't give up on the ball in the second, the White Sox probably don't score.

 

Perhaps, but wasn't that ball over the bullpen hump? At the time it seemed to me that that was the issue with him not going for the ball, rather than just 'giving' up. Either way, we'll never know. I'd say Zambrano throwing hamburgers has a helluva lot more to do with the Cubs losing that game than anything Sori did.

 

as for other options, Murton and Floyd. what's so hard to figure out about that one? it's not like Soriano's current stats are irreplaceable.

 

I think it would be more appropriate to revisit this issue at the end of the season when trying to assert that Soriano's stats are replaceable in-house. Currently, you may be right about the offensive end, but I can guarantee that Matt Murton wouldn't have 5 assists in the opportunities that Soriano has received.

[Monco]

You're right, the Cubs lost because Alfonso Soriano didn't run as hard as possible.

 

 

well let's look at that. all other things being equal, if he doesn't give up on the ball in the second, the White Sox probably don't score. that puts the game at 8-6. he doesn't assume the ball gets through in the ninth, the score is 8-6 with two on and the Cubs hottest hitter at the plate.

 

not THE reason the Cubs lost, but it definitely decreased the likelihood they would win the game.

 

 

 

as for other options, Murton and Floyd. what's so hard to figure out about that one? it's not like Soriano's current stats are irreplaceable.

 

Soriano running was in reference to previous baserunning,not the foul ball in the Sox game.The foul ball was more laziness or a lack of effort.I doubt the hamstring came into play.

[YearofDaCubs]

So are his high amount of pickoffs laziness, or lack of attention?

[seanimal]

So are his high amount of pickoffs laziness, or lack of attention?

 

Good question that I have no answer to, but if I had to guess, I would say some combination of the latter and over-aggressiveness.

[frostwyrm]

.806 OPS is terrible for his salary and position. Only 4 homers, 3 of them against Pirates. He's not getting on base much either. We could have gotten similar or better results if Lou had just stuck Murton in LF every day, and it wouldn't cost $136M.

[seanimal]

.806 OPS is terrible for his salary and position. Only 4 homers, 3 of them against Pirates. He's not getting on base much either. We could have gotten similar or better results if Lou had just stuck Murton in LF every day, and it wouldn't cost $136M.

 

You're right for now, but I'll defer my opinion until the end of the season.

[jersey cubs fan]

.806 OPS is terrible for his salary and position. Only 4 homers, 3 of them against Pirates. He's not getting on base much either. We could have gotten similar or better results if Lou had just stuck Murton in LF every day, and it wouldn't cost $136M.

 

You're right for now, but I'll defer my opinion until the end of the season.

 

Why not wait until 2014?

 

Soriano is already past his prime and he doesn't have a great history of production to give anybody confidence that he will turn things around. There's really no time to be patient with the guy Hendry decided would be his savior. He's been a huge disappointment, but the Cubs are giving him all the leeway in the world, because of the money. He's done many things that have gotten others benched.

[USSoccer]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I've been impressed with his arm. The rest of him? Not so much.

[Backtobanks]

.806 OPS is terrible for his salary and position. Only 4 homers, 3 of them against Pirates. He's not getting on base much either. We could have gotten similar or better results if Lou had just stuck Murton in LF every day, and it wouldn't cost $136M.

 

You're right for now, but I'll defer my opinion until the end of the season.

 

Why not wait until 2014?

 

Soriano is already past his prime and he doesn't have a great history of production to give anybody confidence that he will turn things around. There's really no time to be patient with the guy Hendry decided would be his savior. He's been a huge disappointment, but the Cubs are giving him all the leeway in the world, because of the money. He's done many things that have gotten others benched.

 

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

[Have a seat, Neifi]

Good player. Bad signing. Terrible contract.

[C.C.]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

[USSoccer]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

[jersey cubs fan]

Soriano, like many of the best hitters, is a streak hitter. When he gets hot, watch out. When he's cold, you wait for the next hot streak. There are very few top hitters that aren't streaky.

 

There are very few "top hitters" as unproductive as Soriano. Most top hitters maintain solid numbers and get their great numbers out of streaks. The problem with Soriano is he's not a top hitter. He needs his hot streaks just to keep his numbers out of the trash bin.

[C.C.]

I'm not impressed with Soriano so far. At all. I'm not going to get on him for not going all out when he's got a sore hammy, but for $136 million I'd expect better than I'm getting. 4 HR's and like 8 RBI is terrible. His defense has been poor. His patience isn't very good (although everyone saw that coming).

 

The best thing you can say is that he's been willing to change positions and spots in the batting order, but he should be willing to do that anyway.

 

 

That's the part that makes me chuckle. 8 freaking RBI's? That's terrible! His defense hasn't been all that bad. How many assist's does he have 5-6 already?

 

His arm has been fine. His glove and his routes are terrible. I'm willing to bet that his defensive play has negated the OF assists as far as runs scored go.

 

And 8 RBI on May 22 is pretty lousy.

 

True. His routes are terrible. I still can't get over the 8 RBI's...Unreal! Who would've thought that Sammy Sosa would be more productive at this point in the season. Oh man...