I get the feeling Lou doesn't like Ohman

[Buford T Justice]

I'm re watching the game from last night, I laughed when he took the ball away from him..Not pat on the butt just a look like get the hell outta here.

[RichHillIsABeast]

Well, maybe he should start using him like the LOOGY he is.

 

It's like Remlinger in reverse.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

Dear Lou,

 

Will Ohman cannot get people out if they bat right-handed. Thank you, that is all.

 

Sincerely,

Everyone with eyes

[DurbanJer]

Dear Lou,

 

Will Ohman cannot get people out if they bat right-handed. Thank you, that is all.

 

Sincerely,

Everyone with eyes

 

and even some without

[FergieJ31]

"Then I bring in a reliever that's throwing 30-40 foot curve balls ... WHAT THE HELL YOU THINK ISN"T WORKING?!?! YOU SEE THE DAMN GAME :evil: "

[Sammy Sofa]

I get pissed when Ohman screws up, but I have no sympathy for a manager who doesn't understand how to use his bullpen. Ohman is a very good LOOGY. Use him as that and only that. Anything else and you're asking for trouble.

[RynoRules]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

[Sammy Sofa]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

 

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

[sunnydoo]

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

Loogys are a crock, especially on a 11 man staff.

 

Good for Lou, ship Wills buttocks out somewhere.

[RynoRules]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

 

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

I don't buy the situational pitcher notion - it causes teams to carry too many pitchers. I'd rather have guys who can - heaven forbid - get guys out from both sides of the plate. I don't think Lou buys it either, and I loved seeing Dempster get a 5 out save last night.

[Balsa]

I heard rumors the Tigers were interested in Ohman...

[killthegoat06]

I heard rumors the Tigers were interested in Ohman...

 

For real? Did you hear any possible deals?

[Sammy Sofa]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

 

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

I don't buy the situational pitcher notion - it causes teams to carry too many pitchers. I'd rather have guys who can - heaven forbid - get guys out from both sides of the plate. I don't think Lou buys it either, and I loved seeing Dempster get a 5 out save last night.

 

But that's different than saying he just totally sucks. I agree, I don't really like the idea of "specialists," but Ohman's performances over the last couple of seasons seem to indicate he is one. If Lou refuses to acknowledge that and keeps tossing him out against righties, well, that's just stupid.

[TruffleShuffle]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

 

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

I don't buy the situational pitcher notion - it causes teams to carry too many pitchers. I'd rather have guys who can - heaven forbid - get guys out from both sides of the plate.

 

Yeah, and we don't have that many of them. Eyre can't seem to get anyone out. Nobody else from the minors is likely to offer much help. At least the Cubs have a guy who can get solid LH batters out, which is an important skill in the major leagues, provided you have a manager who knows what he's doing.

 

 

Ohman's three-year splits:

vs LHP: 165/274/286/559

vs RHP: 239/349/369/718

 

 

This year Ohman has not really pitched a whole lot, and his biggest problem has been control and allowing XBH's to RH batters. He's really not a bad pitcher. Ohman CAN get righthanded hitters out, but he's no better than average at doing so. On the other hand, he's quite good at getting out lefthanded batters. So he should be facing mostly lefties, but this year 60% of the ABs against him have been by RH batters. That goes on the manager, not the pitcher.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Ohman stinks and he doesn't get people out.

 

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

I don't buy the situational pitcher notion - it causes teams to carry too many pitchers. I'd rather have guys who can - heaven forbid - get guys out from both sides of the plate.

 

Yeah, and we don't have that many of them. Eyre can't seem to get anyone out. Nobody else from the minors is likely to offer much help. At least the Cubs have a guy who can get solid LH batters out, which is an important skill in the major leagues, provided you have a manager who knows what he's doing.

 

 

Ohman's three-year splits:

vs LHP: 165/274/286/559

vs RHP: 239/349/369/718

 

 

This year Ohman has not really pitched a whole lot, and his biggest problem has been control and allowing XBH's to RH batters. He's really not a bad pitcher. Ohman CAN get righthanded hitters out, but he's no better than average at doing so. On the other hand, he's quite good at getting out lefthanded batters. So he should be facing mostly lefties, but this year 60% of the ABs against him have been by RH batters. That goes on the manager, not the pitcher.

 

Agreed. Ohman is tough on lefties, has been since he hit the big leagues. His problem this year has been his control, not sure what's up with that, but it's still April. I'd rather the Cubs explore moving Eyre before Ohman, Eyre is the one making nearly $4MM and is not really needed in a bullpen with Wuertz, Howry and Dempster.

 

Of course, in his infinite wisdom, Hendry gave Eyre a NTC which kind of throws a monkey-wrench into that plan. :-(

[Red Alert]

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

That may be true, but last time that I checked, there were 3 LH RP in the Cubs BP. If the SP goes out early, that creates a problem. You can't use a guy like Ohman to pitch to just one LH batter each game. That is a waste of a roster spot.

[TruffleShuffle]

Of course, in his infinite wisdom, Hendry gave Eyre a NTC which kind of throws a monkey-wrench into that plan. :-(

 

NTC or not, I can't imagine that anyone wants Eyre, considering that he sucks and has an albatross of a contract.

[bobbyd20]

Of course, in his infinite wisdom, Hendry gave Eyre a NTC which kind of throws a monkey-wrench into that plan. :-(

 

NTC or not, I can't imagine that anyone wants Eyre, considering that he sucks and has an albatross of a contract.

 

 

Just one of many albatross contract's on this roster. Was it Eyre that I heard on ESPN1000 say that his agent didn't even offer a counter offer to Hendry's contract proposal? Way to know the market Jimbo.

[imb]

Of course, in his infinite wisdom, Hendry gave Eyre a NTC which kind of throws a monkey-wrench into that plan. :-(

 

NTC or not, I can't imagine that anyone wants Eyre, considering that he sucks and has an albatross of a contract.

 

 

Just one of many albatross contract's on this roster. Was it Eyre that I heard on ESPN1000 say that his agent didn't even offer a counter offer to Hendry's contract proposal? Way to know the market Jimbo.

 

I heard that it went down like this, Hendry called him and made his offer. Eyre's agent replied with "that's an interesting offer Jim, we'll certainly...wait, did you say million?"

 

Reports have it that the contract was signed, sealed and delivered before Hendry had finished his sentence.

[sunnydoo]

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

The Why is easy. On an 11 man staff you have 5 starters and 6 relievers. Last year the avg NL pen ate 504 IP or 84 innings per reliever. Grant it, the number is moved around a bit b/c of roster moves, trades, and Sept callups, but that is the pace they are on.

 

If you have a Loogy, they only will throw in the neighborhood of 40 to 45 innings per year. That means that the other 5 guys in the pen go over 90 IP on average. That number is important because most people consider 80 to 85 appearances or 90+ IP for a reliever as keys to major arm problems. There have been a number of studies done on pitchers showing poor performances the years following from tired arm syndrome b/c of abuse in IP as a reliever and in the number of appearences they make.

 

On 12 man staffs where you have 7 relievers, dividing that out is 72 IP per person. Subtracting the 40 to 45, you are on a pace for about 77 IP per pen person, which is more manageable. However, that 12th pitcher comes at a cost b/c you are giving up a position player that can help out if your team is positionally challenged, injury prone, or needs help in the late innings with specific PH duties.

 

The Cubs are pretty well set with versatility in positions. Likewise they have Z and Marquis who can PH in x inning games. The problem for the Cubs are the number of day to day injuries they manage to pile up, the most recent examples being DeRosa, ARam, and Soriano. If you have 1 or 2 people with nagging injuries + 8 you put on the field + the back up catcher, then you only have at most 1 player to pinch hit from either side- which makes the situation to be absolutely perfect for you to use him. If it doesnt work or isnt the right situation, then you have to deal with the consequences. Also double switching or defensive substitutions are very limited.

 

For some 11 is the way to go. For others its 12. I prefer 11 pitchers and 14 hitters. I also think that 3 lefties in our pen is way way overkill.

[TruffleShuffle]

Of course, in his infinite wisdom, Hendry gave Eyre a NTC which kind of throws a monkey-wrench into that plan. :-(

 

NTC or not, I can't imagine that anyone wants Eyre, considering that he sucks and has an albatross of a contract.

 

 

Just one of many albatross contract's on this roster. Was it Eyre that I heard on ESPN1000 say that his agent didn't even offer a counter offer to Hendry's contract proposal? Way to know the market Jimbo.

 

I heard that it went down like this, Hendry called him and made his offer. Eyre's agent replied with "that's an interesting offer Jim, we'll certainly...wait, did you say million?"

 

Reports have it that the contract was signed, sealed and delivered before Hendry had finished his sentence.

 

I believe that you also described negotiations with Jason Marquis, Henry Blanco, Neifi Perez and Jacque Jones.

[TruffleShuffle]

That's simply not the case if he's used correctly. I don't understand why people seem so unwilling to believe this.

 

The Why is easy. On an 11 man staff you have 5 starters and 6 relievers. Last year the avg NL pen ate 504 IP or 84 innings per reliever. Grant it, the number is moved around a bit b/c of roster moves, trades, and Sept callups, but that is the pace they are on.

 

If you have a Loogy, they only will throw in the neighborhood of 40 to 45 innings per year. That means that the other 5 guys in the pen go over 90 IP on average. That number is important because most people consider 80 to 85 appearances or 90+ IP for a reliever as keys to major arm problems. There have been a number of studies done on pitchers showing poor performances the years following from tired arm syndrome b/c of abuse in IP as a reliever and in the number of appearences they make.

 

On 12 man staffs where you have 7 relievers, dividing that out is 72 IP per person. Subtracting the 40 to 45, you are on a pace for about 77 IP per pen person, which is more manageable. However, that 12th pitcher comes at a cost b/c you are giving up a position player that can help out if your team is positionally challenged, injury prone, or needs help in the late innings with specific PH duties.

 

The Cubs are pretty well set with versatility in positions. Likewise they have Z and Marquis who can PH in x inning games. The problem for the Cubs are the number of day to day injuries they manage to pile up, the most recent examples being DeRosa, ARam, and Soriano. If you have 1 or 2 people with nagging injuries + 8 you put on the field + the back up catcher, then you only have at most 1 player to pinch hit from either side- which makes the situation to be absolutely perfect for you to use him. If it doesnt work or isnt the right situation, then you have to deal with the consequences. Also double switching or defensive substitutions are very limited.

 

For some 11 is the way to go. For others its 12. I prefer 11 pitchers and 14 hitters. I also think that 3 lefties in our pen is way way overkill.

 

I understand your point, but seriously, there are no other good options for the bullpen. Ohman pitching well against lefties and mediocre against righties, will still be better than anyone the Cubs could call up. Unless you're holding your breath for Kerry Wood to pitch this year.

[sunnydoo]

Ok, here is my other problem with Ohman split off from the bullpen thread.

 

Would one of the Ohman apologists riddle me this?

 

As a situational pitcher, he is brought in to face batters, usually with runners on in dire situations. Lifetime numbers for Ohman are terrible. He has 33 walks with RISP in 36 IP. That is god awful for a relief pitcher. 6 of those are IBB, but 27 is still ridiculous nonetheless. This year, its 4 walks in 3.2 IP with RISP.

 

LOOGYs need to get the people they face out, not walk them and add to the problems. If he is going to be put in the situation as a reliever with runners on base in scoring position, then he needs to do his job...and he isnt.

 

He is also terrible this year being brought in with the bases empty or at the start of an inning, which you label as misuse. His ERA is 5.63 in 8 IP in that type of situation.

 

Need to get rid of him and move on

[David]

Ok, here is my other problem with Ohman split off from the bullpen thread.

 

Would one of the Ohman apologists riddle me this?

 

As a situational pitcher, he is brought in to face batters, usually with runners on in dire situations. Lifetime numbers for Ohman are terrible. He has 33 walks with RISP in 36 IP. That is god awful for a relief pitcher. 6 of those are IBB, but 27 is still ridiculous nonetheless. This year, its 4 walks in 3.2 IP with RISP.

 

LOOGYs need to get the people they face out, not walk them and add to the problems. If he is going to be put in the situation as a reliever with runners on base in scoring position, then he needs to do his job...and he isnt.

 

He is also terrible this year being brought in with the bases empty or at the start of an inning, which you label as misuse. His ERA is 5.63 in 8 IP in that type of situation.

 

Need to get rid of him and move on

 

Those crazy situational stats are almost meaningless. The sample sizes are rarely significant.

 

How are his overall stats against lefties and in how many PA's?

[sunnydoo]

Those crazy situational stats are almost meaningless.

No. If you are going to have a situational pitcher, then you are going to have to perform in a situation, and he clearly is not. RISP is a typical situation where you would see a LOOGY come on to get a tough out.

 

6.75 BB per 9 is totally unacceptable after you take the IBBs out of it.

 

Or are you advocating that Lou should just use him with no one on at the beginning of an inning late in the game to face one batter then leave?

 

You can also take a look at 43 BB in 63.2 IP in 141 games with runners on, which is 6.12 BB per 9.

 

The sample sizes are rarely significant.

 

LOOGYs arent supposed to pitch a lot of innings so they really wouldnt have a large sample size to draw from. Typically they will throw between 30 and 50 innings per year because they will only face one or 2 hitters at an occasion.

 

36 IP in 110 games for his career is more than a large enough sample size.

 

How are his overall stats against lefties and in how many PA's?

4.50 per 9 bb this year and 3.86 for his career vs lefties.

3.0 per 9 bb this year and 5.79 for his career vs. righties.

3.75 per 9 bb walks this year and 4.87 for his career overall.

 

 

Looking at the Cub relief staff, Eyre, Cotts, Wuertz and Dempster all have walk ratios from 4.5 to 4.65 and we wonder why there is a continual bullpen problem. Only Howry's 3.11 is stellar.