Cubs Lineup

[ragirag]

I just wanted to post my thoughts on the Cubs lineup - and offer my opinion on who I think should bat where.....

 

The Cubs offense has been mind-boggling bad in the early goings this year. 12 k's against Kyle Lohse? Wow.... Soriano has been downright awful batting out of his supposed 'best spot in the lineup'. Sure the weather has been cold, and offense is down in general this year, but wow, did anyone think the Cubs offense would be this bad, two weeks into the season?

 

So, here is how I would like to see the lineup card filled out, once Aram comes back.

 

1. Theriot - To play 2nd. DeRosa hasn't looked particurally well. Theriot proved at the end of last season, he can hit, get on base, and runs the bases well. I don't believe he would be a butcher in the field either.

2. Matt Murton - Move him to Right. He doesn't have a great arm, but does the current RF have one. Um, nope...

3. Derek Lee

4. Aram

5. Soriano

6. Barrett

7. Cliff Floyd - Playing Left

8. Izturis - If he keeps playing the way he is, shift Cedeno in for him. His glove and bat hasn't been all that good thus far this season.

 

Thoughts?

[soapy]

Honestly, the order isn't as much a concern to me as is just getting the best 8 players out there. However, I would probably go like this for now:

 

Theriot SS

Murton/Floyd LF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Soriano CF

Jones RF

Barrett C

DeRosa 2B

[mordecaibrown]

My Lineup

 

1.The Riot 2b

2.Murton Lf Walks, Walks and more Walks

3.Soriano Cf Fastballs, Fastballs and more Fastballs

4.Lee 1b

5.Ramirez 3b

6.Barret C

7.DeRosa RF

8.Cesar SS

 

Lefty, Righty order thing really is not that important. A good rhb can hit both lhp and rhp with little difficulty as opposed to a lhb(Jones, Floyd) who struggle with lhp.

 

This is the ideally lineup I see with a good balance of defense, patience in the correct spots and power.

[Allroy]

Okay, obviously these lineups aren't working. This team has got to score more runs than this. Before we can shake things up too much, we have to get Soriano to move. He is absolutley clueless right now, and he's a big part of the problem. I know we promised him the leadoff spot, I just hope he's willing to make a change. At least until he starts hitting better. Actually, for the kind of money he's making he should bat wherever the hell Lou puts him. Does anyone know if he's been approached about this yet? I hope to see some major changes in the lineup this afternoon.

[Yestheydo]

Jeez, let's relax. Soriano will hit, probably as soon as the weather warms up.

[KingCubsFan]

My Lineup

 

1.The Riot 2b

2.Murton Lf Walks, Walks and more Walks

3.Soriano Cf Fastballs, Fastballs and more Fastballs

4.Lee 1b

5.Ramirez 3b

6.Barret C

7.DeRosa RF

8.Cesar SS

 

Lefty, Righty order thing really is not that important. A good rhb can hit both lhp and rhp with little difficulty as opposed to a lhb(Jones, Floyd) who struggle with lhp.

 

This is the ideally lineup I see with a good balance of defense, patience in the correct spots and power.

On what planet is Mark DeRosa a better hitter than Jacque Jones? DeRosa should play against lefties, but I don't see how keeping Jones on the bench all the time gives us the best chance to win.

Edit: And I don't see why Soriano should be hitting 3rd. With his low OBP, he should be hitting 5th and driving in people on base ahead of him

[jersey cubs fan]

My Lineup

 

1.The Riot 2b

2.Murton Lf Walks, Walks and more Walks

3.Soriano Cf Fastballs, Fastballs and more Fastballs

4.Lee 1b

5.Ramirez 3b

6.Barret C

7.DeRosa RF

8.Cesar SS

 

Lefty, Righty order thing really is not that important. A good rhb can hit both lhp and rhp with little difficulty as opposed to a lhb(Jones, Floyd) who struggle with lhp.

 

This is the ideally lineup I see with a good balance of defense, patience in the correct spots and power.

On what planet is Mark DeRosa a better hitter than Jacque Jones? DeRosa should play against lefties, but I don't see how keeping Jones on the bench all the time gives us the best chance to win.

Edit: And I don't see why Soriano should be hitting 3rd. With his low OBP, he should be hitting 5th and driving in people on base ahead of him

 

Jones should get the majority of playing time against RHP when he is hitting well. But his career is so marred by bad stretches and bad seasons that anytime he's struggling he should sit with regularity.

[soapy]

Jeez, let's relax. Soriano will hit, probably as soon as the weather warms up.

I agree with that and wanting to move him has nothing to do with his poor start (for me). He's just not a lead-off hitter. If Lou is looking for ways to shake up his offense, as he says, then this is an option. On the flip side, the Cubs don't really have anybody else who is a far better option at leadoff unless Theriot keeps it up and/or Murton starts playing every day.

[tkenm356]

I was, and still am, an advocate of Soriano in the 1-spot. However, I wouldn't be opposed to a change of the lineup, especially with the way Theriot is hitting. Shaking things up a bit can't hurt, and certaintly it's not working right now the way it is.

 

I do agree that once the weather warms up it should go back the way it was, but mixing it up seems like it wouldn't hurt any more than it would leaving things the way they are.

[jersey cubs fan]

I do agree that once the weather warms up it should go back the way it was, but mixing it up seems like it wouldn't hurt any more than it would leaving things the way they are.

 

If you change things up and the team starts playing well, would you still put it back the other way just because of weather conditions? The only reason to bat Soriano leadoff is if he truly has a mental hangup hitting anywhere else. If he hits better somewhere else, there's no longer a reason to bat him leadoff.

[tkenm356]

I do agree that once the weather warms up it should go back the way it was, but mixing it up seems like it wouldn't hurt any more than it would leaving things the way they are.

 

If you change things up and the team starts playing well, would you still put it back the other way just because of weather conditions? The only reason to bat Soriano leadoff is if he truly has a mental hangup hitting anywhere else. If he hits better somewhere else, there's no longer a reason to bat him leadoff.

 

Then let's assume Soriano starts hitting the ball well and whoever is batting in the lead-off spot stops hitting well and it gets into a swing of things that we are in now, and we have no viable lead-off hitter?

 

I'd move Soriano back for a few games and see if he continues to hit well.

 

I will continue to use the example of Soriano not being able to hit well in the #3 and #5 spots while he was in TEX, in a hitters park, in the beginning of his prime years, batting in the middle of a lineup of Michael Young, Hank Blalock, and Mark Teixiera when ALL of those players were putting up incredible numbers

[jersey cubs fan]

I do agree that once the weather warms up it should go back the way it was, but mixing it up seems like it wouldn't hurt any more than it would leaving things the way they are.

 

If you change things up and the team starts playing well, would you still put it back the other way just because of weather conditions? The only reason to bat Soriano leadoff is if he truly has a mental hangup hitting anywhere else. If he hits better somewhere else, there's no longer a reason to bat him leadoff.

 

Then let's assume Soriano starts hitting the ball well and whoever is batting in the lead-off spot stops hitting well and it gets into a swing of things that we are in now, and we have no viable lead-off hitter?

 

I'd move Soriano back for a few games and see if he continues to hit well.

 

I will continue to use the example of Soriano not being able to hit well in the #3 and #5 spots while he was in TEX, in a hitters park, in the beginning of his prime years, batting in the middle of a lineup of Michael Young, Hank Blalock, and Mark Teixiera when ALL of those players were putting up incredible numbers

 

Soriano stopped hitting in the 1st spot though, and hit better out of the leadoff spot than in it in 2004. The notion that he can't hit anywhere else just doesn't hold up to logic. He's not really a viable leadoff hitter himself.

[Rob]

vs. RHP

 

LF - Floyd

1B - Lee

CF - Soriano

3B - Aramis

RF - Jones

C - Barrett

2B - Theriot

SS - Izturis

Pitcher

 

vs. LHP

 

LF - Murton

1B - Lee

CF - Soriano

3B - Aramis

C - Barrett

RF - DeRosa

2B - Theriot

SS - Izturis

Pitcher

 

That's about as close as we can get to maximizing runs scored while using just the current roster and putting people in roles they'd be likely to be put in. I don't think we'll be seeing DeRosa or Theriot exile Izturis to the bench though... and I'm not convinced Cedeno is a better option with the bat just yet... both players have shown good progress in their approach under Perry.

[tkenm356]

I do agree that once the weather warms up it should go back the way it was, but mixing it up seems like it wouldn't hurt any more than it would leaving things the way they are.

 

If you change things up and the team starts playing well, would you still put it back the other way just because of weather conditions? The only reason to bat Soriano leadoff is if he truly has a mental hangup hitting anywhere else. If he hits better somewhere else, there's no longer a reason to bat him leadoff.

 

Then let's assume Soriano starts hitting the ball well and whoever is batting in the lead-off spot stops hitting well and it gets into a swing of things that we are in now, and we have no viable lead-off hitter?

 

I'd move Soriano back for a few games and see if he continues to hit well.

 

I will continue to use the example of Soriano not being able to hit well in the #3 and #5 spots while he was in TEX, in a hitters park, in the beginning of his prime years, batting in the middle of a lineup of Michael Young, Hank Blalock, and Mark Teixiera when ALL of those players were putting up incredible numbers

 

Soriano stopped hitting in the 1st spot though, and hit better out of the leadoff spot than in it in 2004. The notion that he can't hit anywhere else just doesn't hold up to logic. He's not really a viable leadoff hitter himself.

 

Compared to the prototypical lead-off hitters, I tend to agree. But he's had plenty of AB's in the 3 and 5 hole to make it a nice sample size (656AB at 3, 618AB at 5), and his averages of .260 and .271 pale in comparison to his .290 at the lead-off spot.

 

I honestly think he'd do fine in the 3 or 5 hole, but he was brought into the majors and primed to be a lead-off hitter, and when Texas took him out of that situation he floundered, and Washington put him back in that position and he had the best year of his career.

 

Like I said, switching it up now and then can't hurt, but I still would like to see Soriano get the majority of his AB at thew lead-off spot, since Theriot is really the only other viable option we can put at lead-off to fit that typical lead-off hitter stereotype, and he hasn't exactly won the starting spot anywhere yet, though it seems inevitable he will. But Theriot is hitting like crazy out of the 2-hole, so would we want to move him out of that spot?

[jersey cubs fan]

Compared to the prototypical lead-off hitters, I tend to agree. But he's had plenty of AB's in the 3 and 5 hole to make it a nice sample size (656AB at 3, 618AB at 5), and his averages of .260 and .271 pale in comparison to his .290 at the lead-off spot.

 

I honestly think he'd do fine in the 3 or 5 hole, but he was brought into the majors and primed to be a lead-off hitter, and when Texas took him out of that situation he floundered, and Washington put him back in that position and he had the best year of his career.

 

But he also hit leadoff in those years he struggled in Texas, and wasn't good. I think it's much more likely the struggles were related to the fact that everybody knew how easy of an out he was if you didn't give him stuff to hit. He's a terribly undisciplined hitter who will get himself out most of the time, no matter where he is in the lineup. He appeared to make some adjustments last year (plus he was facing an entirely new league of pitchers) so he got away with it.

 

Soriano crapped the bed in the 2003 playoffs. About as bad of a stretch as you can have. He was villified in NY and they got rid of him. He went out and pretty much repeated his career numbers out of the 3 spot. Then in 2005 he did a little better out of the 5 spot (but was worse at leadoff).

[tkenm356]

Compared to the prototypical lead-off hitters, I tend to agree. But he's had plenty of AB's in the 3 and 5 hole to make it a nice sample size (656AB at 3, 618AB at 5), and his averages of .260 and .271 pale in comparison to his .290 at the lead-off spot.

 

I honestly think he'd do fine in the 3 or 5 hole, but he was brought into the majors and primed to be a lead-off hitter, and when Texas took him out of that situation he floundered, and Washington put him back in that position and he had the best year of his career.

 

But he also hit leadoff in those years he struggled in Texas, and wasn't good. I think it's much more likely the struggles were related to the fact that everybody knew how easy of an out he was if you didn't give him stuff to hit. He's a terribly undisciplined hitter who will get himself out most of the time, no matter where he is in the lineup. He appeared to make some adjustments last year (plus he was facing an entirely new league of pitchers) so he got away with it.

 

Soriano crapped the bed in the 2003 playoffs. About as bad of a stretch as you can have. He was villified in NY and they got rid of him. He went out and pretty much repeated his career numbers out of the 3 spot. Then in 2005 he did a little better out of the 5 spot (but was worse at leadoff).

 

True, although he had less than 200PA at lead-off in the 2 years in Texas, so the sample size was not as big. Regardless, I think we both can agree that he will arguably hit similar production numbers in any position in the lineup regardless of who hits around him. I just personally prefer he remain in the lead-off spot most of the time

[frostwyrm]

We need Murton in the lineup. Main thing we need though is for our expensive sluggers to finally start hitting some home runs.

[98navigator]

Tonight's lineup as reported on The Score:

 

Soriano CF

Theriot 3B

Lee 1B

Murton RF

Barrett C

Jones LF

DeRosa 2B

Izturiz SS

Marquis

[Omar]

Tonight's lineup as reported on The Score:

 

Soriano CF

Theriot 3B

Lee 1B

Murton RF

Barrett C

Jones LF

DeRosa 2B

Izturiz SS

Marquis

 

Well.. No Ramirez.. but at least Murton is in.

[treebird]

oh good aramis is still dead

[jersey cubs fan]

Tonight's lineup as reported on The Score:

 

Soriano CF

Theriot 3B

Lee 1B

Murton RF

Barrett C

Jones LF

DeRosa 2B

Izturiz SS

Marquis

 

Murton in RF and Jones in LF? Are you sure that's not flip-flopped, or that Floyd isn't in place of Jones?

 

I find it odd that Lou put Murton in the 4 hole, considering the main reason he's been out most of the season was due to a lack of power. And why is Barrett given middle of the order status? He's been as bad as Izturis this year.

[98navigator]

Tonight's lineup as reported on The Score:

 

Soriano CF

Theriot 3B

Lee 1B

Murton RF

Barrett C

Jones LF

DeRosa 2B

Izturiz SS

Marquis

 

Murton in RF and Jones in LF? Are you sure that's not flip-flopped, or that Floyd isn't in place of Jones?

 

I find it odd that Lou put Murton in the 4 hole, considering the main reason he's been out most of the season was due to a lack of power. And why is Barrett given middle of the order status? He's been as bad as Izturis this year.

 

The only question is DeRosa at 2B or 3B. I've heard both.

[CubColtPacer]

Tonight's lineup as reported on The Score:

 

Soriano CF

Theriot 3B

Lee 1B

Murton RF

Barrett C

Jones LF

DeRosa 2B

Izturiz SS

Marquis

 

Murton in RF and Jones in LF? Are you sure that's not flip-flopped, or that Floyd isn't in place of Jones?

 

I find it odd that Lou put Murton in the 4 hole, considering the main reason he's been out most of the season was due to a lack of power. And why is Barrett given middle of the order status? He's been as bad as Izturis this year.

 

Yeah, we're discussing the flip-flop in the game thread as well. Our guess is that while Murton learns right it makes sense to try to have the best OF defender play the other corner so Soriano can help Murton out a little bit.

 

As far as power, that has been our reason why Floyd is playing, but it never was Lou's reason.

 

As far as Barrett, the only player who really has been better than him who is behind him is DeRosa, and he is 1 for his last 12, while Barrett is 5/17 with 4 BB's this past week.

[soapy]

Okay, so now what? I'm assuming (at least for the time being) we are looking at a Floyd, Jones, Murton OF. Soooooo......maybe we do something like this (if Ramirez is back):

 

Theriot SS (not likely, I know)

Murton RF

Lee 1B

Ramirez 3B

Floyd LF

Barrett C

Jones CF

DeRosa 2B

 

I don't think Lou is about to bench Izturis for Theriot, but I'm not sure how else he'd do his lineup. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be shocked to see Izturis moved up to the top of the lineup. I hope not.

 

ETA: Blanco will probably start today so the lineup could look really strange. Or just put DeRosa where Barrett is above and have Henry hit 8th.

[Anomalied]

Maybe...

 

1. Theriot (2B)

2. Jones (CF)

3. Lee (1B)

4. Ramirez (3B)

5. Floyd (LF)

6. Barrett ©

7. DeRosa (RF)

8. Izturis (SS)

 

Though I hate to see Murton benched.