HOF Voting - this bothers me

[CuseCubFan69]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

The pony express would have brought it to Bruce yesterday but they had the day off.

[Sammy Sofa]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

"He was wearing a onion on his belt, which was the style at the time..."

[Guest]

Hard to tell if it is the person, the role or both with Carrie. I'm inclined to cut her a bit more slack than some here, as a lot of what she does is simply her job. She's paid to write common denominator pieces. If you want real analysis, go to BP, BA, Hardball Times or even here. :D

 

Yeah, but to say that a big reason that Hawk gets her vote for the HOF is because he was a nice guy who signed lots of autographs? That doesn't qualify one to be in the Hall.

She only said that it was one reason, not a big one. Hawk's relations with the fans, how he comported himself on and off the field is a legitimate factor. Maybe not a big one, but it is legitimate given the definitions on the ballot.

[CuseCubFan69]

Hard to tell if it is the person, the role or both with Carrie. I'm inclined to cut her a bit more slack than some here, as a lot of what she does is simply her job. She's paid to write common denominator pieces. If you want real analysis, go to BP, BA, Hardball Times or even here. :D

 

Yeah, but to say that a big reason that Hawk gets her vote for the HOF is because he was a nice guy who signed lots of autographs? That doesn't qualify one to be in the Hall.

She only said that it was one reason, not a big one. Hawk's relations with the fans, how he comported himself on and off the field is a legitimate factor. Maybe not a big one, but it is legitimate given the definitions on the ballot.

 

I agree and I'm sick of players like Micheal Irvin that get too much publicity for being a crack head. There's nothing wrong with having a good character be part of the picture.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

:lmao:

[Mark Priors Calves]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

:lmao:

 

agreed. that was damn funny.

[Bruce Miles]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

Actually, one guy asked me in person and another sent his via the U.S. Mail. I don't even remember how to send a letter anymore.

[USSoccer]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

Derrek Lee hit 60 rods to the hogs head back in aught 5.

[goonys evil twin]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

Actually, one guy asked me in person and another sent his via the U.S. Mail. I don't even remember how to send a letter anymore.

 

That's fantastic. Well, good for them. I generally stear clear of those topics when talking to my dad, and others, about the game. It's much more enjoyable to just discuss the game. But I've brought up the whole OBP/walks thing with him and he's completely receptive to the topics. Shouldn't be surprising though, since he was my first coach and constantly talked about looking for a specific pitch in a zone to drive early in the count and all that. My high school coach, who was younger, was completely opposite, preaching aggressiveness at all times and the need to pound the ball into the ground.

[CuseCubFan69]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

Actually, one guy asked me in person and another sent his via the U.S. Mail. I don't even remember how to send a letter anymore.

 

That's fantastic. Well, good for them. I generally stear clear of those topics when talking to my dad, and others, about the game. It's much more enjoyable to just discuss the game. But I've brought up the whole OBP/walks thing with him and he's completely receptive to the topics. Shouldn't be surprising though, since he was my first coach and constantly talked about looking for a specific pitch in a zone to drive early in the count and all that. My high school coach, who was younger, was completely opposite, preaching aggressiveness at all times and the need to pound the ball into the ground.

 

Since when do they let scorekeepers play?

[cheapseats]

Hard to tell if it is the person, the role or both with Carrie. I'm inclined to cut her a bit more slack than some here, as a lot of what she does is simply her job. She's paid to write common denominator pieces. If you want real analysis, go to BP, BA, Hardball Times or even here. :D

 

It's going to be a long time before you see pieces in the mainstream media that are akin to what they do in BP and the Hardball Times. Now and then, yes, but not regularly. And with some good reason. While most of the people here are in-tune with sabermetrics and the like, you must remember that this is a very specialized board and that many in the general public don't have the foggiest notion of what things like VORP are. Nor do they care to learn. I had an older reader ask me what OPS was. Another asked why I was constantly "carrying on" about on-base percentage.

The job of the baseball writer in the newspaper is to tell a story. Sometimes that story revolves around stats. Other times it centers on human interest or injury or intrigue of some sort. On top of that, you have very limited space with which to work in the paper. (As more papers focus more on their Web sites, that problem will be alleviated somewhat, thankfully.)

I still have to write for a general audience and bring many of them along slowly when it comes to some of the newer thinking that's shaping the game.

 

A few thoughts about Bruce's post:

 

1. "The job of the baseball writer in the newspaper is to tell a story." I'm pretty sure we can expand that statement to cover all sports writers in newspapers and other forms of media.

 

I'd personally like to strangle Dick Ebersol (and others like him) for his role in emphasizing storytelling over the athletic event itself. I think it's great that a 15-year-old swimmer from Belarus overcame cancer and dyslexia on her way to the Olympics, but that doesn't mean that I'd rather watch a smarmy ten-minute documentary about her struggles instead of the actual freestyle race.

 

Also, the need to tell a story produces some very questionable cause and effect relationships between off-field events and on-field events. When Rex Grossman throws three interceptions, it's not because he didn't read the defenses correctly, it's because he has a punctured soul and a cracked psyche. When the hits weren't falling for Aramis in the first part of 2006, it had nothing to do with BABIP, it's because he doesn't have the guts and leadership ability to put the team on his back with Derrek Lee hurt. If a sports writer feels the need to do a story on who Derek Jeter is dating or what Ryan Church's religious beliefs or Carl Everett's thoughts on dinosaurs, that's fine. But don't tell me there's a correlation between dating Jennifer Biel and fielding grounders at shortstop. Don't tell me that the Nationals stink because of "bad chemistry" in the clubhouse. Don't tell me that Everett's weird personal beliefs have anything to do with hitting a fastball.

 

2. It is possible to tell a story to a wide audience without producing total drivel. Integrity (artistic or otherwise) does not preclude commercial success or widespread appeal. The Departed and Scary Movie 4 put up similar box office numbers, for example.

 

I don't dislike Muskat's work because she writes for a broad audience. I dislike her work because she is an unabashed apologist for the Cubs organization.

 

3. The Bill Plaschkes, Jay Mariottis, and Carrie Muskats of this world make me appreciate writers like Bruce all the more. Sure, he's not going into the same depth as guys like Dan Fox or Nate Silver, but it would be inappropriate to do so considering his audience.

[cheapseats]

I had an older reader ask me what OPS was.

 

Now that hurts. Why do I feel like the guy in the GEICO commercial?

 

Well, I'll be 50 in April, and the guy who asked about OPS is in his late 60s. The guy that said I was "carrying on" about on-base percentage claimed to be a Cubs fan for 60 years.

 

Were these questions sent to you via telegraph?

 

Derrek Lee hit 60 rods to the hogs head back in aught 5.

 

I laughed at this. :lol:

[Bruce Miles]

Hard to tell if it is the person, the role or both with Carrie. I'm inclined to cut her a bit more slack than some here, as a lot of what she does is simply her job. She's paid to write common denominator pieces. If you want real analysis, go to BP, BA, Hardball Times or even here. :D

 

It's going to be a long time before you see pieces in the mainstream media that are akin to what they do in BP and the Hardball Times. Now and then, yes, but not regularly. And with some good reason. While most of the people here are in-tune with sabermetrics and the like, you must remember that this is a very specialized board and that many in the general public don't have the foggiest notion of what things like VORP are. Nor do they care to learn. I had an older reader ask me what OPS was. Another asked why I was constantly "carrying on" about on-base percentage.

The job of the baseball writer in the newspaper is to tell a story. Sometimes that story revolves around stats. Other times it centers on human interest or injury or intrigue of some sort. On top of that, you have very limited space with which to work in the paper. (As more papers focus more on their Web sites, that problem will be alleviated somewhat, thankfully.)

I still have to write for a general audience and bring many of them along slowly when it comes to some of the newer thinking that's shaping the game.

 

A few thoughts about Bruce's post:

 

1. "The job of the baseball writer in the newspaper is to tell a story." I'm pretty sure we can expand that statement to cover all sports writers in newspapers and other forms of media.

 

I'd personally like to strangle Dick Ebersol (and others like him) for his role in emphasizing storytelling over the athletic event itself. I think it's great that a 15-year-old swimmer from Belarus overcame cancer and dyslexia on her way to the Olympics, but that doesn't mean that I'd rather watch a smarmy ten-minute documentary about her struggles instead of the actual freestyle race.

 

Also, the need to tell a story produces some very questionable cause and effect relationships between off-field events and on-field events. When Rex Grossman throws three interceptions, it's not because he didn't read the defenses correctly, it's because he has a punctured soul and a cracked psyche. When the hits weren't falling for Aramis in the first part of 2006, it had nothing to do with BABIP, it's because he doesn't have the guts and leadership ability to put the team on his back with Derrek Lee hurt. If a sports writer feels the need to do a story on who Derek Jeter is dating or what Ryan Church's religious beliefs or Carl Everett's thoughts on dinosaurs, that's fine. But don't tell me there's a correlation between dating Jennifer Biel and fielding grounders at shortstop. Don't tell me that the Nationals stink because of "bad chemistry" in the clubhouse. Don't tell me that Everett's weird personal beliefs have anything to do with hitting a fastball.

 

2. It is possible to tell a story to a wide audience without producing total drivel. Integrity (artistic or otherwise) does not preclude commercial success or widespread appeal. The Departed and Scary Movie 4 put up similar box office numbers, for example.

 

I don't dislike Muskat's work because she writes for a broad audience. I dislike her work because she is an unabashed apologist for the Cubs organization.

 

3. The Bill Plaschkes, Jay Mariottis, and Carrie Muskats of this world make me appreciate writers like Bruce all the more. Sure, he's not going into the same depth as guys like Dan Fox or Nate Silver, but it would be inappropriate to do so considering his audience.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Cheapseats. You make great points, and I appreciate them and take them to heart. You're right, you can tell a "story" and still make it relevant without reducing it to meaningless drivel. In fact, that's REAL storytelling and it's what we in the media should be striving to do every day. Great insight.

[bhogg]

My dad is just an average run of the mill baseball fan. He played a little bit as a youngster, but he could give a rat's ass about stats. He watches a game for the game itself.

 

For the past few years, he's always making comments about certain players needing towork the count, take walks, etc etc etc.

 

AS a matter of fact, he constantly talks about things that have sabremetric titles, yet he never utters the words VORP, OPS, or anything else like it.

 

I'm way too dumb to do it, but maybe that's the angle the sabre-savvy writers should take. . . . talk about sabremetrics without talking about.

 

Clear as mud, no?

[Amazing_Grace]

So, put her, Madden and McCarver in a locked room. Which one is the last to proudly announce they'll need a key to open the door? Don't think too hard. Your head may explode.

 

You really think McCarver could figure it out? I don't. McCarver is to sportscasting as Dusty is to managing, only maybe worse.

 

In all seriousness, some people are paid to write serious analysis and some people are paid to write fluffy pieces that are easily understandable to even the dumbest fool that can turn on the computer or pick up a newspaper. I suspect Carrie is the latter and I'd say she does a fair job of it. Nothing offensive or controversial, just fluff for the masses. Like it or not, there's a market for that.

 

Dawson played before I became a Cubs fan, but I think he deserves to be in, as does Santo. Too much emphasis is placed on winning World Series and being on good teams, which is unfair because really a player can't control that much. I think that's why several deserving ex-Cubs get overlooked.