Highest OPS on the team

[Guest]

I like Theriot, but there are too many better options at second who will be available on the FA market. Let Theriot be the middle infielder on the bench next season. He'd be a valuable player in that role.

 

And if Cesar is the starting SS, the backup MI will likely see a lot of playing time.

 

I think Theriot is a good bet to be better than izturis so that would be a positive development.

[jmajew]

Is there any way we can get Theriots splits in the minors. Up until 2005 he was a switch hitter. I would like to see what he was batting as a Lefty and a Righty in the years before that. As of now I am taking the stance that his 2005-06 MiLB stats are more of what we should expect because of the switch to batting righty full time. If his OPS is only 750 but he can put up an OBP of 350 i'd be more than willing to let him start and bat second or leadoff. Just my two cents.

[Abe Frohman]

Is there any way we can get Theriots splits in the minors. Up until 2005 he was a switch hitter. I would like to see what he was batting as a Lefty and a Righty in the years before that. As of now I am taking the stance that his 2005-06 MiLB stats are more of what we should expect because of the switch to batting righty full time. If his OPS is only 750 but he can put up an OBP of 350 i'd be more than willing to let him start and bat second or leadoff. Just my two cents.

 

We could always just go with his #'s in AAA, AA, and A when he was hitting only righty. It's a higher level, and shows what he is doing now is pretty much inline with his projected improvement.

 

OK, let's just consider this.

 

Theriot 2006:

134 AB's

33 Runs

41 Hits

10 2B

2 3B

3 HR

13 RBI

16 BB

11 SB

 

 

 

Theriot Projected (x4):

536 AB's

132 Runs

164 Hits

40 2B

8 3B

12 HR

52 RBI

64 BB

44 SB

 

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

[SouthSideRyan]

Is there any way we can get Theriots splits in the minors. Up until 2005 he was a switch hitter. I would like to see what he was batting as a Lefty and a Righty in the years before that. As of now I am taking the stance that his 2005-06 MiLB stats are more of what we should expect because of the switch to batting righty full time. If his OPS is only 750 but he can put up an OBP of 350 i'd be more than willing to let him start and bat second or leadoff. Just my two cents.

 

The splits would be skewed cause right handers hit better against lefties, which would be the only time TheRiot would be hitting right handed as a switch hitter.

[goonys evil twin]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

[Abe Frohman]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Matt Murton is in the same camp. Build around these young guys who won't be costing the organization too much money for a few years. Murton is a pretty decent ballplayer, as is Theriot. I'll take performance over potential.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Except what he did in the minors isn't even close to what he's doing in this short stint. And I don't think I can emphasize enough how different his minor league career is from this stretch.

[goonys evil twin]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Matt Murton is in the same camp. Build around these young guys who won't be costing the organization too much money for a few years. Murton is a pretty decent ballplayer, as is Theriot. I'll take performance over potential.

 

Matt Murton and Ryan Theriot are not comparable.

[Mizzou]

Theriot isn't going to hit for a high SLG%, I think everyone can agree on that. But I see no reason why he won't hit for a high AVG and have a nice OBP - as he's done for the past few years. So he doesn't hit for power, so what? Most second basemen don't.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Theriot isn't going to hit for a high SLG%, I think everyone can agree on that. But I see no reason why he won't hit for a high AVG and have a nice OBP - as he's done for the past few years. So he doesn't hit for power, so what? Most second basemen don't.

 

Very few players hit for as little power as Theriot.

[Mizzou]

Theriot isn't going to hit for a high SLG%, I think everyone can agree on that. But I see no reason why he won't hit for a high AVG and have a nice OBP - as he's done for the past few years. So he doesn't hit for power, so what? Most second basemen don't.

 

Very few players hit for as little power as Theriot.

And very few Cubs get on base as often as Theriot does.

[mg420]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

of course not. but you also cannot take a players minor leauge #'s to project what every player will do in the majors. if you you could, alot of AAAA guys would be mvp's & all stars in the majors instead of bench players or still in triple at age 30. minor leauge #'s ARE NOT the end all and be all when it comes to major leauge production.

[jmajew]

Is there any way we can get Theriots splits in the minors. Up until 2005 he was a switch hitter. I would like to see what he was batting as a Lefty and a Righty in the years before that. As of now I am taking the stance that his 2005-06 MiLB stats are more of what we should expect because of the switch to batting righty full time. If his OPS is only 750 but he can put up an OBP of 350 i'd be more than willing to let him start and bat second or leadoff. Just my two cents.

 

The splits would be skewed cause right handers hit better against lefties, which would be the only time TheRiot would be hitting right handed as a switch hitter.

 

That may not be true because Theriot vs RH in his stint in the majors this year is very comparable to him vs LH. I do not expect him to keep up the pace he is at, that would be foolish.

[WrigleyField 22]

Theriot is plain and simply not comparable to Neifi. Thats not to say we should let Theriot start (barring Ramirez bolting and going into a youth movement, I dont think we should), but you should come up with a better reason, because your current one is weak.

 

My reason for not wanting Theriot to start has nothing to do with Neifi. It's because we can and should do better. The comparison to Neifi was just pointing out how pointless the "nearly a quarter of a season" claim was.

 

Well thats fine, and I'm sorry if I'm confusing you with someone else, but I saw the same Neifi-Theriot comparison made before and they are simply not comparable. I agree with you that we can do better than Theriot. The "should" is tricky, it really all depends on what the other offseason moves and whether you have faith that "better" player Hendry signs will actually be significantly better.

[Abe Frohman]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Matt Murton is in the same camp. Build around these young guys who won't be costing the organization too much money for a few years. Murton is a pretty decent ballplayer, as is Theriot. I'll take performance over potential.

 

Matt Murton and Ryan Theriot are not comparable.

 

I didn't compare Murton and Theriot. I pointed out that they are both pretty good ballplayers who are young, inexpensive, and already on our roster.

 

I understand what you are saying about the #'s projection, but I have a point. Spending money does not translate into having a good ballclub (as we see this season). The Cubs have got to stock this team with guys that produce. We traded away two great pitching prospects for Juan Pierre, and kept the ones that were more "promising" prospects (Guzman & Hill). It is good that at least one of them is working out.

 

How many more prospects can the Cubs deal? How many top free agents are going to be consider coming to this trainwreck?

 

My point is that it is time to build around the young guys. Murton is a good player to keep. Theriot, to me, looks like the type of ballplayer the Cubs can use (even if he is overachieving). Sign or trade for a good defensive CF with power, a couple of quality starters (if they can), and get a dependable SS, and things should start looking better.

[goonys evil twin]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

of course not. but you also cannot take a players minor leauge #'s to project what every player will do in the majors. if you you could, alot of AAAA guys would be mvp's & all stars in the majors instead of bench players or still in triple at age 30. minor leauge #'s ARE NOT the end all and be all when it comes to major leauge production.

 

Good minor league numbers don't always translate to good major league numbers. But poor minor league numbers often translate to poor major league numbers. Your example doesn't apply here. Guys get weeded out as they climb levels, it's not the other way around.

 

Major league callup numbers ARE NOT the end all and be all when it comes to major league production later in their career.

 

All I'm saying is be cautious, don't get carried away. I don't get why so many people feel the need to criticize that theory of treating young players.

[mg420]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Matt Murton is in the same camp. Build around these young guys who won't be costing the organization too much money for a few years. Murton is a pretty decent ballplayer, as is Theriot. I'll take performance over potential.

 

Matt Murton and Ryan Theriot are not comparable.

 

I didn't compare Murton and Theriot. I pointed out that they are both pretty good ballplayers who are young, inexpensive, and already on our roster.

 

I understand what you are saying about the #'s projection, but I have a point. Spending money does not translate into having a good ballclub (as we see this season). The Cubs have got to stock this team with guys that produce. We traded away two great pitching prospects for Juan Pierre, and kept the ones that were more "promising" prospects (Guzman & Hill). It is good that at least one of them is working out.

 

How many more prospects can the Cubs deal? How many top free agents are going to be consider coming to this trainwreck?

 

My point is that it is time to build around the young guys. Murton is a good player to keep. Theriot, to me, looks like the type of ballplayer the Cubs can use (even if he is overachieving). Sign or trade for a good defensive CF with power, a couple of quality starters (if they can), and get a dependable SS, and things should start looking better.

 

i think they were second tier at best. pinto walks way too many guys and nolasco isnt exactly tearing up the leauge after a very hot start. i dont think they will turn out to be a huge loss when all is said and done.

[cubweiser03]

Gatdamn, I'll take that any day of the week.

 

Obviously. That's not the freaking point. You can't just take a short time frame and multiply it to determine what a guy will do.

 

When's he going to cool down, my man? Maybe, just maybe, we might have something here. With all the numbers being thrown around here, why not just look at what he has done in the Minors, and accept the fact that the Cubs may just have a pretty decent ball player?

 

Except what he did in the minors isn't even close to what he's doing in this short stint. And I don't think I can emphasize enough how different his minor league career is from this stretch.

 

How about his BB/k ratio though? He is maintaing this ratio at the MLB. I think this is really important # when looking at his comparables. Im not going to say he is going to keep batting .322 but if he bats say .290 its not crazy he can have an OBP of .360-.370 because of his steady bb/k ratio.

 

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

[goonys evil twin]

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

 

It's the HR's that are skewing his SLG. He's hit one every 42 at bats, compared to once every 410 in the minors.

[cubweiser03]

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

 

It's the HR's that are skewing his SLG. He's hit one every 42 at bats, compared to once every 410 in the minors.

 

Yeah right. How did i miss talking about that? I was overlooking that knowing those were higher than normal, i didnt translate that into slugging subconsciously. Haha. Take the 3HR's away totally and you got .404. Turn those 3Hrs into Db's and you got .454.

[goonys evil twin]

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

 

It's the HR's that are skewing his SLG. He's hit one every 42 at bats, compared to once every 410 in the minors.

 

Yeah right. How did i miss talking about that? I was overlooking that knowing those were higher than normal, i didnt translate that into slugging subconsciously. Haha. Take the 3HR's away totally and you got .404. Turn those 3Hrs into Db's and you got .454.

 

As a comparison, Pagan had his SLG hit .600 after his big 2 run homer return from injury game. It was .495 as recently as Aug 13, when he was around the AB total that Theriot is currently at. And now it's .399, just 50 ABs later. He had a .371 career SLG in the minors, and hit a HR once every 164 AB. Theriot had a .337 SLG. He's at .504 right now, but was .400 just one month ago. SLG can make huge swings over the course of a short time frame, because a "perfect" SLG is 4.000 (a HR every at bat). OBP only sways from 1.000 - 0.000.

[mg420]

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

 

It's the HR's that are skewing his SLG. He's hit one every 42 at bats, compared to once every 410 in the minors.

 

take a look at torii hunter's minor leauge stats. how does a guy with 42 career minor leauge hr's in 6 years and a career sluggin % under .400 hit 25-30 each year in the majors?

 

according to your logic it shouldnt be happening but it is.

[Mizzou]

I don't understand the ongoing discussion of his SLG. Obviously you'd like every player's SLG to be high, but when you're talking about a top of the order hitter, it's far less important than a middle of the lineup hitter. As a leadoff or number two hitter, a player's job is to get on base for the 3-4-5 hitters. There is no denying that Theriot is, and always has been, good at getting on base. I could care less if his SLG is low, so long as he gets on base a good percentage of the time. And Theriot does just that. Any power from a number two hitter should be looked at as a bonus, rather than a lack of power being looked at as a negative.

[goonys evil twin]

His slugging % is probably a little over-inflated by his avevage. He may not be a huge power threat but he seems to hit for a good amount of doubles. In the minors last year he hit 2bs at 1 per 16 AB, in the majors he is hitting them at 13.5. The doubles are another indication that what he is doing isnt a fluke when it comes to his average. Getting cheap doubles is a different story than cheap hits. FWIW its taken Eckstein 4 times as many bats to hit almost twice the amount of doubles Theriot has.

 

It's the HR's that are skewing his SLG. He's hit one every 42 at bats, compared to once every 410 in the minors.

 

take a look at torii hunter's minor leauge stats. how does a guy with 42 career minor leauge hr's in 6 years and a career sluggin % under .400 hit 25-30 each year in the majors?

 

according to your logic it shouldnt be happening but it is.

 

He hit 10 in 335 at bats as a 19 year old in A ball. He hit 7 in 391 AB as a 20 year old in high A. Then 7/342 in AA at 21, and 8/471 in AA at 22. As a 25 year old in AAA, he hit 18 in 209. He hit a HR once every 37.7 AB as a minor league. He's hit 1 every 23.8 AB in the majors. That's an improvement, but nowhere near the astronomical improvement Theriot has experienced in his short stint.

[Abe Frohman]

All I care about is Theriot scoring runs.

 

We all know that scoring runs and driving them in are TEAM statistics. The team is better with him in the lineup. Some intangible stats never show up in the books. I am a LSU fan, and I like what I see out of Theriot more now then I did when rooting for him as a Tiger. I never thought he would get higher than A+ or maybe AA ball.

 

He seems to be maturing at every stop, unlike a lot of our other minor league/major league prospects. I don't care if Theriot is overachieving - in my eyes he has proven that he is ready for ML time, and let's face it - he is producing when given a chance.

 

That is how you win a starting job.