Walker

[Jon]

Pierre is still having a horrible year, just like he had last year. It's no fluke.

 

He can get all the singles he wants, but his OBP is still terrible.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The point is, you can win a world series with Pierre in CF.

 

I have no problems with Pierre in CF for the Cubs IF they have a lot of talent elsewhere and he sports a 361 OBP like he did in 2003. That's not happening, and I would prefer an upgrade.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I dont know why some people miss Walker. The guy hurts your team on defense. Only thing he is good for, is a bat off the bench. Last time I checked, you win with pitching and defense.

 

Last time I checked, you win with offense too.

 

Pitching and defense, is more important than offense. If you dont have a solid pitching staff supported with a solid defense, your not going to win many baseball games.

 

Yet, you advocate the Cubs retaining Juan Pierre who hurts the Cubs from a defensive standpoint because of his weak arm.

 

Pierre has 0 errors so far for the Cubs this year. For the 100th time, all Pierre needs to do is throw the ball to the cut-off man. Didnt Pierre win a world series with his bad arm in CF for the Marlins?

 

No, Pierre was part of a team that won the World Series. His bad arm really didn't help much.

 

The point is, you can win a world series with Pierre in CF.

 

Teams win World Series with weaknesses all the time. I'm pretty sure a team could win a World Series with Walker too. I'm going to laugh if for some strange occurances the Padres get hot and win the WS using Walker at third.

[RichHillIsABeast]

I dont know why some people miss Walker. The guy hurts your team on defense. Only thing he is good for, is a bat off the bench. Last time I checked, you win with pitching and defense.

 

Last time I checked, you win with offense too.

 

Pitching and defense, is more important than offense. If you dont have a solid pitching staff supported with a solid defense, your not going to win many baseball games.

 

Yet, you advocate the Cubs retaining Juan Pierre who hurts the Cubs from a defensive standpoint because of his weak arm.

 

Pierre has 0 errors so far for the Cubs this year. For the 100th time, all Pierre needs to do is throw the ball to the cut-off man. Didnt Pierre win a world series with his bad arm in CF for the Marlins?

 

No, Pierre was part of a team that won the World Series. His bad arm really didn't help much.

 

The point is, you can win a world series with Pierre in CF.

 

You could win a WS with no one in CF provided the rest of the team was good enough.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I dont know why some people miss Walker. The guy hurts your team on defense. Only thing he is good for, is a bat off the bench. Last time I checked, you win with pitching and defense.

 

Last time I checked, you win with offense too.

 

Pitching and defense, is more important than offense. If you dont have a solid pitching staff supported with a solid defense, your not going to win many baseball games.

 

Yet, you advocate the Cubs retaining Juan Pierre who hurts the Cubs from a defensive standpoint because of his weak arm.

 

Pierre has 0 errors so far for the Cubs this year. For the 100th time, all Pierre needs to do is throw the ball to the cut-off man. Didnt Pierre win a world series with his bad arm in CF for the Marlins?

 

No, Pierre was part of a team that won the World Series. His bad arm really didn't help much.

 

The point is, you can win a world series with Pierre in CF.

 

To get back to the original topic of the thread does that mean that you cannot win a World Series with Todd Walker at second(starting)? I know he hasn't won one, but a lot of good/solid players haven't.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I dont know why some people miss Walker. The guy hurts your team on defense. Only thing he is good for, is a bat off the bench. Last time I checked, you win with pitching and defense.

 

Last time I checked, you win with offense too.

 

Pitching and defense, is more important than offense. If you dont have a solid pitching staff supported with a solid defense, your not going to win many baseball games.

 

Tell that to the 2004 Boston Red Sox.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'll take Walker over Pierre any day of the week and twice on Sunday for his OBP and RBI's alone. Pierre has neither of those things to make up for his anemic defense and OBP.

[baseball7897]

I'll take Walker over Pierre any day of the week and twice on Sunday for his OBP and RBI's alone. Pierre has neither of those things to make up for his anemic defense and OBP.

 

His defense is not that bad. Unless, your talking about his arm?

 

Again, 0 errors in CF this year.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'll take Walker over Pierre any day of the week and twice on Sunday for his OBP and RBI's alone. Pierre has neither of those things to make up for his anemic defense and OBP.

 

His defense is not that bad. Unless, your talking about his arm?

 

Again, 0 errors in CF this year.

 

Of course I'm talking about his arm. People practically run at will against that thing. I'm sick of seeing piano-haulers score because Pierre throws like I did before I realized I was terrible at throwing it in from the outfield.

 

And I was 13 then.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'll take Walker over Pierre any day of the week and twice on Sunday for his OBP and RBI's alone. Pierre has neither of those things to make up for his anemic defense and OBP.

 

His defense is not that bad. Unless, your talking about his arm?

 

Again, 0 errors in CF this year.

 

Just because he has 0 errors doesn't mean he's great defensively. He has a poor arm and gets bad reads/poor jumps on fly balls, which means he doesn't get to as many flyballs as he should given his speed.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I'll take Walker over Pierre any day of the week and twice on Sunday for his OBP and RBI's alone. Pierre has neither of those things to make up for his anemic defense and OBP.

 

His defense is not that bad. Unless, your talking about his arm?

 

Again, 0 errors in CF this year.

 

Errors are not the best metric for judging fielding efficiency....especially for an outfielder.

 

How many extra bases does his arm give up?

[baseball7897]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He had a hot streak like any other player. His .345/.380/.496/.876 line in July was great, but he's not going to continue that, as evidenced by his return to mediocrity with a .299/.336/.411/.747 August line.

[Sammy Sofa]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He still comes up with guys on base and rarely ever drives them home.

[NCCubFan]

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made.

Or it means he's having a flukish hot streak, much like Neifi had at the start of the 2005 season.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He had a hot streak like any other player. His .345/.380/.496/.876 line in July was great, but he's not going to continue that, as evidenced by his return to mediocrity with a .299/.336/.411/.747 August line.

 

I think he stands a real good chance to keep putting up numbers like he has over the last 3 months.........

 

05/27 - 08/26      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Pierre            354   41  110   21   10    1  154   23   19   14  0.311  0.355  0.435  0.790

 

..... which, while not great numbers, are in keeping with his career numbers, and are a whole lot better than "an abysmal offensive player". By the way, TMT, I really do miss your AB by AB updates of Juan's OPS in the game threads. :wink:

[CUBZ99]

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made.

Or it means he's having a flukish hot streak, much like Neifi had at the start of the 2005 season.

 

Problem is that Neifi didn't have a career .300 avg and .350 OBP. Funny how everyone just assumes that Pierre is going to suck for the rest of his time in baseball. There is no reason Pierre can't return to his career avg. in OBP or BA. In Pierre's defense, he had a horrible start as a Cub.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made.

Or it means he's having a flukish hot streak, much like Neifi had at the start of the 2005 season.

 

Problem is that Neifi didn't have a career .300 avg and .350 OBP. Funny how everyone just assumes that Pierre is going to suck for the rest of his time in baseball. There is no reason Pierre can't return to his career avg. in OBP or BA. In Pierre's defense, he had a horrible start as a Cub.

 

But even with the horrible start, his current numbers are very similar to the numbers he posted last season. I think what you see with Pierre is pretty much what we're gonna get.

[Jon]

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made.

Or it means he's having a flukish hot streak, much like Neifi had at the start of the 2005 season.

 

Problem is that Neifi didn't have a career .300 avg and .350 OBP. Funny how everyone just assumes that Pierre is going to suck for the rest of his time in baseball. There is no reason Pierre can't return to his career avg. in OBP or BA. In Pierre's defense, he had a horrible start as a Cub.

This is going to be Pierre's 3rd horrible season in the past 5.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He had a hot streak like any other player. His .345/.380/.496/.876 line in July was great, but he's not going to continue that, as evidenced by his return to mediocrity with a .299/.336/.411/.747 August line.

 

I think he stands a real good chance to keep putting up numbers like he has over the last 3 months.........

 

05/27 - 08/26      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Pierre            354   41  110   21   10    1  154   23   19   14  0.311  0.355  0.435  0.790

 

..... which, while not great numbers, are in keeping with his career numbers, and are a whole lot better than "an abysmal offensive player". By the way, TMT, I really do miss your AB by AB updates of Juan's OPS in the game threads. :wink:

 

Again though, that's buoyed by his July. When you look at his numbers month by month, it's pretty apparent what the anomaly is, especially considering how poorly he did last year.

[Fred Hornkohl]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He had a hot streak like any other player. His .345/.380/.496/.876 line in July was great, but he's not going to continue that, as evidenced by his return to mediocrity with a .299/.336/.411/.747 August line.

 

I think he stands a real good chance to keep putting up numbers like he has over the last 3 months.........

 

05/27 - 08/26      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Pierre            354   41  110   21   10    1  154   23   19   14  0.311  0.355  0.435  0.790

 

..... which, while not great numbers, are in keeping with his career numbers, and are a whole lot better than "an abysmal offensive player". By the way, TMT, I really do miss your AB by AB updates of Juan's OPS in the game threads. :wink:

 

Again though, that's buoyed by his July. When you look at his numbers month by month, it's pretty apparent what the anomaly is, especially considering how poorly he did last year.

 

I purposefully DON'T look at month by month stats. Months are completely arbitrary and incorrigible. Players don't start and/or stop playing well by the turn of a page on a calendar. When you limit your time series analysis to month by month statistics, chances are you will end with a very distorted picture of what's going on.

[NCCubFan]

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made.

Or it means he's having a flukish hot streak, much like Neifi had at the start of the 2005 season.

 

Problem is that Neifi didn't have a career .300 avg and .350 OBP. Funny how everyone just assumes that Pierre is going to suck for the rest of his time in baseball. There is no reason Pierre can't return to his career avg. in OBP or BA. In Pierre's defense, he had a horrible start as a Cub.

I'm not assuming that he can't return to his career norm; I'm just saying that his current hot streak proves that he is. We simply don't know one way or the other.

[CUBZ99]

Pierre is good at catching the balls he gets to. Unfortunately, he gets poor jumps, takes bad routes, and I imagine has to intentionally throw the ball as poorly as he does. Using errors as a justification of his defense is a very flawed argument, just like the argument that Pierre is okay because he won a world series, and just like the argument that because Pierre has lead anything in hits from some arbitrary date that he's not an abysmal offensive player.

 

The fact that he is leading the league in hits since June 24th means he has made the adjustments that were needed to be made. He is getting on base more, and is making things happen at the top of the order.

 

He had a hot streak like any other player. His .345/.380/.496/.876 line in July was great, but he's not going to continue that, as evidenced by his return to mediocrity with a .299/.336/.411/.747 August line.

 

I think he stands a real good chance to keep putting up numbers like he has over the last 3 months.........

 

05/27 - 08/26      AB    R    H   2B   3B   HR   TB  RBI   BB   SO     BA    OBP    SLG    OPS
Pierre            354   41  110   21   10    1  154   23   19   14  0.311  0.355  0.435  0.790

 

..... which, while not great numbers, are in keeping with his career numbers, and are a whole lot better than "an abysmal offensive player". By the way, TMT, I really do miss your AB by AB updates of Juan's OPS in the game threads. :wink:

 

Again though, that's buoyed by his July. When you look at his numbers month by month, it's pretty apparent what the anomaly is, especially considering how poorly he did last year.

 

Pierre had two horrible months, followed by three solid months of play. It is possible that he had a period of adjustment playing for a different team.

 

You could acknowledge that other factors that can't be seen in the stat sheet could actually have an effect on a baseball player's performance or you can completely ignore that baseball players are human beings and look completely at his overall stats.

 

Either way, three months of

 

.350 OBP

.380 OBP

.336 OBP

 

are pretty darn good for a leadoff hitter.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

.336 OBP is not pretty darn good for a leadoff hitter.