Juan Pierre OR Felix Pie

[Balsa]

This is what I expect Hendry to do this offseason:

 

*Offer Pierre a two-year deal worth about $8.5 a year.

 

*Go after Soriano to play 2nd Base

 

*Claim Carlos Lee is overpriced (which he will be)

 

*Leave Murton in LF, and Jones in RF

 

*Sign some pitchers or something

 

*Probably trade Cedeno and keep Izturis

[RyCubsFan]

Ugh...why waste nearly 20 million dollars (approx 10 mil / 2 yrs) on Pierre when Pie is arguably ready??

[Lefty]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

Only if we offer him arbitration. Risky business if you don't want him.

 

Not to hide from offering an opinion, that's what I'd do, because at worst you're stuck with one-year. If he stays "hot" he won't consider it.

[NewUserName]

So we have a choice between a player who we know is below average major league CFer Juan Pierre. Who happens to have a couple of ok #s(SB, BA) which are offset by not very good #s(CS, OBP). He is a poor CFer with a lousy arm. However he has probably through hard work gotten about as much out of his talent as he is going to get. Also will be overpaid which is pretty much guaranteed. Basically a very likeable player who really isnt very good like a very long list of former Cub players.

 

OR

 

Felix Pie who is 21, putting up very solid #s in his first year of AAA ball. Without doubt is POTENTIALLY a better player than Pierre. Actually probably already is. Are main concerns are we are rushing him to the major leagues if we bring him up next year. There however is no evidence that rushing a player to the major leagues has ever had an adverse effect on his long-term ability. Also no matter what the Cubs do next season they are not going to win the World Series so letting a young player earn his stripes and struggle in a year that we could be using for the future would make the most sense. As opposed to wait 2 years and through other building may have a World Series contender than having to work through rookie struggles.

 

For some reason I dont understand keeping Pierre even if it is for 1 year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I've thought about this a little bit, and this seems to be a good spot for it. If we go with Pie next year, should we find a platoon partner for him? A quick scan of Cot's FA list doesn't give much hope for RH CFers, and then there's still Jones and Murton who we may want to platoon as well. Maybe someone in Rule 5 would fit the bill? Pagan has been horrible against LHP this year, and there's some question to whether he can handle CF, so I don't think he'd work.

[Lefty]

PIERRE.

 

Pie has NO major league experience. Untill he gets some AB's in the big leagues, then you can judge him.

So...

 

Nobody should ever play a rookie because they don't have any major league AB's. And they can't get any major league AB's because nobody should ever play them.

 

 

Got it.

 

When did I say that no team should play a rookie?

 

It would be easier to judge Pie with some at-bats in the big leagues. Big leagues compared to AAA, well, there is no comparison.

 

You can compare stats if you adjust for context. Do you really think Pie could hit .160 if he played a full season? We can say with almost 90% certainty that Pie would hit at least .230 next year with the Cubs, 70% .250 etc. It is all about playing the odds, staying within budget, valuing the right things...

[questionmarkgrace]

I'll take Pie for his arm and the fact that he is cheap. i also like the idea of more pop in the outfield. 40 hrs 130 rbi are numbers I would like to see out of a single cubs player not out of three combined. So if we can bring up Pie and sign a Schmidt or Zito and possible make a secondary trade I am all for it.

[CuseCubFan69]

This is Pierre's prime time to get some big bucks and IMO no way is he going to settle for anything less then a 3 year deal.

[JC]

Door 3: Carlos Beltran

 

Of course, Beltran isn't available, and likely won't be until he is in decline. Its amazing how little Hendry was interested in this guy a couple of years ago.

 

I don't want anything more to do with Pierre. Even if he is fast, that doesn't make up for his woeful showing with respect to power and his laughable arm. Take a chance with Pie and hold on to Pagan in case Pie is atrocious. Pierre isn't worth the money.

[MPrior]

I heartily endorse the idea of offering Pierre arbitration, but no more. If he accepts and sticks around for another year, it's okay, because he does have some value (albeit little), and Pie could probably use a little more time to develop.

 

If he declines, it's great, because we get draft picks, don't have to pay him anything, and we have a near-ML ready potential star in CF waiting in the wings. We can maybe pick up someone on the cheap for the first half of the season.

[baseball7897]

Door 3: Carlos Beltran

 

Of course, Beltran isn't available, and likely won't be until he is in decline. Its amazing how little Hendry was interested in this guy a couple of years ago.

 

I don't want anything more to do with Pierre. Even if he is fast, that doesn't make up for his woeful showing with respect to power and his laughable arm. Take a chance with Pie and hold on to Pagan in case Pie is atrocious. Pierre isn't worth the money.

 

Hendry made an offer to Beltran. Like another poster said, there was no way the Cubs would of out-bid the Mets, or the Yankees for Beltran.

 

So, because of Pierre's arm, you wont re-sign him? All he need's to do is throw the ball to the cut-off man.

[MPrior]

So, because of Pierre's arm, you wont re-sign him? All he need's to do is throw the ball to the cut-off man.

 

I think you must have misunderstood. He won't re-sign him because he's TERRIBLE.

[SoonerCubFan]

I heartily endorse the idea of offering Pierre arbitration, but no more. If he accepts and sticks around for another year, it's okay, because he does have some value (albeit little), and Pie could probably use a little more time to develop.

 

If he declines, it's great, because we get draft picks, don't have to pay him anything, and we have a near-ML ready potential star in CF waiting in the wings. We can maybe pick up someone on the cheap for the first half of the season.

 

Agree 100%. And, if Pie starts tearing up AAA in the first half and Pierre is still around, a summer trade can be a plus as well. No lose situation going the arby route.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Cubs are the most ignorant, moronic organization in baseball. Does anyone here HONESTLY expect them to do the intelligent thing and offer Pierre arbitration?

 

Of course not. Hendry has become as bad a GM as Himes. He'll sign Pierre to a grotesque contract because "he has the money", because Pierre "is a proven, veteran leadoff man", because "speed doesn't slump", blah blah blah.

 

I hate every dip that has even an ounce of sayso in this organization, it is so MADDENING!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NCCubFan]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

 

This is what I would do. Offer Pierre arbitration-we would like him to decline, but if he accepts, it wouldn't be that bad to have him play CF for another year. Do not sign him to a multi-year deal.

exactamundo! And make it clear up front in the negotiations that we're only interested in a one year deal since Pie will soon be ready.

I'd even make it clear to Pierre that Pie gets first crack at the starting CF job if he shows he's ready in Spring Training.

[soapy]

I'd go with Pie and it's not even close. I don't expect a great season from him or anything, but I think he'll be just as productive as Pierre (and I disagree with premis in the original post that Pierre is better at getting on base).

 

Make sure you have someone else on the roster (preferably RH) who can play center to spell Pie or take over adequately if Pie really bombs for some reason. I'm not against offering Pierre arbitration, only because I don't think he'd accept. Upgrade at 2B or SS (my personal preference at this point is Soriano or Loretta) and the offense can afford to have Pie hitting in the 7th spot. Of course, this also frees up additional money to use in free agency.

 

And for God sakes, please don't have Pie leadoff.

[RyCubsFan]

I'd go with Pie and it's not even close. I don't expect a great season from him or anything, but I think he'll be just as productive as Pierre (and I disagree with premis in the original post that Pierre is better at getting on base).

 

Make sure you have someone else on the roster (preferably RH) who can play center to spell Pie or take over adequately if Pie really bombs for some reason. I'm not against offering Pierre arbitration, only because I don't think he'd accept. Upgrade at 2B or SS (my personal preference at this point is Soriano or Loretta) and the offense can afford to have Pie hitting in the 7th spot. Of course, this also frees up additional money to use in free agency.

 

And for God sakes, please don't have Pie leadoff.

 

 

I'd take Pie too as I made clear. But I do think that for 2007, Pierre would probably put up a higher OBP than Pie (maybe 60/40 odds). After 2007, I'd expect Pie to exceed Pierre in OBP.

[Magnetic Curses]

edmonds or brady clark, plz. preferably both.

[radarluv1]

i didnt realize cubs could get 2 draft picks for pierre. i assumed he might be considered a class a player, due to decent BA and SBs, but 2 first round picks? doesnt make sense, but i'd be happy if that happens.

anybody know a good source to read on compensation for A,b,c free agents?

[WrigleyField 22]

i didnt realize cubs could get 2 draft picks for pierre. i assumed he might be considered a class a player, due to decent BA and SBs, but 2 first round picks? doesnt make sense, but i'd be happy if that happens.

anybody know a good source to read on compensation for A,b,c free agents?

 

If he is type A I believe they will recieve a first rounder (2nd rounder if its tp 15) and a supplemental. This could change if the signing team signs other type A FAs. I think this happen with Clement where we should have recieved 2nd(he was typeB) but the BoSox also signed a couple type A guys so thdraft compensation was pushed down and we got a 4th or 5th I believe.

[wade]

Keep in mind that if we let Pierre go, we also will get two additional draft picks.

 

So...the choice is Pie + two additional first round picks vs. Pierre.

 

 

Heck, I'd let Pagan play CF for however long is needed until Pie is ready rather than re-sign Pierre.

Sorry, let me amend this a bit...

 

 

the choice is:

 

Pie & Pagan + two additional first round picks + possibly $10M to spend elsewhere

 

vs.

 

Pierre

 

You had me at hello.