Matt Murton revisited

[Mark_R]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

[TB_11]

I'm in love with the idea of platooning Murton with Jacque and then Murt just takes over RF fulltime as soon as Jacque is gone. By then, hopefully, Pie's in CF and a big masher has been picked up for the long run in LF.

 

If you platoon Murton, he won't get the PAs against righties he needs to be a productive non-platoon player.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

[Mark_R]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

If he's playing CF and putting up a .375 OBP, what more do you want out of the guy? And if he's playing a corner of spot, his numbers this year aren't that far off from Brian Giles, who this board was creaming themselves over getting this past offseason.

 

Giles: .383/.385/.769 (9 million)

Murton: .357/.426/.782 (near league minimum)

 

:-k

[baseball7897]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

If he's playing CF and putting up a .375 OBP, what more do you want out of the guy? And if he's playing a corner of spot, his numbers this year aren't that far off from Brian Giles, who this board was creaming themselves over getting this past offseason.

 

Giles: .383/.385/.769 (9 million)

Murton: .357/.426/.782 (near league minimum)

 

:-k

 

Murton in CF? That would be real interesting.

[bhogg]

All indications point to Izturis being next year's SS.

 

That leaves you with a decision to make on Murton and Cedeno. You simply can't get by with both those guys in the lineup.

 

Now, looking at their production, only a doofus would take Cedeno over Murton. At this point, he's a hack at 2b and hits almost as bad as Neifi. Murton has done quite well under the circumstances. He actually looks like he has a clue up there at the plate.

 

My hope is that the Cubs send send Cedeno packing and get an offensive minded 2b.

 

I also think (right or wrong) they'll keep Pierre. If they could spin Jones somwhere and get a legit Power Hitter for RF, Murton would be able to flourish in LF and hopefully hit 2nd.

 

If not, the idea of him platooning with Jones (and signing a power hitting LFer) until Jones is gone might be the best option.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

If he's playing CF and putting up a .375 OBP, what more do you want out of the guy? And if he's playing a corner of spot, his numbers this year aren't that far off from Brian Giles, who this board was creaming themselves over getting this past offseason.

 

Giles: .383/.385/.769 (9 million)

Murton: .357/.426/.782 (near league minimum)

 

:-k

 

You didn't say anything about him being in CF. Yes his production would be fine for a CF, but his defense would likely be subpar, and given the chance to get cheap production from Pie with good defense there as well as more upside, that's who I'd prefer, although I wouldn't be upset with Murton in CF(with the caveat that neither LF and RF were complete butchers).

 

And no one was going crazy over Giles because of a .769 OPS. People(me among them) thought his power would be much better away from Petco. His OBP has also dipped with a lower average as well.

[mg420]

I think if Jones were moved to CF and a power bat were brought in for RF, we could live with Murton's SLG% in left.

 

with baker gone next year and murton playing every day, i dont see why his slugging % wouldnt go up significantly from this year. he can easily be a .300+ 25 hr guy in 2007 imo.

 

Because he's not that good.

 

I didn't realize players peaked at 25.

 

I see no reason that he can't improve, especially if Dusty's free swinging mentality leaves the clubhouse.

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

ever hear of a player called ryne sandberg? murton's a big guy with a quick bat and looking at some of the bomb's he's hit this year there is not reason to believe that he can't hit 25+ a year if he gets 500+ ab's.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

ever hear of a player called ryne sandberg? murton's a big guy with a quick bat and looking at some of the bomb's he's hit this year there is not reason to believe that he can't hit 25+ a year if he gets 500+ ab's.

 

Sandberg was 3+ years younger when he broke into the majors. There's much more precedent for improvement upon past numbers when the player was young for his minor league levels(like Sandberg was).

[mg420]

All indications point to Izturis being next year's SS.

 

That leaves you with a decision to make on Murton and Cedeno. You simply can't get by with both those guys in the lineup.

 

Now, looking at their production, only a doofus would take Cedeno over Murton. At this point, he's a hack at 2b and hits almost as bad as Neifi. Murton has done quite well under the circumstances. He actually looks like he has a clue up there at the plate.

 

My hope is that the Cubs send send Cedeno packing and get an offensive minded 2b.

 

I also think (right or wrong) they'll keep Pierre. If they could spin Jones somwhere and get a legit Power Hitter for RF, Murton would be able to flourish in LF and hopefully hit 2nd.

 

If not, the idea of him platooning with Jones (and signing a power hitting LFer) until Jones is gone might be the best option.

 

what kind of production are oakland & the cardinals getting from lf, ss & 2b?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

All indications point to Izturis being next year's SS.

 

That leaves you with a decision to make on Murton and Cedeno. You simply can't get by with both those guys in the lineup.

 

Now, looking at their production, only a doofus would take Cedeno over Murton. At this point, he's a hack at 2b and hits almost as bad as Neifi. Murton has done quite well under the circumstances. He actually looks like he has a clue up there at the plate.

 

My hope is that the Cubs send send Cedeno packing and get an offensive minded 2b.

 

I also think (right or wrong) they'll keep Pierre. If they could spin Jones somwhere and get a legit Power Hitter for RF, Murton would be able to flourish in LF and hopefully hit 2nd.

 

If not, the idea of him platooning with Jones (and signing a power hitting LFer) until Jones is gone might be the best option.

 

what kind of production are oakland & the cardinals getting from lf, ss & 2b?

 

Oakland is 25th in runs scored, St. Louis is 17th(7th in the NL). We don't have anyone as good as Pujols or Rolen have been this year.

[mg420]

ever hear of a player called ryne sandberg? murton's a big guy with a quick bat and looking at some of the bomb's he's hit this year there is not reason to believe that he can't hit 25+ a year if he gets 500+ ab's.

 

Sandberg was 3+ years younger when he broke into the majors. There's much more precedent for improvement upon past numbers when the player was young for his minor league levels(like Sandberg was).

 

but he didnt start hitting for power right away either. there was nothing in hi past to make you think he could hit 40 bombs in the majors either but he managed to do it (a a thin 180 lbs too-compared to murtons 215).

[mg420]

All indications point to Izturis being next year's SS.

 

That leaves you with a decision to make on Murton and Cedeno. You simply can't get by with both those guys in the lineup.

 

Now, looking at their production, only a doofus would take Cedeno over Murton. At this point, he's a hack at 2b and hits almost as bad as Neifi. Murton has done quite well under the circumstances. He actually looks like he has a clue up there at the plate.

 

My hope is that the Cubs send send Cedeno packing and get an offensive minded 2b.

 

I also think (right or wrong) they'll keep Pierre. If they could spin Jones somwhere and get a legit Power Hitter for RF, Murton would be able to flourish in LF and hopefully hit 2nd.

 

If not, the idea of him platooning with Jones (and signing a power hitting LFer) until Jones is gone might be the best option.

 

what kind of production are oakland & the cardinals getting from lf, ss & 2b?

 

Oakland is 25th in runs scored, St. Louis is 17th(7th in the NL). We don't have anyone as good as Pujols or Rolen have been this year.

 

lee & aram???

[Transmogrified Tiger]

All indications point to Izturis being next year's SS.

 

That leaves you with a decision to make on Murton and Cedeno. You simply can't get by with both those guys in the lineup.

 

Now, looking at their production, only a doofus would take Cedeno over Murton. At this point, he's a hack at 2b and hits almost as bad as Neifi. Murton has done quite well under the circumstances. He actually looks like he has a clue up there at the plate.

 

My hope is that the Cubs send send Cedeno packing and get an offensive minded 2b.

 

I also think (right or wrong) they'll keep Pierre. If they could spin Jones somwhere and get a legit Power Hitter for RF, Murton would be able to flourish in LF and hopefully hit 2nd.

 

If not, the idea of him platooning with Jones (and signing a power hitting LFer) until Jones is gone might be the best option.

 

what kind of production are oakland & the cardinals getting from lf, ss & 2b?

 

Oakland is 25th in runs scored, St. Louis is 17th(7th in the NL). We don't have anyone as good as Pujols or Rolen have been this year.

 

lee & aram???

 

One of them might be able to reach Rolen's production, but there's quite a difference between them. And again, StL is a middling offense this year.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

ever hear of a player called ryne sandberg? murton's a big guy with a quick bat and looking at some of the bomb's he's hit this year there is not reason to believe that he can't hit 25+ a year if he gets 500+ ab's.

 

Sandberg was 3+ years younger when he broke into the majors. There's much more precedent for improvement upon past numbers when the player was young for his minor league levels(like Sandberg was).

 

but he didnt start hitting for power right away either. there was nothing in hi past to make you think he could hit 40 bombs in the majors either but he managed to do it (a a thin 180 lbs too-compared to murtons 215).

 

Like I just said, there's much more precedent for that sort of thing when the player is real young for his levels, like Sandberg. The same doesn't apply to Murton, almost the opposite(being old for his levels).

[bhogg]

Sandberg was destined to be a speed player until a coach took the time to work with him. Couple that with a great work ethic, and a hall of famer was born.

 

I don't think the Cub coaches know Murton's first name, let alone be willing to get one on one with the guy and work with him. I have no proof of this, of course. However, Baker's "he's got to be more aggressive" comment leads me to believe Murton isn't really on their radar.

[bhogg]

I'd also like to say that I'm not riding Murton's jock or anything. I think he's a good young ballplayer and based on what I've seen, he probably deserves a chance to play a full year.

 

However, if the Cubs can swing a deal to get a top tier slugger to replace him, they'd be crazy not to do so.

 

It'd be great to keep him and get rid of Jones, but that's highly unlikely (if they are to get a super stud OFer).

[Warpticon]

My subjective, unprofessional analysis of his game is that his swing, his approach, his contact rate, and his physical makeup give him a good chance of being a pretty steady .290/.360ish hitter. Right now, he is extremely similar to a less defensively gifted Mark Kotsay. I think he'll hit for more power down the line and slug from .445-.475, with maybe a crazy peak year somewhere, through his prime, if he's given the chance to get regular, full-season PT. Even in a disappointing year as far as slugging is concerned, he's still at a pace to hit 14-16 homers in 550 at-bats, which, while not impressive, isn't horrible, and shows signs of improvement. Worst case, his splits keep him from playing everyday and he becomes a very good bench bat in the Mark Sweeney mold.

 

I'd really hate to give up on Murton for someone who is not potentially spectacular.

[jjgman21]

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

 

in 2002 at GT, Murton slugged .536. in 2004, before being traded to the Cubs, his SLG was .452. he faded once with the Cubs, but that slg would currently rank him tied for 14th in that league. in 2005, he slugged .498 in an extremely pitcher friendly league. if he finished the season in AA in 05 and kept that slg %, it would rank him 10th in the league. instead, he followed it up with a .500 slg % at AAA and a .521 slg % in the majors.

 

there's very little in his past that suggests he won't hit for more power than he is this year. someone brought up Giles. I was just looking at his stats in a different context. look what he slugged when he was 24. look at Edmonds. there are plenty of players that take a year or two of ML ABs to develop their power. Bonds slugged .426 at age 24. Adam LaRoche slugged .455 last year at age 24, right around where Murton will probably end up this year. think the Braves are glad they didn't platoon him and his .555 slg % at age 25 this year?

 

people are just way to damn spoiled these days with the Cabrerras and Guerreros and Pujols and Bays and Wrights and Howards. those players are the exception, not the rule. players don't just waltz into the league and mash 30 HRs in their first year. they need to develop and Murton is right at the age that many players historically have developed their power. let the guy have the position, give him some good coaching instead of combatting his skill set, and he will be just fine.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

 

in 2002 at GT, Murton slugged .536. in 2004, before being traded to the Cubs, his SLG was .452. he faded once with the Cubs, but that slg would currently rank him tied for 14th in that league. in 2005, he slugged .498 in an extremely pitcher friendly league. if he finished the season in AA in 05 and kept that slg %, it would rank him 10th in the league. instead, he followed it up with a .500 slg % at AAA and a .521 slg % in the majors.

 

there's very little in his past that suggests he won't hit for more power than he is this year. someone brought up Giles. I was just looking at his stats in a different context. look what he slugged when he was 24. look at Edmonds. there are plenty of players that take a year or two of ML ABs to develop their power. Bonds slugged .426 at age 24. Adam LaRoche slugged .455 last year at age 24, right around where Murton will probably end up this year. think the Braves are glad they didn't platoon him and his .555 slg % at age 25 this year.

 

You've got to look at IsoP. His year at Georgia Tech was under .200, not very good at all for a top college player. That .452 SLG was accompanied by a .301 AVG for a .151 IsoP. He did have a better run in his first major league stint, but his performance before and since then have proved that to be an anomaly.

 

It goes back to the point that Minor League numbers in the right context are very good predictors of major league performance. It's not an absolute, but exceptions like Edmonds don't make it any more likely that Murton adds power.

[jjgman21]

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

 

in 2002 at GT, Murton slugged .536. in 2004, before being traded to the Cubs, his SLG was .452. he faded once with the Cubs, but that slg would currently rank him tied for 14th in that league. in 2005, he slugged .498 in an extremely pitcher friendly league. if he finished the season in AA in 05 and kept that slg %, it would rank him 10th in the league. instead, he followed it up with a .500 slg % at AAA and a .521 slg % in the majors.

 

there's very little in his past that suggests he won't hit for more power than he is this year. someone brought up Giles. I was just looking at his stats in a different context. look what he slugged when he was 24. look at Edmonds. there are plenty of players that take a year or two of ML ABs to develop their power. Bonds slugged .426 at age 24. Adam LaRoche slugged .455 last year at age 24, right around where Murton will probably end up this year. think the Braves are glad they didn't platoon him and his .555 slg % at age 25 this year.

 

You've got to look at IsoP. His year at Georgia Tech was under .200, not very good at all for a top college player. That .452 SLG was accompanied by a .301 AVG for a .151 IsoP. He did have a better run in his first major league stint, but his performance before and since then have proved that to be an anomaly.

 

It goes back to the point that Minor League numbers in the right context are very good predictors of major league performance. It's not an absolute, but exceptions like Edmonds don't make it any more likely that Murton adds power.

 

why do you call players like Edmonds the exception? seriously, how many players do you think hit 20 HRs at age 24 in the major leagues? 4? maybe 5? I understand the concept of predictability, but I think this is a case of looking too much at the stats and not enough attention to the obvious observations.

 

Murton has the make up (strength, strike zone judgment, patience, etc.) of a guy that can hit for power. some decent coaching and a few adjustments to make him stop pounding the ball into the ground, and he'll hit for power. his IsoP isn't so low because he's slapped singles over the secondbaseman's head. more likely it was because his hits were line shots through the infield instead of line drives off the wall or in the gaps.

 

if he doesn't hit for more power, the Cubs should have three positions in the top three or four offensively in the NL (as pathetic as the NL is, four if they found a different platoon partner for Jones besides Murton), and you can get by with Murton's OBP for another season and see if that power develops.

 

with the potential for an Izturis/Cedeno middle infield, the point I am about to make is not so obvious as it was three weeks ago, but I really don't understand the mentality that says you have to have a power bat in leftfield because that is 'traditionally' what has been done, especially when you have a .900 OPS catcher.

 

give either Cedeno or Izturis the SS position, get a .360 OBP for second and center, get a righthanded platoon partner for Jones in right.

 

.360 (CF/2B)

Murton

Lee

Aram

Jones/platoon partner

Barrett

.360 (2B/CF)

Cedeno

 

if Murton's power comes around, swith him with whoever bats seventh and let him drive in some runs. cheap, easy, done.

 

(caveat - I realize this team is heavily dependant on Lee returning to form and Aram coming back, but if both those things don't happen, nothing will matter anyway.)

[CubinNY]

 

There's very little in his past that suggests he's going to hit for any more power than he is now. Maybe he'll be able to maintain it without as heavy a platoon distribution, but it's not often college draftees start hitting for more power at the MLB level after not displaying it anywhere before.

 

 

in 2002 at GT, Murton slugged .536. in 2004, before being traded to the Cubs, his SLG was .452. he faded once with the Cubs, but that slg would currently rank him tied for 14th in that league. in 2005, he slugged .498 in an extremely pitcher friendly league. if he finished the season in AA in 05 and kept that slg %, it would rank him 10th in the league. instead, he followed it up with a .500 slg % at AAA and a .521 slg % in the majors.

 

there's very little in his past that suggests he won't hit for more power than he is this year. someone brought up Giles. I was just looking at his stats in a different context. look what he slugged when he was 24. look at Edmonds. there are plenty of players that take a year or two of ML ABs to develop their power. Bonds slugged .426 at age 24. Adam LaRoche slugged .455 last year at age 24, right around where Murton will probably end up this year. think the Braves are glad they didn't platoon him and his .555 slg % at age 25 this year.

 

You've got to look at IsoP. His year at Georgia Tech was under .200, not very good at all for a top college player. That .452 SLG was accompanied by a .301 AVG for a .151 IsoP. He did have a better run in his first major league stint, but his performance before and since then have proved that to be an anomaly.

 

It goes back to the point that Minor League numbers in the right context are very good predictors of major league performance. It's not an absolute, but exceptions like Edmonds don't make it any more likely that Murton adds power.

 

why do you call players like Edmonds the exception? seriously, how many players do you think hit 20 HRs at age 24 in the major leagues? 4? maybe 5? I understand the concept of predictability, but I think this is a case of looking too much at the stats and not enough attention to the obvious observations.

 

Murton has the make up (strength, strike zone judgment, patience, etc.) of a guy that can hit for power. some decent coaching and a few adjustments to make him stop pounding the ball into the ground, and he'll hit for power. his IsoP isn't so low because he's slapped singles over the secondbaseman's head. more likely it was because his hits were line shots through the infield instead of line drives off the wall or in the gaps.

 

if he doesn't hit for more power, the Cubs should have three positions in the top three or four offensively in the NL (as pathetic as the NL is, four if they found a different platoon partner for Jones besides Murton), and you can get by with Murton's OBP for another season and see if that power develops.

 

with the potential for an Izturis/Cedeno middle infield, the point I am about to make is not so obvious as it was three weeks ago, but I really don't understand the mentality that says you have to have a power bat in leftfield because that is 'traditionally' what has been done, especially when you have a .900 OPS catcher.

 

give either Cedeno or Izturis the SS position, get a .360 OBP for second and center, get a righthanded platoon partner for Jones in right.

 

.360 (CF/2B)

Murton

Lee

Aram

Jones/platoon partner

Barrett

.360 (2B/CF)

Cedeno

 

if Murton's power comes around, swith him with whoever bats seventh and let him drive in some runs. cheap, easy, done.

 

(caveat - I realize this team is heavily dependant on Lee returning to form and Aram coming back, but if both those things don't happen, nothing will matter anyway.)

 

I agree completely. As the steriod era falls by the wayside, guys like Muton will become more valuable. 15-20 HRs 300ish average and 380is OBP will look very good.

[Brian]

Sign Soriano to play 2B and hit 6th, Murton leads off from left. Trade Cedeno if there is a market or he can back up the MIF.

 

Murton

Izturis (I know he's not ideal here but I think it'll do)

Lee

Aram

Barret

Soriano

Jacque

Pie

 

 

sign Schmidt, pack Prior in bubble wrap and hope for the best.

[muntjack]

Murton is slugging near .500 at Wrigley this season in a good number of ABs.

 

His approach at the plate is fantastic, and he has hit for power in spurts which tells me it's not likely a "flukey" thing.

 

He slugged .521 in 140 ABs last year and .723 so far this month.

[Tracer Bullet]

Sign Soriano to play 2B and hit 6th, Murton leads off from left. Trade Cedeno if there is a market or he can back up the MIF.

 

Murton

Izturis (I know he's not ideal here but I think it'll do)

Lee

Aram

Barret

Soriano

Jacque

Pie

 

 

sign Schmidt, pack Prior in bubble wrap and hope for the best.

 

Izturis has a .302 OBP for each of the last 3 years. Why would we want to bat him 2nd? He's not only not ideal, he's terrible for the 2nd spot. I'd probably put Barrett there, since he get on-base at a good clip. And you might as well put Soriano 5th to drive in runs. Doesn't matter if he gets on base since the guys behind him suck anyway.

 

Bat Izturis 8th. And hope he's injured again next year and Cedeno can go back to SS.