The Soccer Thread

[wvcbxl]

No decision yet on the Gold Cup qualifying for the next time round?

Odd, UEFA has already drawn the groups for the next EC (in 2012 in Poland and Ukraine) and all qualifiers have been scheduled (starts in 08/11 this year and ends on 10/11 next year; is followed by a play-off round)

[Jon]

The groups and schedules for the 2007 Gold Cup weren't announced until March of 2007.

 

The US, Mexico, and Canada qualify automatically, so nothing will happen regarding the Gold Cup for the US for quite a while.

 

Speaking of the Gold Cup, I'll just have to pray they decide to hold the championship game in Chicago again. The 2007 Gold Cup win over Mexico for the championship is was hooked me for life.

[wvcbxl]

Argentina's Angel De Maria has signed a six year deal with Real Madrid (coming over from Benfica)

[USSoccer]

What does the national team's schedule look like over say, the next two years? And how does that conflict with club team seasons? When does qualifying for the next world cup begin?

 

Someone like Wolf can answer this much more completely and accurately, but the next real competition will be the Gold Cup, with friendlies interspersed before WC qualifying begins in (I think) late 2011 or 2012. As for club conflicts, there are typically scheduled dates where everyone is playing international competition so there aren't scheduled club dates. The Gold Cup is in the summer during the club off-season. If they win that, they win a spot in the Confederations Cup, which is Summer 2013 I believe.

 

2010 qualifying for CONCACAF started in February 2008 but the US had a bye in the first round and didn't start until June 2008. I assume the 2014 qualifying will be similar.

 

CONCACAF is actually changing our qualifying format and getting rid of the Hex. I'll dig up the details later, but the gist of it is that we have to waste some more time playing Caribbean nations and there's a larger chance of a fluke knockout that before (i think).

[brinoch]

What does the national team's schedule look like over say, the next two years? And how does that conflict with club team seasons? When does qualifying for the next world cup begin?

 

Someone like Wolf can answer this much more completely and accurately, but the next real competition will be the Gold Cup, with friendlies interspersed before WC qualifying begins in (I think) late 2011 or 2012. As for club conflicts, there are typically scheduled dates where everyone is playing international competition so there aren't scheduled club dates. The Gold Cup is in the summer during the club off-season. If they win that, they win a spot in the Confederations Cup, which is Summer 2013 I believe.

 

2010 qualifying for CONCACAF started in February 2008 but the US had a bye in the first round and didn't start until June 2008. I assume the 2014 qualifying will be similar.

 

CONCACAF is actually changing our qualifying format and getting rid of the Hex. I'll dig up the details later, but the gist of it is that we have to waste some more time playing Caribbean nations and there's a larger chance of a fluke knockout that before (i think).

 

It's a little unclear, actually. It depends on how many spots we get. If we had 4 spots, it'd be much easier to come up with something interesting. Now, they are talking about some knockout rounds, followed by a 12 team round robin, followed by a hex or octagonal. Ugh. Simpler please. Give USA, Mexico, Honduras and Costa Rica (as the top 4 finishers) byes to the Semi-finals and seed them 1-4. Have 4 groups in semis... top 2 finishers advance to an Octagonal. It should give us something like US, Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Canada, TT, Panama and Jamaica (El Salvador, Cuba, and Guatemala contending, too). Or, even better, bye the US and Mexico to the CONCACAF Final.

[USSoccer]

This was Voros' top 22 forward prospects for 2014:

 

1. Jozy Altidore, 25, Villareal

2. Charlie Davies, 28, FC Sochaux

3. Robbie Findley, 29, Real Salt Lake

4. Eddie Johnson, 30, Fulham

5. Brek Shea, 24, FC Dallas

6. Herculez Gomez, 32, Pachuca

7. Chris Rolfe, 31, Aalborg

8. Edson Buddle, 33, Los Angeles Galaxy

9. Tristan Bowen, 23, Los Angeles Galaxy

10. Justin Braun, 27, Chivas USA

11. Kenny Cooper, 30, 1860 Munich

12. Chris Pontius, 27, DC United

13. Conor Casey, 33, Colorado Rapids

14. Jesus Padilla, 27, Chivas USA

15. Marcus Tracy, 28, Aalborg

16. Jack McInerney, 22, Philadelphia Union

17. Mike Grella, 27, Leeds United

18. Tony Taylor, 25, GD Estoril Praia

19. Fabrice Picault, 23, Cagliari Calcio

20. Francisco Navas Cobo, 23, Hosuton Dynamo

21. Kellen Gulley, 20, Mississippi Chicago Fire Juniors

22. Peri Marosevic, 25, FC Dallas

 

Holy god that list is awful and full of bad and hurty things. Clint and Landon might end up playing striker in 2014.

[brinoch]

This was Voros' top 2 forward prospects for 2014:

 

1. Jozy Altidore, 25, Villareal

2. Charlie Davies, 28, FC Sochaux

 

FYP.

[brinoch]

Totally unrelated to anything... but BS is full of awful, awful posters. Is there a place to discuss soccer with intelligent people?

[USSoccer]

Totally unrelated to anything... but BS is full of awful, awful posters. Is there a place to discuss soccer with intelligent people?

 

Not really. Between Wolf, Jax and you I think our threads are generally better than their USMNT N&A section (which is allegedly heavily moderated).

 

There are some really great posters there (the guy who does the translations from Gazzetta DelloSport or whatever in Italy comes to mind), but the level of knee-jerk reactionary guys over there makes some of our posters here in the game threads seem like Mensa members.

[brinoch]

Totally unrelated to anything... but BS is full of awful, awful posters. Is there a place to discuss soccer with intelligent people?

 

Not really. Between Wolf, Jax and you I think our threads are generally better than their USMNT N&A section (which is allegedly heavily moderated).

 

There are some really great posters there (the guy who does the translations from Gazzetta DelloSport or whatever in Italy comes to mind), but the level of knee-jerk reactionary guys over there makes some of our posters here in the game threads seem like Mensa members.

 

That guy is really great. Voros, too. But, man, trying to find a cogent thought that isn't blinded by hatred of some player or another is pretty challenging. Player X has a bad day, bring on the next guy!! When Landon was man-marked out of the Algeria game -- obviously so if you, you know, WATCHED the game (for the love of God they started TWO left backs on that side) -- and Dempsey and Bradley step up big, there was basically no observation that the US midfield played what was given it and exploited the space extremely well. But for a bad offside call and our horrible finishing, that game wasn't even close. Algeria had like 3 chances.

 

And Ghana... I've seen a ton of criticism of Clark, Bradley for starting him and a ton from idiots about Howard being off his line... blah blah blah (guys who never played keeper and know nothing about it), he was poorly positioned on the goal, but little condemnation of Findley for his horrible take. That should have been a goal. Has to be a goal. You just can't miss that shot -- it's not even that freaking tough. Howard should have made the save, but give credit where credit it due -- it was a great shot. I hate when people can't acknowledge that they other side played well. And they did. Ghana played a great game.

 

In all seriousness, Michael Bradley is a stud. And the guys over there who can't/don't/won't recognize that are utterly blind. He's going to crack the ceiling and start for a top team soon.

[USSoccer]

 

And Ghana... I've seen a ton of criticism of Clark, Bradley for starting him and a ton from idiots about Howard being off his line... blah blah blah (guys who never played keeper and know nothing about it), he was poorly positioned on the goal, but little condemnation of Findley for his horrible take. That should have been a goal. Has to be a goal. You just can't miss that shot -- it's not even that freaking tough. Howard should have made the save, but give credit where credit it due -- it was a great shot. I hate when people can't acknowledge that they other side played well. And they did. Ghana played a great game.

 

My quibble with Howard is that Demerit had shut down nearly the entire angle for the far post shot. Tim, being a top keeper, should have slid over. If Prince-Boateng strikes it in that narrow space at the far post, tip your cap. Great shot. But he left a gaping hole at the near post and the shot wasn't even all that pacy. There was just so much space.

 

Findley...that was a terrible scuff. He lost his footing, or didn't hit it in stride at all, but it was just such a poor effort following a perfectly weighted pass.

 

A better striker curls it in with his left, mirroring Davies' finish in Azteca. Or just blasts it into the upper near corner. Instead, he put it low with average power, and made the Ghanian keeper's job pretty simple.

[brinoch]

My quibble with Howard is that Demerit had shut down nearly the entire angle for the far post shot. Tim, being a top keeper, should have slid over. If Prince-Boateng strikes it in that narrow space at the far post, tip your cap. Great shot. But he left a gaping hole at the near post and the shot wasn't even all that pacy. There was just so much space.

 

Findley...that was a terrible scuff. He lost his footing, or didn't hit it in stride at all, but it was just such a poor effort following a perfectly weighted pass.

 

A better striker curls it in with his left, mirroring Davies' finish in Azteca. Or just blasts it into the upper near corner. Instead, he put it low with average power, and made the Ghanian keeper's job pretty simple.

 

Howard was covering too much of the far post. Exactly so. He was a bit out of position, and I thought he reacted slowly (in slo-mo review, he's cheating to cover the far post). I have no problem criticizing Howard for that -- it's all the off his line garbage that irritates me. Go learn about angles and how to block shots.

 

Altidore needed some help. I think he was just beat all to hell after that Algeria game. I really wish we'd have tried Holden out a bit more, or perhaps Feilhaber full time... I don't know. Despite our seeming inability to make it work, the Ghana game cried out for a 4-5-1 (actually a 4-2-3-1). Put Holden out on the wing, where Ghana prepared for Donovan, and move Landon to the left and to float inside and swap with Dempsey as needed. It would have moved our guys in the center of the field to a 3-3 parity at least, and probably a 4-3 central advantage with the strong side. The off wing can make the diagonal channel runs to open space for Jozy. I don't know, it seemed pretty clear to me.

 

Edu cheats back as more of a destroyer while Bradley makes his late runs, and with Bornstein and Dolo overlapping to pressure their fullbacks, we can defend the counter since we would still have four players in position to cover defensively -- and always 3 in the middle with Edu there. It takes some work and communication, but it's not particularly tough stuff. The center back on the overlapping side takes the outside while Edu slots into the middle.

 

-----------------Jozy----------------

Donovan----Dempsey------Holden

----------Edu--------Bradley--------

Bornstein--Boca---DeMerit---Dolo

---------------Howard---------------

 

Whatever. It's done. We lost.

[Mark Priors Calves]

Jeez. That list of forwards is old. Is there any hope for any current 17/18/19 year olds making huge progress a la Jozy during this last cycle? Was Jozy a prospect for 2010 back in 2006?

[brinoch]

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/26/ghana-2-1-united-states-tactics/

 

Great summary. And not only because it supports my previous analysis. BB really can make good adjustments in-game. I just wonder why he started Clark over Edu. The team played it's best four halves of soccer with him in the game. (2nd Slovenia, all Algeria (subbed at 60'), all of Ghana (subbed in at 30').

[USSoccer]

Jeez. That list of forwards is old. Is there any hope for any current 17/18/19 year olds making huge progress a la Jozy during this last cycle? Was Jozy a prospect for 2010 back in 2006?

 

Jozy was 16 when we lost to Ghana in 2006. There are some prospects in the U17 ranks and I rate Jack MacInerrny pretty highly (he's on the list), but top class finishers are tough to come by.

 

If the worst case is we end up with Jozy/Chuck/Clint/Random backup X, and Jozy develops like we hope and Chuck is still Chuck, we'll be okay. If Jozy plateaus or Chuck isn't the same post accident, we'll need some unknowns to emerge.

 

Happily, 4 years is a long time. Davies was one of the B teamers sent to piss off CONMEMBOL during Copa America 2007, and like I said, Jozy was 16 and not on the radar.

[USSoccer]

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/06/26/ghana-2-1-united-states-tactics/

 

Great summary. And not only because it supports my previous analysis. BB really can make good adjustments in-game. I just wonder why he started Clark over Edu. The team played it's best four halves of soccer with him in the game. (2nd Slovenia, all Algeria (subbed at 60'), all of Ghana (subbed in at 30').

 

Every game followed the same template: go down early (or get saved by a crossbar), generate a couple chances, sub on Benny at halftime, push Clint up, score goals and create a bunch of pressure, and tear teams up when we decide to link passes together like a real team.

 

The conceding goals early thing wasn't new, either. We did it all cycle. Gold Cup 2007 final, El Salvador home and away, Honduras home, Costa Rica home and away, Brasil I in the Confeds, 3 of 4 games in the Cup.

 

We were also a Howard save/Gio choke job away from going down 1-0 in Columbus against Mexico, and we let Mexico equalize not too far after Charlie's strike in Azteca.

 

Stout in defense we were definitely not. If it was a result of our decision to emphasize a quick strike offense, or coaching/tactical fail, or just poorer defenders, I'm not sure, but it has been an issue for years.

[brinoch]

Our defenders are slow to react and positionally poor. They are also too slow to recover from a mistake. I really think we needed to try out other guys and see what they could do. Spector never had a real run-out. I know he's been in bad form, but still. Marshall and Goodson needed minutes.

 

Even still... there's a problem there that just keeps happening. I sure as hell don't know what it is, though.

[wolf stansson]

I stupidly went to Big Soccer a few hours after the loss. That was a mistake.

 

Jeez. That list of forwards is old. Is there any hope for any current 17/18/19 year olds making huge progress a la Jozy during this last cycle? Was Jozy a prospect for 2010 back in 2006?

I don't think anyone realistically expected Jozy to start and be our first choice forward. He was expected to be a bench candidate in 2007 after the U-20 World Cup where he outplayed Pato and other big money guys.

 

Young candidates: Jac Mac from Philly will be 21 so who knows where he'll be, but he's one of the U-20 first choice strikers. Scored 2 in 4 in last years U-17's.

http://www.mlsnet.com/player/jack-mcinerney

 

Tristan Bowen will be 23. He' 19 and starting for the Galaxy in Buddle's absense. http://www.mlsnet.com/player/tristan-bowen

Yura Movsisyan is 22 right now and just scored 7 in 13 for Randers.

Obviously Davies.

Sebastian Lletget at West Ham looks like a prospect.

 

Non-strikers:

DC's keeper, Bill Hamid is only 19 and is looking like the next Tim Howard.

Andy Najar is a mid for DC. 17 and looking like a real prospect.

 

 

Really we look pretty good in the 16-19 age group right now. Shockingly we appear to have some serious prospects on the back line with Agassamounde (however you spell that nonsense) at Braga, Gonzalez, Opara, Ream, Lichaj.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_U-20_men's_national_soccer_team#Current_roster

[USSoccer]

 

Really we look pretty good in the 16-19 age group right now. Shockingly we appear to have some serious prospects on the back line with Agassamounde (however you spell that nonsense) at Braga, Gonzalez, Opara, Ream, Lichaj.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_U-20_men's_national_soccer_team#Current_roster

 

The next coach has to start integrating the backline guys in pretty quickly. There's a very real chance none of our starting defenders going into the Cup will be starting in 2014, and only Bornstein (lack of options, potential) and Specs (versatility) are young.

[brinoch]

I think you have to assume that Jay, StevieC, and Carlos are done. Gooch will still be young enough, but he was just bad this year after the injury. Maybe he comes back. Cameron and Gonzalez? Whoever though, you're right. Gotta start that soon. Castillo?

 

I think you're looking at a starting pool of:

Gooch

Spector

Bornstein

Castillo

Marshall

Gonzalez

Cameron

Opara

Ream

Franklin

 

I'm not that familiar with all of these guys just yet. I guess I'll have to watch more MLS and see how they are doing.

[Guest]

Altidore needed some help. I think he was just beat all to hell after that Algeria game.

 

I wasn't really paying attention during the games to this but I have to think that other teams were watching Jozy very closely up top because they knew he was the only striker that was likely to actually do something. A philosophy of if Findley/Buddle/Gomez manage to score and beat them, so be it. I have to think Davies being healthy would have opened things up so much for Jozy and the team in general. And it certainly would have taken pressure off Jozy knowing there was another proven striker up there with him.

 

I hope to hell that Davies can come back healthy and be peaking or close to peaking in 2014.

 

And I didn't realize how old Buddle and Gomez (and sort of Findley) were. I thought they were all 22-23 or somewhere there. I know Findley's only 25 now but I would not have pegged the other two for 28-29.

[shnsajax]

Altidore needed some help. I think he was just beat all to hell after that Algeria game.

 

I wasn't really paying attention during the games to this but I have to think that other teams were watching Jozy very closely up top because they knew he was the only striker that was likely to actually do something. A philosophy of if Findley/Buddle/Gomez manage to score and beat them, so be it. I have to think Davies being healthy would have opened things up so much for Jozy and the team in general. And it certainly would have taken pressure off Jozy knowing there was another proven striker up there with him.

 

I hope to hell that Davies can come back healthy and be peaking or close to peaking in 2014.

 

And I didn't realize how old Buddle and Gomez (and sort of Findley) were. I thought they were all 22-23 or somewhere there. I know Findley's only 25 now but I would not have pegged the other two for 28-29.

 

There is always the possibility of naturalizing someone. Just didn't workout this year with J Jones.

 

Luis Gil would be a very outside shot at the bench. There are a couple of guys in the U20 that I know nothing about like Picault, Orozco, and Lletget. We will see a couple of good surprises and a couple of guys who fall out. Adu could still be starting come the 2014 cycle, hopefully missing out will motivate the hell out of him.

[wolf stansson]

For anyone who's worried about 2014 and where our squad stands, just read this: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=376391&root=americansabroad&cc=5901

 

Gives you some perspective. Were in way better shape than we were when Bradley came in.

[wolf stansson]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/agent-confirms-big-club-interest-dempsey

Fresh from a strong showing at the World Cup, the Texas native was linked with a bid from Napoli in Italian paper Il Mattino on Monday.

 

His agent says there are no tabled offers at this time, but he admitted that Napoli are among the clubs crowding around Dempsey.

 

"We don't have an offer from Napoli," Lyle Yorks told MLSsoccer.com. "There is a lot of interest from big clubs in Europe in Clint. And now you've got Roy Hodgson leaving for Liverpool tomorrow, if that's confirmed, so there's a lot of different things going on."

 

Yorks revealed that Dempsey has at least one admirer in each of the five top leagues—England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain—and that these clubs coming in all have European soccer on the docket this coming season.

 

"We've got in Italy a major club and in France a major club," he stated. "And in the Bundesliga a club."

 

http://www.noshortcorners.com/

Since someone will ask eventually, I'll just offer up my guesses at the French and Italian 'big clubs" - but let me make it totally clear that this is pure educated guess. This is not any inside info, so don't go tell everyone I reported it as legit news.

 

Now... just for fun... I'll go with Marseille and AC Milan. I could also reasonably see a couple of other options making sense. I also can see Liverpool in if/when Fulham boss Roy Hodgson takes the reins. Any which way, this MC Deuce situation should be fun to watch.

[shnsajax]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/agent-confirms-big-club-interest-dempsey

Fresh from a strong showing at the World Cup, the Texas native was linked with a bid from Napoli in Italian paper Il Mattino on Monday.

 

His agent says there are no tabled offers at this time, but he admitted that Napoli are among the clubs crowding around Dempsey.

 

"We don't have an offer from Napoli," Lyle Yorks told MLSsoccer.com. "There is a lot of interest from big clubs in Europe in Clint. And now you've got Roy Hodgson leaving for Liverpool tomorrow, if that's confirmed, so there's a lot of different things going on."

 

Yorks revealed that Dempsey has at least one admirer in each of the five top leagues—England, France, Germany, Italy and Spain—and that these clubs coming in all have European soccer on the docket this coming season.

 

"We've got in Italy a major club and in France a major club," he stated. "And in the Bundesliga a club."

 

http://www.noshortcorners.com/

Since someone will ask eventually, I'll just offer up my guesses at the French and Italian 'big clubs" - but let me make it totally clear that this is pure educated guess. This is not any inside info, so don't go tell everyone I reported it as legit news.

 

Now... just for fun... I'll go with Marseille and AC Milan. I could also reasonably see a couple of other options making sense. I also can see Liverpool in if/when Fulham boss Roy Hodgson takes the reins. Any which way, this MC Deuce situation should be fun to watch.

 

Damn, that will be interesting. Feel bad for Fulham though if Hodgson leaves.