Dusty and Pitcher Abuse

[Guest]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years. I am extremely worried as to how Dusty is ruining a guy with incredible stamina and Cy Young potential on a season that is in the tank.

 

Don't worry Dusty, Z will be finished soon enough.

With Z, I'm not as worried about a catastrophic failure (thought that's certainly a possibility). I'm worried about a Javier Vasquez-type reduction in stuff.

 

V was a force through his early career in Montreal, where he bore a heavy workload as ace of that staff. He never had to go under the knife, but after a while he was just never the same pitcher anymore.

[CuseCubFan69]

"He's still getting better, still learning. He's going to be something. … He's not even close [to being a finished product]. He's only 24 years old."

 

---Quote from Dusty Baker.

 

Unfortunately for Z Dusty has been riding him so hard for the last 3 years that there is a good possibility that Z will suffer a major arm injury before he ever reaches his full potential. And for those of you who say "big deal, it was only an extra 20 pitches" Think about how many times Dusty leaves him in for an "extra 20 pitches" this is a cumulative effect and has been going on for 3 years. I am extremely worried as to how Dusty is ruining a guy with incredible stamina and Cy Young potential on a season that is in the tank.

 

Don't worry Dusty, Z will be finished soon enough.

With Z, I'm not as worried about a catastrophic failure (thought that's certainly a possibility). I'm worried about a Javier Vasquez-type reduction in stuff.

 

V was a force through his early career in Montreal, where he bore a heavy workload as ace of that staff. He never had to go under the knife, but after a while he was just never the same pitcher anymore.

 

I remember arguing/debating with you about who was better Vasquez or Colon!

 

I think the slow deteriation is one of the best case scenerios especially if Hendry is foolish enough to extend Baker.

[mhuber92211]

so the OK limit for Z would have been what? 100 pitches? Pulling him in the 6th? Regardless we are talking about an additional 20 freaking pitches. Lets not get all up in arms over 20 pitches when Z was throwing a good game. Let him pitch if he was being effective. His last 2 innings were the most effective he was all night.

 

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

 

Ok so then we should just not pitch him anymore? I mean what is the OK limit for you? The Pen was just as taxed as Z was. Should we possibly blow out one of our 3 top relievers (all signed for 07 too) just in case Z couldn't handle it? Seriously, why should we be concerned? When has Z ever shown that he can't handle this workload?

 

Clemens has pitched for 20 years with a heavy workload. Not saying that Z is as good as Clemens but if there is no reason to think that Z is hurting then why not let him pitch when he is proving to be effective, chooses to stay in and the pen could use the rest.

[abuck1220]

so the OK limit for Z would have been what? 100 pitches? Pulling him in the 6th? Regardless we are talking about an additional 20 freaking pitches. Lets not get all up in arms over 20 pitches when Z was throwing a good game. Let him pitch if he was being effective. His last 2 innings were the most effective he was all night.

 

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. It's not just 20 pitches in one games. It's 20 pitches when he was laboring, after he was spiked by a runner, during a stretch where he's been pitching poorly in a season when he's been extended every single game and struck in the elbow by a bat, and when he struggled a lot after the WBC.

 

Ok so then we should just not pitch him anymore? I mean what is the OK limit for you? The Pen was just as taxed as Z was. Should we possibly blow out one of our 3 top relievers (all signed for 07 too) just in case Z couldn't handle it? Seriously, why should we be concerned? When has Z ever shown that he can't handle this workload?

 

Clemens has pitched for 20 years with a heavy workload. Not saying that Z is as good as Clemens but if there is no reason to think that Z is hurting then why not let him pitch when he is proving to be effective, chooses to stay in and the pen could use the rest.

 

i quit reading when you implied that the health of the cubs' mediocre bullpen was as important as zambrano's.

[stitchface]

when zambrano takes care of himself like clemens, then maybe we can start to think about comparing them. one exception also does not prove a rule. even if the risk to zambrano is only 1 percent - why would you take a chance in a meaningless game? its indefensible.

[mhuber92211]

But that is my point. What classifies this particular game as a chance as opposed to the 26 other starts Z has made?

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Dusty addresses Zambrano and pitch counts.

 

Baker said he isn't worried about Carlos Zambrano's pitch count. The right-hander has topped 120 pitches in a game seven times this season.

 

"I trust him enough," Baker said. "Carlos' pitch count is high for modern times. Before people started keeping track, his pitch count isn't very high at all."

 

Did you know that Greg Maddux topped 120 pitches in 44 games in his career and was 32-6 in those games? That was early in his career when the right-hander was trying to strike everybody out. Maddux has won four Cy Young awards since.

 

"We're not going to do anything to jeopardize Carlos or his career or his future," Baker said. "The thing we have to do is try to get Carlos to cut down on the average pitch per batter and average pitches per inning. That's the key."

 

Zambrano does lead the National League in pitches per start, averaging 112 per game. He's also averaging 17 pitches per inning.

 

"If we weren't in fifth place, this wouldn't be an issue," Baker said. "If we were going for the pennant, nobody would say anything."

[Sammy Sofa]

That's funny...I seem to recall pitch count WAS an issue with a lot of people in 2003, even at the end. It was just ignored then, and it is now. Good call, Dusty.

[stitchface]

interestingly, he pulled Z after 7 and 108 today.

[soccer10k]

I hope Dusty doesn't ruin Z.