Marmol vs. Marshall vs. Hill...who has the greatest upside

[Soriano12]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.

 

when has Guzman dominated at Iowa?

[goonys evil twin]

I actually think the Cubs might deal the two with the greatest upside, Marmol and Guzman, and use Hill and Marshall in the rotation next year.

 

Hendry loves his lefties, so a 2007 rotation of Zambrano, Prior, FA (Schmidt please), Marshall, and Hill gives Hendry his two lefties without inserting your auto-loss Rusch/Estes prototype.

 

Then he could deal the upside guys with higher value (Guzman and/or Marmol) as part of a package for an impact corner outfield bat.

 

Maybe deal for Jason Bay?

 

if the pirates dealt bay for guzman and marmol the franchise should be destroyed

 

They still like to give away talent. When is Bay eligible for FA anyways?

 

He is signed through 2009 at a ridiculously team friendly deal.

07:$3.25M, 08:$5.75M, 09:$7.5M

That's for what is likely to be an OPS+ of 140 or more, while whoever signs Juan Pierre will likely pay almost twice that total for a guy with an 85 or lower OPS+.

[Banedon]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.

 

when has Guzman dominated at Iowa?

 

He's got a great k/bb ratio, and decent WHIP at Iowa. He hasn't "accomplished" anything in the majors because he's had 6 whole starts, like Rich did when people were ready to give him away for a bag of baseballs.

[goonys evil twin]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.

 

when has Guzman dominated at Iowa?

 

He's got a great k/bb ratio, and decent WHIP at Iowa. He hasn't "accomplished" anything in the majors because he's had 6 whole starts, like Rich did when people were ready to give him away for a bag of baseballs.

 

And his overall minor league numbers have been great.

[Banedon]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.

 

when has Guzman dominated at Iowa?

 

He's got a great k/bb ratio, and decent WHIP at Iowa. He hasn't "accomplished" anything in the majors because he's had 6 whole starts, like Rich did when people were ready to give him away for a bag of baseballs.

 

And his overall minor league numbers have been great.

 

I was having difficulty finding more than just this years stats.

[mul21]

I also have no idea why people are still high on Guzman.

 

other than a decent relief appearence a few months back what has he accomplished? His numbers haven't been that great in Iowa either.

 

Overhyped.

 

Sounds like the Rich Hill discussions a few months back.

 

when has Guzman dominated at Iowa?

 

He hasn't yet because he hasn't had the opportunity to. He's still coming off arm injuries and this is the first regular duty he's had in 2 years. I think he needs more time at Iowa to re-establish his control, but you don't just give up on an arm that has that much potential.

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

[rawaction]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

[goonys evil twin]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I think it would change, but the problem would not completely disappear. He'll have to improve his 2006 numbers before I'd vault him to the top of any list (aside from the most upside list, which he mostly likely leads).

[cubsjunky95]

Marmol. He's got good life on his fastball with a ton of movement almost too much cause he has walked 43 in 58 IP. Marshall seems more like a bottom of the rotation guy because he needs to rely more on location and deception than stuff.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

Edited August 8, 2006 by CaliforniaRaisin

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

I wish I had seen him pitch more at Iowa this season. From what I've heard, his three plus pitches aren't as plus as they once were. But that scouting report is a bit old.

 

Any word on whether he's gotten 100% of his stuff back?

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

I wish I had seen him pitch more at Iowa this season. From what I've heard, his three plus pitches aren't as plus as they once were. But that scouting report is a bit old.

 

Any word on whether he's gotten 100% of his stuff back?

 

Not sure about his stuff, but his slider has supposedly come on real strong in the past month or so and become a dominant out-pitch per both his Iowa managers this season.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

 

I still agree with your top 2. :)

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

I wish I had seen him pitch more at Iowa this season. From what I've heard, his three plus pitches aren't as plus as they once were. But that scouting report is a bit old.

 

Any word on whether he's gotten 100% of his stuff back?

 

Not sure about his stuff, but his slider has supposedly come on real strong in the past month or so and become a dominant out-pitch per both his Iowa managers this season.

I'm sure that Craig will be happy he ditched the curve in favor of a slider. However, it makes me a sad panda. I prefer curves.

 

BTW - I've been under the impression that his ERA is largely HR-driven. Any ideas on what has made him much more long-ball prone than in the past?

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

 

I still agree with your top 2. :)

I haven't thought much about next year's rankings (until just now), but I can assure you that Veal is moving WAAAYYYYY up my list. :D

[minnesotacubsfan]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

 

I still agree with your top 2. :)

I haven't thought much about next year's rankings (until just now), but I can assure you that Veal is moving WAAAYYYYY up my list. :D

\

 

 

 

:roll: sucker for the leftys

 

 

:D

[Guest]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

 

I still agree with your top 2. :)

I haven't thought much about next year's rankings (until just now), but I can assure you that Veal is moving WAAAYYYYY up my list. :D

\

 

 

 

:roll: sucker for the leftys

 

 

:D

I could have as many as 8 pitchers in my top 10 minor leaguers.

[rawaction]

Well, the initial question asked was who has the most upside. To me, Guzman's past ability to control three plus pitches gives him more upside than any of the other guys listed.

 

Given his injury history, though, I'd put his chances of reaching that upside lower than anyone else's.

 

Does that change at all given that he hasn't been on the DL at all this year? If he completes this season healthy, I think he could easily take his place again as the top arm in the system.

 

I completely agree. I was having a conversation with Outshined about how long it'd take before you'd say Guzman was the top minor league pitcher again. I think a healthy season puts a lot to rest (not all, of course, but definitely enough for me).

 

In terms of potential amongst those listed in the first post, I'd say Marmol-Hill-Marshall (Gooz definitely first). Most likely to reach it: Hill, Marshall, Marmol, Guzman.

This past spring.

 

I still agree with your top 2. :)

I haven't thought much about next year's rankings (until just now), but I can assure you that Veal is moving WAAAYYYYY up my list. :D

 

Just started thinking about mine. Don't really know what to do with the guys in the majors if they qualify. Marmol has always been a personal favorite of mine. Mateo has to climb up the list big time. Pawelek still has amazing upside. Then you have Veal and Gallagher who are neck and neck for Cubs minor league pitcher of the year.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I'm sure that Craig will be happy he ditched the curve in favor of a slider. However, it makes me a sad panda. I prefer curves.

 

BTW - I've been under the impression that his ERA is largely HR-driven. Any ideas on what has made him much more long-ball prone than in the past?

 

He's given up 5 HRs this season - 3 in one start at approximatley 4500' in Albuquerque. From May 18th on, he's only given up 1 HR.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Just started thinking about mine. Don't really know what to do with the guys in the majors if they qualify. Marmol has always been a personal favorite of mine. Mateo has to climb up the list big time. Pawelek still has amazing upside. Then you have Veal and Gallagher who are neck and neck for Cubs minor league pitcher of the year.

 

Don't know how you decide if a player is still a prospect, but Marmol has now gone over the IP and service time for a rookie. Hill is close behind.

[rawaction]

Tim, I'll definitely have 8 pitchers in my top 10, possibly 9, though I think Patterson will slide in and Colvin likely just out.

[rawaction]

Just started thinking about mine. Don't really know what to do with the guys in the majors if they qualify. Marmol has always been a personal favorite of mine. Mateo has to climb up the list big time. Pawelek still has amazing upside. Then you have Veal and Gallagher who are neck and neck for Cubs minor league pitcher of the year.

 

Don't know how you decide if a player is still a prospect, but Marmol has now gone over the IP and service time for a rookie. Hill is close behind.

 

Didn't realize. Shows how much I've paid attention this year.

[hardcorecubfan]

Guzman

 

explain why? please Tim?

 

the guy looks like the next Kerry, a permanent reservation with the DL. His head is as wild as "Z" but Z at least has now controlled it. He has a great fastball for homerun hitter.