Girardi and Marlins Management Feud?

[RynoRules]

"Experienced" managers haven't done bupkis for the Cubs. At this point, I have no problem given a younger, newer manager a shot just for the sake of trying something different. What else do we have to lose? We're already damn near scraping the bottom and our dignity flew out the window a long time ago. Change it up...

 

Yeah, I am not sure why the guy has to be experienced in order to be succesful. In fact, that sounds contradictory to what may on this bd. have argued in the past (calls for Fredi Gonzalez for Atl, for example). He spent years around Torre and Stottlemeyer in NY. That's good enough for me. If his philosophies are sound - and I believe they are - he'd be a great manager.

 

Fire Dusty. Hire Girardi.

 

The guy doesn't have to be experienced to be successful. However, as pseudo-evidence in this thread has suggested, Joe supposedly was against inserting Johnson and Nolasco into the rotation well into the '06 season. He supposedly had to be overruled by high ranking representatives of the Marlin's front office. As I stated earlier, I don't necessarily believe this is true. However, Girardi's managing style is still largely an unknown. Do we want replace Dusty with someone that is equally inept? I don't watch a lot of Marlin's baseball, so I'm not one that can provide expert analysis on his everyday managing ability. If you do watch a lot of Florida ball, then please chime in with why we should hire Girardi.

 

Edit - I'm not sure that "being around Torre and Stottlemeyer" is good enough for me. Dusty was "around" Hank Aarron, yet he is unable to produce a team with much of an offensive prowess.

 

Huh? I am not sure how you can logically compare being around another player (as Dusty was with Aaron) to being around the most succesful manager-pitching coach combo in a generation (as Girardi was as a player and coach with the Torre-Stottlemeyer regime). That's like saying you know as much about counterterrorism technique as a CIA specialist b/c you read Tom Clancy books.

[OBPMatters]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

[USSoccer]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

 

That almost worries me. If the Cubs like him, there must be something wrong with him.

[CubinNY]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

 

That almost worries me. If the Cubs like him, there must be something wrong with him.

 

Vance can correct me if I'm wrong since he's been on the Freddie bandwgn for a long time, but I think they interviewed him before they hired Dusty.

[Fred Hornkohl]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

 

That almost worries me. If the Cubs like him, there must be something wrong with him.

 

Vance can correct me if I'm wrong since he's been on the Freddie bandwgn for a long time, but I think they interviewed him before they hired Dusty.

 

That is correct.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

 

That almost worries me. If the Cubs like him, there must be something wrong with him.

 

Vance can correct me if I'm wrong since he's been on the Freddie bandwgn for a long time, but I think they interviewed him before they hired Dusty.

 

That is correct.

 

And Hendry was extremely impressed with Gonzalez's interview. The only stumbling block was the availability of Dusty.

[fiver]

"Experienced" managers haven't done bupkis for the Cubs. At this point, I have no problem given a younger, newer manager a shot just for the sake of trying something different. What else do we have to lose? We're already damn near scraping the bottom and our dignity flew out the window a long time ago. Change it up...

 

Yeah, I am not sure why the guy has to be experienced in order to be succesful. In fact, that sounds contradictory to what may on this bd. have argued in the past (calls for Fredi Gonzalez for Atl, for example). He spent years around Torre and Stottlemeyer in NY. That's good enough for me. If his philosophies are sound - and I believe they are - he'd be a great manager.

 

Fire Dusty. Hire Girardi.

 

The guy doesn't have to be experienced to be successful. However, as pseudo-evidence in this thread has suggested, Joe supposedly was against inserting Johnson and Nolasco into the rotation well into the '06 season. He supposedly had to be overruled by high ranking representatives of the Marlin's front office. As I stated earlier, I don't necessarily believe this is true. However, Girardi's managing style is still largely an unknown. Do we want replace Dusty with someone that is equally inept? I don't watch a lot of Marlin's baseball, so I'm not one that can provide expert analysis on his everyday managing ability. If you do watch a lot of Florida ball, then please chime in with why we should hire Girardi.

 

Edit - I'm not sure that "being around Torre and Stottlemeyer" is good enough for me. Dusty was "around" Hank Aarron, yet he is unable to produce a team with much of an offensive prowess.

 

Huh? I am not sure how you can logically compare being around another player (as Dusty was with Aaron) to being around the most succesful manager-pitching coach combo in a generation (as Girardi was as a player and coach with the Torre-Stottlemeyer regime). That's like saying you know as much about counterterrorism technique as a CIA specialist b/c you read Tom Clancy books.

 

First, I'd like to reiterate that I'm not anti-Girardi. I'd much rather have him as manager instead of Dusty Baker; however, that doesn't mean that he is necessarily the best option.

 

Sure, comparing Dusty's exposure to Aaron with Girardi's exposure to Torre-Stottlemeyer is certainly a reach and may not be extremely solid. However, the fact remains that Girardi does not necessarily practice the idealogies to which he was surrounded while a member of the New York Yankees. Furthemore, we all know that Torre and Stottlemeyer have greatly benefited from having a payroll double that of any other team in the league. Yes, they both had success prior to becoming manager/pitching coach of the Yankees, but I doubt one would evaluate either as the best pitching coach or manager of their generation prior to their work with the Yankees.

 

I'm just asking someone to tell me why Girardi is the best option; I understand that the Marlins have overachieved this season, but how will that translate into success with the Cubs?

Edited August 14, 2006 by fiver

[Deeg]

To paraphrase Groucho, I wouldn't want to be a fan of any club whose manager was chosen by Jim Hendry.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm just asking someone to tell me why Girardi is the best option; I understand that the Marlins have overachieved this season, but how will that translate into success with the Cubs?

 

I don't think anyone here has said he would be the "best option" for the Cubs. And while it's true the Yankees have a bigger payroll, the Cubs' payroll is nothing to sneeze at. I just think Girardi would be an improvement over Baker.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

In his Sunday column, Phil Rogers wrote the Cubs like Freddy Gonzalez as a potential replacement for Dusty.

 

That almost worries me. If the Cubs like him, there must be something wrong with him.

 

Vance can correct me if I'm wrong since he's been on the Freddie bandwgn for a long time, but I think they interviewed him before they hired Dusty.

 

You are correct. Fredi was interviewed prior to Dusty being hired. There was speculation that had Dusty and Hendry not reached an agreement, Gonzalez would have been the choice. A few years ago, Gonzalez was one of the most talked about guys in managerial vacancies. I don't hear his name bantered as much as it had been, but I still think if a team wants to go with someone who isn't a re-tread he's an excellent choice.

 

Hendry seems to want to pattern the Cubs after the Braves, though I'm not really sure he understands how to do that, so it makes sense he'd target one of Cox's lieutenants to head the ship in that direction.

 

I like Gonzalez. He's number two or three on my list, but not because I think he'd be a subpar choice, it's just I really like what Dierker would bring to the table and I think Davey Johnson will be a winner wherever he goes. If those two guys aren't available, Gonzalez makes an outstanding choice.

[Laura]

An updated CBS Sportsline article with an interesting play-by-play on the feud is here. The bottom line for Cubs fans:

 

What was overblown over the past several days were rumors that the Chicago Cubs will be waiting with extended arms if the Marlins cut bait with Girardi. Yes, he played in Wrigley Field and yes, he is an Illinois native, and yes, Dusty Baker is almost certain to part company with the Cubs following the season, but one plus one plus one doesn't always equal three.

 

The Cubs are very high on Fredi Gonzalez, Atlanta's third-base coach, and they are expected to conduct a thorough search if Baker departs. One executive with knowledge of the Cubs says flat-out that Girardi will not be their man, even if he is free.

[Outshined_One]

An updated CBS Sportsline article with an interesting play-by-play on the feud is here. The bottom line for Cubs fans:

 

What was overblown over the past several days were rumors that the Chicago Cubs will be waiting with extended arms if the Marlins cut bait with Girardi. Yes, he played in Wrigley Field and yes, he is an Illinois native, and yes, Dusty Baker is almost certain to part company with the Cubs following the season, but one plus one plus one doesn't always equal three.

 

The Cubs are very high on Fredi Gonzalez, Atlanta's third-base coach, and they are expected to conduct a thorough search if Baker departs. One executive with knowledge of the Cubs says flat-out that Girardi will not be their man, even if he is free.

 

...wow. That's one impressively bad metaphor.

[Banedon]

An updated CBS Sportsline article with an interesting play-by-play on the feud is here. The bottom line for Cubs fans:

 

What was overblown over the past several days were rumors that the Chicago Cubs will be waiting with extended arms if the Marlins cut bait with Girardi. Yes, he played in Wrigley Field and yes, he is an Illinois native, and yes, Dusty Baker is almost certain to part company with the Cubs following the season, but one plus one plus one doesn't always equal three.

 

The Cubs are very high on Fredi Gonzalez, Atlanta's third-base coach, and they are expected to conduct a thorough search if Baker departs. One executive with knowledge of the Cubs says flat-out that Girardi will not be their man, even if he is free.

 

Ahhh...good...I was worried they wouldn't go into this with an open mind... :P