IF the Cubs Followed the Marlins...

[Hosak8]

I will begin with the disclaimer that there is no possibility of any of this ever happening, by any stretch of the imagination. However, Most of these deals seem feasible to me, and even though we'd not likely contend in 2007, these deals would give us a very young, very fun lineup with potential for the long term. And, yes, this thread is postively Marlins-esque.

 

We begin by firing Dusty and bringing in a manager who can develop young talent. It also wouldn't hurt to fire Hendry and bring in an imaginitive GM who has a clue... someone like Ricciardi (I know, not gonna happen.) I'd like to see Von Joshua as the hitting coach as well.

 

Now onto the deals:

 

Maddux (and a B prospect if necessary) for George Kottaras. (SD does this in order to try to win the West this year.)

 

ARam, Barrett, and Dempster to LA for James Loney and Andy Laroche. ARam would block Laroche and Barrett and Dempster would allow the Dodgers to compete for the West right now.

 

Lee and Walker to the Angels for Howie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, and Dallas McPherson. LA needs bats, and Lee drives up what we get in return from LA.

 

Mark Prior, Felix Pie, and PTBNL to the Mets for Mike Pelfrey and Lastings Milledge. NY is looking for another arm or two, and have expressed willingness to deal Pelfrey and/or Milledge for Willis. NOt sure that this would get it done, but you have to imagine that a healthy Prior makes the Mets the hands down favorite to win the World Series.

 

Finally, anything necessary to Arizona for Carlos Quentin. Juan Pierre, and whatever prospects we have to throw at them.

 

THen we find anyone at all who would take Jones and Neifi... for nothing. So, we finish 2006 with this lineup:

 

C- Kottaras (L) and Mathis ®

1B- Loney

2B- Kendrick

3B- Laroche ® and McPherson (L)

SS- Cedeno

LF- Murton

CF- Milledge

RF- Quentin

 

SP- Zambrano, Pelfrey, Marmol, Hill, and Guzman

Pen- similar to now, only we add Wuertz to close.

 

Talk about the excitement that that young team could create... and the money we'd have fr free agency. OKay, blast away.

[Drew Doughty]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

THen we find anyone at all who would take Jones and Neifi... for nothing.

 

Why would you just give Jacque away when he holds value for playoff contending teams right now?

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

 

They might be willing to take a look at Dempster.

 

SI.com also reported the Sox have interest in Dodgers rookie reliever Jonathan Braxton, although the Dodgers are thought to be seeking relief help now that closer Eric Gagne is out for the the season.

 

Link to article

[Drew Doughty]

i know they need relief help--I just don't think they're too interested in Dempster who is signed for a few years at a contract that could turn out to overpay Demp by a fair margin. They'd probably be more interested in Williamson if I had to guess.

[Brian]

The Marlins have a 15million dollar payroll, the cubs have the ability to go over 100, no sense in trading proven players (esp. Barrett) for maybes.

[Sabermetrician]

Could probably get more if we wanted until the offseason.

 

That Angels deal, though, is very attractive getting Mathis, Kendrick, and McPherson.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

The Marlins have a 15million dollar payroll, the cubs have the ability to go over 100, no sense in trading proven players (esp. Barrett) for maybes.

 

Yeah, but the difference would be that the Cubs could retain each of those players for a long time as opposed to being forced into trading them because they don't have the budget.

 

The hypothetical brings together young players of approximately the same age that would play together for many years to come.

 

Why especially Barrett? He's not exactly irreplaceable. Good offensively, but not irreplaceable.

[cbbryan]

We begin by firing Dusty

 

I agree with this statement!

 

Now onto the deals:

 

Maddux (and a B prospect if necessary) for George Kottaras. (SD does this in order to try to win the West this year.)

 

I have no problem trading Maddux for any young talent.

 

ARam, Barrett, and Dempster to LA for James Loney and Andy Laroche. ARam would block Laroche and Barrett and Dempster would allow the Dodgers to compete for the West right now.

 

An All-Star 3B (albeit not this year), one of the best offensive C in the NL, and a proven closer (have no problem trading him) for two highly touted [bold]prospects[/bold]! No thanks! I feel like this is overvaluing the prospect while at the same time unvaluing vets.

 

Lee and Walker to the Angels for Howie Kendrick, Jeff Mathis, and Dallas McPherson. LA needs bats, and Lee drives up what we get in return from LA.

 

The Angels are trying to trade Kennedy in order to use Kendrick. In another "rumor" McPherson and Mathis are on the block for Abreau. I like all three prospects, but I don't know why the Cubs need to trade Lee?

 

Mark Prior, Felix Pie, and PTBNL to the Mets for Mike Pelfrey and Lastings Milledge. NY is looking for another arm or two, and have expressed willingness to deal Pelfrey and/or Milledge for Willis. NOt sure that this would get it done, but you have to imagine that a healthy Prior makes the Mets the hands down favorite to win the World Series.

 

If the Cubs are going young........ why trade Pie? I'm not against trading Prior for the right deal................ Pelfrey or Milledge might be one of those players.

 

I've also read the same on the Willis trade.

 

Finally, anything necessary to Arizona for Carlos Quentin. Juan Pierre, and whatever prospects we have to throw at them.

 

I'd love to get Quentin........... I don't know that Arizona would trade him unless they were in a similar situation above like the Mets. Would Pierre put their team over the top?

 

THen we find anyone at all who would take Jones and Neifi... for nothing.

 

I go back and forth w/ Jones, but I believe he has some value and could help the Cubs if used correctly. Neifi I view the same way. He is overvalued by Dusty and that creates a problem. Used correctly he could be effective.

 

Talk about the excitement that that young team could create... and the money we'd have fr free agency. OKay, blast away.

 

If all of the moves above were done............. why would you want any Free Agents? I like your idea of trading for young talent, but I think it has to be mixed with solid vets. You can make a trade for someone like Pelfrey, lose Prior's money and use the money saved in FA to fill a void and that helps the team. I guess I don't see where fielding a great minor league team w/ high ceilings helps guarantee a better record, or outcome for the Cubs.

[ChiCubsFan]

I would love to see all this done. I think we would be able to get a little more in the Dodger deal though. Loney was just about off the prospect radar until this year and LaRoche is hurt (would it even be possible to trade for a minor leaguer on the DL?). And you're getting just that for a stud, fairly young 3b, very good hitting (best in NL maybe) catcher, and proven closer. You could probably get them to throw in Elbert, Ethier, Kemp, Broxton, etc. as well. I really like the deal with the Angels. I love Kendrick and would love to get him. I don't think it would happen, but hypothetically I love it.

 

Not to mention that all these trades would give us a lot of money to sign Zito, Schmidt, etc... in the offseason.

Edited July 16, 2006 by ChiCubsFan

[Hosak8]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you on several points. The DOdgers would rather have a rookie with 2 weeks MLB experience in a pennant race than an All-Star caliber player at catcher? Not buying it. And, they are gonna' rely on Saito and Baez and be okay with that? I think they'd jump at the chance to acquire those three players.

 

As far as the Angels go, there is no way we give up Lee for Kennedy, and if you think the Angels wouldn't deal a prospect for Lee, then we just have to agree to disagree. Figgins, Walker/Kennedy, Vlad, and Lee at the top of their lineup? Deadly, especially in the AL West, where a bat like Lee could put them way over the top.

 

And, with the Mets, fine, give them Marshall too. Whatever it takes.

[Hosak8]

I would love to see all this done. I think we would be able to get a little more in the Dodger deal though. Loney was just about off the prospect radar until this year and LaRoche is hurt (would it even be possible to trade for a minor leaguer on the DL?). And you're getting just there for a stud, fairly young 3b, very good hitting (best in NL maybe) catcher, and proven closer. You could probably get them to throw in Elbert, Ethier, Kemp, Broxton, etc. as well. I really like the deal with the Angels. I love Kendrick and would love to get him. I don't think it would happen, but hypothetically I love it.

 

Not to mention that all these trades would give us a lot of money to sign Zito, Schmidt, etc... in the offseason.

 

Honestly, I love Loney. He's killing the ball in AAA. THe part of the equation Ilike least is the situation at 3B. So, I might additionally turn around and offer Murton, Pelfrey, Laroche, and Guzman to Florida for Willis and Cabrera. That gives us the money to sign Carlos Lee, and then our lineup would be this:

 

C- Mathis and Kottaras

1B- Loney

2B- Kendrick

3B- Cabrera

SS- Cedeno

LF- Lee

CF- Milledge

RF- Quentin

 

SP- Zambrano, Willis, FA, FA, Hill/Marmol

 

In 2007 we'd be exciting, in 2008, we'd be deadly.

[cbbryan]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you on several points. The DOdgers would rather have a rookie with 2 weeks MLB experience in a pennant race than an All-Star caliber player at catcher? Not buying it. And, they are gonna' rely on Saito and Baez and be okay with that? I think they'd jump at the chance to acquire those three players.

 

As far as the Angels go, there is no way we give up Lee for Kennedy, and if you think the Angels wouldn't deal a prospect for Lee, then we just have to agree to disagree. Figgins, Walker/Kennedy, Vlad, and Lee at the top of their lineup? Deadly, especially in the AL West, where a bat like Lee could put them way over the top.

 

And, with the Mets, fine, give them Marshall too. Whatever it takes.

 

The Dodgers already have 3 catchers on their roster w/ Hall, Martin, and Alomar. One would probably have to comeback to us. I think the point is that it's too much to send to the Dodgers for just Loney and LaRoche. It's not necessarily a situation where the Dodgers wouldn't be interested, but the dynamics of the trade would have to be different.

 

If I were trading with the Dodgers I'd AND I was trading Lee (and just Lee) I'd have to get LaRoche AND Either at the very least. If I added an All-Star 3B and C it would be a heck of alot more.

[Hosak8]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you on several points. The DOdgers would rather have a rookie with 2 weeks MLB experience in a pennant race than an All-Star caliber player at catcher? Not buying it. And, they are gonna' rely on Saito and Baez and be okay with that? I think they'd jump at the chance to acquire those three players.

 

As far as the Angels go, there is no way we give up Lee for Kennedy, and if you think the Angels wouldn't deal a prospect for Lee, then we just have to agree to disagree. Figgins, Walker/Kennedy, Vlad, and Lee at the top of their lineup? Deadly, especially in the AL West, where a bat like Lee could put them way over the top.

 

And, with the Mets, fine, give them Marshall too. Whatever it takes.

 

The Dodgers already have 3 catchers on their roster w/ Hall, Martin, and Alomar. One would probably have to comeback to us. I think the point is that it's too much to send to the Dodgers for just Loney and LaRoche. It's not necessarily a situation where the Dodgers wouldn't be interested, but the dynamics of the trade would have to be different.

 

If I were trading with the Dodgers I'd AND I was trading Lee (and just Lee) I'd have to get LaRoche AND Either at the very least. If I added an All-Star 3B and C it would be a heck of alot more.

 

Yes the Dodgers have 3 catchers on the roster, and none are as good as Barrett. It's a pennant race, and if you can improve, you do so, and this would be a big improvement for them. And, Lee is not part of the Dodgers equation. But if Loney and Laroche aren't enough, then I ask for Ethier, or at the very least Izturis, who gives us another chip (either him or Ronny).

[Hosak8]

If all of the moves above were done............. why would you want any Free Agents? I like your idea of trading for young talent, but I think it has to be mixed with solid vets. You can make a trade for someone like Pelfrey, lose Prior's money and use the money saved in FA to fill a void and that helps the team. I guess I don't see where fielding a great minor league team w/ high ceilings helps guarantee a better record, or outcome for the Cubs.

 

You sign free agents because you have the money to, it's not a bad crop of free agents, and because you have a young enough, and talented enough team to compete very soon with the right veterans. Heck, do you think the Marlins wouldn't love to have 2 more veterans in that lineup right now? With two bats and one arm, they're a playoff contender.

 

Add Zito and Schmidt to a pitching staff that includes Willis and Zambrano and OH MY GOODNESS. You have 4 Cy Young quality pitchers in your rotation. And a lineup that includes Carlos Lee and Miguel Cabrera to go along with so much young talent could score runs, imo.

 

It would be the sheer definition of reloading... or in the case of the Cubs, loading.

[cbbryan]

The Dodgers don't have any real need for Barrett. Russel Martin has been fine; he's cheap and young too. they probably don't need/want dempster either.

 

If we're trading Walker to the Angels we're taking Kennedy in return. They have absolutely no need to have both of them on the team at the same time. Unless that was spun into a three team deal, of course, but that just seems too complicated.

 

In the Mark Prior deal, I'm thinking it would take 1 or 2 pitching prospects more for that to happen. Marshall might do the track. I don't think they'd deal both of them (more specifically Milledge, as the fans sort of like Milledge) in one deal.

 

I would love to see this happen, but I think it takes more than that to get the job done.

 

Sorry, but I disagree with you on several points. The DOdgers would rather have a rookie with 2 weeks MLB experience in a pennant race than an All-Star caliber player at catcher? Not buying it. And, they are gonna' rely on Saito and Baez and be okay with that? I think they'd jump at the chance to acquire those three players.

 

As far as the Angels go, there is no way we give up Lee for Kennedy, and if you think the Angels wouldn't deal a prospect for Lee, then we just have to agree to disagree. Figgins, Walker/Kennedy, Vlad, and Lee at the top of their lineup? Deadly, especially in the AL West, where a bat like Lee could put them way over the top.

 

And, with the Mets, fine, give them Marshall too. Whatever it takes.

 

The Dodgers already have 3 catchers on their roster w/ Hall, Martin, and Alomar. One would probably have to comeback to us. I think the point is that it's too much to send to the Dodgers for just Loney and LaRoche. It's not necessarily a situation where the Dodgers wouldn't be interested, but the dynamics of the trade would have to be different.

 

If I were trading with the Dodgers I'd AND I was trading Lee (and just Lee) I'd have to get LaRoche AND Either at the very least. If I added an All-Star 3B and C it would be a heck of alot more.

 

Yes the Dodgers have 3 catchers on the roster, and none are as good as Barrett. It's a pennant race, and if you can improve, you do so, and this would be a big improvement for them. And, Lee is not part of the Dodgers equation. But if Loney and Laroche aren't enough, then I ask for Ethier, or at the very least Izturis, who gives us another chip (either him or Ronny).

 

What I'm saying is the Cubs would have to take a C back in the deal.

[cbbryan]

If all of the moves above were done............. why would you want any Free Agents? I like your idea of trading for young talent, but I think it has to be mixed with solid vets. You can make a trade for someone like Pelfrey, lose Prior's money and use the money saved in FA to fill a void and that helps the team. I guess I don't see where fielding a great minor league team w/ high ceilings helps guarantee a better record, or outcome for the Cubs.

 

You sign free agents because you have the money to, it's not a bad crop of free agents, and because you have a young enough, and talented enough team to compete very soon with the right veterans. Heck, do you think the Marlins wouldn't love to have 2 more veterans in that lineup right now? With two bats and one arm, they're a playoff contender.

 

Add Zito and Schmidt to a pitching staff that includes Willis and Zambrano and OH MY GOODNESS. You have 4 Cy Young quality pitchers in your rotation. And a lineup that includes Carlos Lee and Miguel Cabrera to go along with so much young talent could score runs, imo.

 

It would be the sheer definition of reloading... or in the case of the Cubs, loading.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just trade for Schmidt and Zito then sign them both to contracts? DFA Rusch and one other. Sign C. Lee in the offseason?

 

I think it's a stretch the Marlins would trade either one of Willis or Cabrera let alone both. I'd love to have Cabrera (more so then Willis), but it probably won't happen.

[Hosak8]

(Delete) Edited July 16, 2006 by Hosak8

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Maddux (and a B prospect if necessary) for George Kottaras. (SD does this in order to try to win the West this year.)

 

I don't see the Padres making this deal considering Kottaras is their top prospect and they've been using the Piazza/Bard platoon just to pass the time until Kottaras is ready.

 

Playoffs or not....they just can't leave themselves with that catching situation for next year and years to come.

 

Maybe if deal was made that involved Barrett to the Padres then I could see it, but not just Maddux and a B level prospect. But even then Maddux and Barrett for Kottaras and ___________?????????

[ChiCubsFan]

Maddux (and a B prospect if necessary) for George Kottaras. (SD does this in order to try to win the West this year.)

 

I don't see the Padres making this deal considering Kottaras is their top prospect and they've been using the Piazza/Bard platoon just to pass the time until Kottaras is ready.

 

Playoffs or not....they just can't leave themselves with that catching situation for next year and years to come.

 

Maybe if deal was made that involved Barrett to the Padres then I could see it, but not just Maddux and a B level prospect. But even then Maddux and Barrett for Kottaras and ___________?????????

 

Cesar Carillo, Josh Barfield, Chase Headley, Ben Johnson

[d_money]

I love the idea of going young. Cubs brass need to learn that fans could care less how much payroll is...we just want to win.

 

I have absolutely NO confidence in Baker, Hendry and especially MacPhail in their vision (or lack thereof) in developing younger talent. Before we start acquiring a bunch of prospects there needs to be a drastic organizational change.

 

I'm open to trading all but: DLee, Big Z and Prior. We've all been through the ringer w/ Prior and I really question his heart/balls, but IF he is healthy - he (25) and Big Z are young and are good buidling blocks for the future.

[BigbadB]

The 2006 Florida Marlins are 10x more fun to watch than the 2006 Chicago Cubs. (though I really did enjoy Zambrano's baserunning skills yesterday).

 

I'd rather sit and watch a bunch of no names with heart and soul doing everything they can to prove they belong in the big leagues than a bunch of spoiled, whiney, overpaid veterans pissin' and moanin' about why they are 20 games under .500.

 

Personally, I think Florida is only a Cabrera and Willis trade away from giving the Mets a run for their money next year.