Never before have I been so anxious for the offseason....

[Bote McBoteface]

Seriously, even in 2002 when the Cubs were aweful, it wasn't this bad. The only word I can use to describe this teams is abysmal. Not even Lee can stop us from losing 100 this year.

 

Hopefully we get a manager this off season. If Hendry re-signs Baker, hopefully Andy jumps in and cans both of them. Hopefully we get a pitching staff that isn't made of glass. Hopefully we fire the whole freaking coaching staff. Have you noticed how Murton has been swinging at everything lately? I wonder why that is!

 

I really have to feel bad for Carlos Zambrano, Derrek Lee, Todd Walker, Ronnie Cedeno, J. Jones (as hard as I was on him earlier), and Michael Barrett. Those are the only guys on this terrible team who are even trying any more. You can tell when you watch these losers attempt to play that they don't want to be there. If I was one of those guys, I would be counting the days until my contract expires so I could get the heck out of Chicago.

 

 

And the sad part is, we're doing nothing. No mix-ups. Nothing. The manager that is trotting a .200 hitting 1 time GG short-stop (who isn't even doing that good on defense anymore) out there as much as he can, the manager who is unable to provide any motivation for these bums to bust some ass, is being backed up by the General Manager.

 

Seriously, I like Nevin. Really, I do. He doesn't fit in to next years plans. Matt Murton does. WHY then is Nevin getting playing time? So that he can help us win games? Yea, he's doing a great job of that! Get Murton out there so he can get at-bats. Also, stop taking away his patience. That was the only thing that seperated him from the rest of the "can't miss" prospects we've had who have done nothing but suck, half a season spent with our coaching staff and its nearly gone. Pathetic.

[Schwarber Fan]

Yea, but....

 

I'd give anything to play at Wrigley every day...

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Seriously, even in 2002 when the Cubs were aweful, it wasn't this bad. The only word I can use to describe this teams is abysmal. Not even Lee can stop us from losing 100 this year.

 

Hopefully we get a manager this off season. If Hendry re-signs Baker, hopefully Andy jumps in and cans both of them. Hopefully we get a pitching staff that isn't made of glass. Hopefully we fire the whole freaking coaching staff. Have you noticed how Murton has been swinging at everything lately? I wonder why that is!

 

I really have to feel bad for Carlos Zambrano, Derrek Lee, Todd Walker, Ronnie Cedeno, J. Jones (as hard as I was on him earlier), and Michael Barrett. Those are the only guys on this terrible team who are even trying any more. You can tell when you watch these losers attempt to play that they don't want to be there. If I was one of those guys, I would be counting the days until my contract expires so I could get the heck out of Chicago.

 

 

And the sad part is, we're doing nothing. No mix-ups. Nothing. The manager that is trotting a .200 hitting 1 time GG short-stop (who isn't even doing that good on defense anymore) out there as much as he can, the manager who is unable to provide any motivation for these bums to bust some ass, is being backed up by the General Manager.

 

Seriously, I like Nevin. Really, I do. He doesn't fit in to next years plans. Matt Murton does. WHY then is Nevin getting playing time? So that he can help us win games? Yea, he's doing a great job of that! Get Murton out there so he can get at-bats. Also, stop taking away his patience. That was the only thing that seperated him from the rest of the "can't miss" prospects we've had who have done nothing but suck, half a season spent with our coaching staff and its nearly gone. Pathetic.

 

Because like you said Nevin drives in runs and he is the best chance to win AT the moment. right now wins are important to one person more than anyone else......Dusty. He does not want to be fired. No one does. If wins can save his job then he do what he thinks will get the wins. The future dosesn't matter to Dusty. He needs to worry about the present. If he can save his job, he can then leave on his own accord if thats what he wants or continue coaching the Cubs next season and then worry about grooming Murton(assuming he is still a Cub) whether it is as a platoon or starter.

[BigbadB]

Because like you said Nevin drives in runs and he is the best chance to win AT the moment. right now wins are important to one person more than anyone else......Dusty. He does not want to be fired. No one does. If wins can save his job then he do what he thinks will get the wins. The future dosesn't matter to Dusty. He needs to worry about the present. If he can save his job, he can then leave on his own accord if thats what he wants or continue coaching the Cubs next season and then worry about grooming Murton(assuming he is still a Cub) whether it is as a platoon or starter.

 

Quoted for truth.

[Fro]

It kind of makes sense to play Nevin in the OF to show he can do it and raise his trade value.

 

If he's still starting after the trade deadline, I agree, that'll be ridiclous.

[Balsa]

It kind of makes sense to play Nevin in the OF to show he can do it and raise his trade value.

 

If he's still starting after the trade deadline, I agree, that'll be ridiclous.

I think this is much more the case than anything else. If they'd given up on Murton they would have sent him to AAA.

[srbin84]

Maybe Dusty decided to platoon Murton with Jones but since Jones is lava hot right now, he's riding it out.

[erik316wttn]

You know, I don't think I've ever given up on a season so quickly.

 

But this whole management team needs to be replaced. Every last one of them.

[soccer10k]

You know, I don't think I've ever given up on a season so quickly.

 

But this whole management team needs to be replaced. Every last one of them.

 

Amen to that. Maybe because I'm getting older but I don't think I've given up on a season before the ASB before.

[Derwood]

I don't think you're the only one to have given up already. I mean heck, it's like 8 hours before a Cubs - White Sox game and there is no Game Thread for it yet :shock:

[Pinktermite]

I feel sad for those on here that can't wait for the off season. What, do you guys expect that anything will REALLY change with this team? Come on! The cubs would have to offer Barry Zito something like 60 million a year to come play in this funeral home for the Cubs they call Wrigley.

 

Do you really think that "next year" will be the "year"? Hendry will still be in charge...maybe Dusty will be gone, but the mostly train wreck team will still be here. What this team needs it isn't going to get. And that's sad, because I've been a Cubs fan all my life and I see the White Sox doing everything right.

 

As for Murton, he's a kid that might deserve a chance, but he hasn't exactly earned himself the right to stay in Left Field. Maybe Dusty has screwed him up, and maybe not, he's still a grown man that should be smart enough to coach himself if he thinks that Dusty has messed with his mind too much.

 

But nothing will ever change with the Cubs. You have to understand that, and be content with it, because you are otherwise doomed to a life filled with frustration. Think the Trib will boost payroll the way THAT company is doing? No way...just live with the ineptness...and enjoy it, because bitching about it will only frustrate you more.

[C.C.]

I would watch if they started to trade some of the players and started to play the kids. I'd like to see Rich Hill get called up and pitch the rest of the season. I'm curious to see what he can do.

[bleedcubbieblue]

It kind of makes sense to play Nevin in the OF to show he can do it and raise his trade value.

 

If he's still starting after the trade deadline, I agree, that'll be ridiclous.

 

First, you are assuming that Nevin has some value, I would argue if he does, it is very, very little. But for the sake of argument, let us say that he does have some value, and if that is the case, then I think you are giving Dusty and management a whole lot of credit for figuring this out. My guess is that it is Dusty being Dusty, playing the vet over the kid, but I will say that as of late, Murton has given him very little reason to play Murt over Nevin. At this point, everything is almost pointless, except getting a kid some playing time over a vet, but that has always been Dusty's mantra his whole managerial career, although he has disputed this.

 

BCB

[goonys evil twin]

Because like you said Nevin drives in runs and he is the best chance to win AT the moment.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Except in reality, that's not true.

 

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI. And that's playing everyday, while Murton has been a pinch runner and occasional pinch hitter. Phil's got 1 extra base hit in his last 9 games, many of them against LHP. And Murton hits better than him against LHP. Nevin had an extremely brief (not to mention mild) hot streak when he first started playing for the Cubs. But he's been ice cold since, and has been ice cold for most of the year, and just as cold last year. He's a pinch hitter at best. If he's going to help the team, it's by getting an at bat a game hitting for the pitcher, and the occasional start. Anything more than that hurts the team's chances, both now, and in the future.

[bleedcubbieblue]

 

Except in reality, that's not true.

 

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI. And that's playing everyday, while Murton has been a pinch runner and occasional pinch hitter. Phil's got 1 extra base hit in his last 9 games, many of them against LHP. And Murton hits better than him against LHP. Nevin had an extremely brief (not to mention mild) hot streak when he first started playing for the Cubs. But he's been ice cold since, and has been ice cold for most of the year, and just as cold last year. He's a pinch hitter at best. If he's going to help the team, it's by getting an at bat a game hitting for the pitcher, and the occasional start. Anything more than that hurts the team's chances, both now, and in the future.

 

The other thing was when Nevin first came over, after starting one game, he was sore because it had been so long in-between starts for him, and had to sit out the next game. After these last couple of weeks, he must be getting rub downs nightly in the trainers office.

 

Funniest thing I had ever read was that he had to sit out because he was sore after one start at first. It was not like he was coming back from injury or anything, just rotting on bench in Texas, but you would think he would be keeping himself in shape at least, getting his hitting and fielding in, it wasn't like he could not do these things everyday because of injury.

 

Could you imagine a team like the Yankees making a trade for someone like Nevin and after starting the first game, telling them he can't go the next day because he was sore? He would be on the next train to Columbus, but yet our manager comes on and tells us how long in-between starts it has been for him. Really shows the mentality of the 2 teams.

 

BCB

[Warren Brusstar]

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI.

 

And yet, your tiny one week sample size utterly dwarfs Murton's numbers v. RHP for the entire season. Reasonable persons can differ whether playing Nevin or Murton against RHP is in the long term best interest of the Cub organization. But to pretend that Murton gives this team a better chance to win games right now against RHP is wilful ignorance.

[goonys evil twin]

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI.

 

And yet, your tiny one week sample size utterly dwarfs Murton's numbers v. RHP for the entire season.

 

Those are Nevin's overall numbers, not just against RHP. Nevin has faced a lot of LHP recently, even though Murton's numbers dwarf his against LHP.

 

Don't talk to me about wilful ignorance, your non-stop bashing of Matt Murton and inability to see the need for young players to fight through tough stretches is epitome of fan ignorance.

[BigbadB]

Because like you said Nevin drives in runs and he is the best chance to win AT the moment.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Except in reality, that's not true.

 

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI. And that's playing everyday, while Murton has been a pinch runner and occasional pinch hitter. Phil's got 1 extra base hit in his last 9 games, many of them against LHP. And Murton hits better than him against LHP. Nevin had an extremely brief (not to mention mild) hot streak when he first started playing for the Cubs. But he's been ice cold since, and has been ice cold for most of the year, and just as cold last year. He's a pinch hitter at best. If he's going to help the team, it's by getting an at bat a game hitting for the pitcher, and the occasional start. Anything more than that hurts the team's chances, both now, and in the future.

 

I quoted it for truth because Dusty sees Nevin as the player that can help him improve his record much moreso than Murton no matter what the splits.

 

I was in total agreement with the poster I quoted because of that. Not because I think Nevin should be playing over Murton.

[Warren Brusstar]

Nevin is hitting .231/.310/.346 in the last 7 days, with 1 RBI.

 

And yet, your tiny one week sample size utterly dwarfs Murton's numbers v. RHP for the entire season.

 

Those are Nevin's overall numbers, not just against RHP. Nevin has faced a lot of LHP recently, even though Murton's numbers dwarf his against LHP.

 

Don't talk to me about wilful ignorance, your non-stop bashing of Matt Murton and inability to see the need for young players to fight through tough stretches is epitome of fan ignorance.

 

1. Attack the post, not the poster.

 

2. LOL. You don't see the irony of lecturing me regarding letting players "fight through tough stretches" in the same thread in which you use Phil Nevin's numbers for the last week to support your argument?

 

Phil Nevin v. RHP this year - OPS .732

Matt Murton v. RHP this year - OPS .603

 

Again, reasonable people can differ whether playing Murton now is in the best interest of the Cubs organization. You won't hear a peep from me if Murton plays every game the rest of the season. But there is absolutely nothing in his performance record to demonstrate that he gives the Cubs a better chance to win games against RHP than Nevin. And Nevin is terrible.

[BigbadB]

1. Attack the post, not the poster.

 

How about following your own advice?

[Warren Brusstar]

1. Attack the post, not the poster.

 

How about following your own advice?

 

And where exactly did I attack the poster in this thread? All I've done is criticize his ideas. He's the one that's chosen to characterize me. (See, e.g. "non-stop bashing of Murton.") You don't see the difference?

[BigbadB]

But to pretend that Murton gives this team a better chance to win games right now against RHP is wilful ignorance.

 

What exactly did he say that was any worse than what you said here?

 

He didn't even use any different words than the ones you used.

 

You both know better than that.

[goonys evil twin]

1. Attack the post, not the poster.

 

2. LOL. You don't see the irony of lecturing me regarding letting players "fight through tough stretches" in the same thread in which you use Phil Nevin's numbers for the last week to support your argument?

 

Phil Nevin v. RHP this year - OPS .732

Matt Murton v. RHP this year - OPS .603

 

Again, reasonable people can differ whether playing Murton now is in the best interest of the Cubs organization. You won't hear a peep from me if Murton plays every game the rest of the season. But there is absolutely nothing in his performance record to demonstrate that he gives the Cubs a better chance to win games against RHP than Nevin. And Nevin is terrible.

 

Don't give me the attack the poster crap, you decided to talk about ignorance.

 

Nevin's career is enough to justify not playing him everyday right now. Somebody said he's driving in runs and giving the Cubs a better chance right now, and that's just not true. You decided to talk about just against RHP, but that's not the discussion. Nevin has faced lefties this past week. Furthermore, you need to let kids fight through tough stretches as they develop. You don't need to give 35 year olds who have sucked for 2 years time to fight through stretches.

[soapy]

2. LOL. You don't see the irony of lecturing me regarding letting players "fight through tough stretches" in the same thread in which you use Phil Nevin's numbers for the last week to support your argument?

Except that Murton possibly holds future value for this team while Nevin does not.

 

I'm not completely angered by Nevin's PT at this point because I'm hoping it's going to increase his trade value. If it continues past the deadline, I'll be furious.

[soccer10k]

1. Attack the post, not the poster.

 

2. LOL. You don't see the irony of lecturing me regarding letting players "fight through tough stretches" in the same thread in which you use Phil Nevin's numbers for the last week to support your argument?

 

Phil Nevin v. RHP this year - OPS .732

Matt Murton v. RHP this year - OPS .603

 

Again, reasonable people can differ whether playing Murton now is in the best interest of the Cubs organization. You won't hear a peep from me if Murton plays every game the rest of the season. But there is absolutely nothing in his performance record to demonstrate that he gives the Cubs a better chance to win games against RHP than Nevin. And Nevin is terrible.

 

Don't give me the attack the poster crap, you decided to talk about ignorance.

 

Nevin's career is enough to justify not playing him everyday right now. Somebody said he's driving in runs and giving the Cubs a better chance right now, and that's just not true. You decided to talk about just against RHP, but that's not the discussion. Nevin has faced lefties this past week. Furthermore, you need to let kids fight through tough stretches as they develop. You don't need to give 35 year olds who have sucked for 2 years time to fight through stretches.

 

It seems like Warren agrees with you in that Murton should be given the chance to work through his stretches with his statement "you won't hear a peep from me if Murton plays every game the rest of the season." But allowing Murton to struggle for a while is not going to help the team win now, which is the debate. Nevin gives the team the best chance to win right now.

 

I agree with you in that Murton should be playing. The season is lost anyway so just let him play. I've said the same thing about letting Guzman/Hill/Ryu/Marmol get starts to gain experience. Same goes for Murton. But the way Dusty sees it, Nevin is his guy.