Mariotti on Baker

[Banedon]

Murton is killing us, having a worse run than Corey Patterson ever did. A .367 OPS in June - horrendous made worse by his penchant for GIDPs. Bynum, of course isn't the ultimate answer, but right now Murton doesn't look like he's worth defending either. Oh, and BTW his pitches/PA is higher this year than last when he hung up a .900+ OPS. It might be somewhat valid to pin some of this on Clines, but it doesn't seem to be the biggest reason for his problems.

 

What is it going to hurt to let him play every game the rest of the year? Either you're right, he stinks, and he tanks the rest of the year, and we're no worse off than we would've been anyway, or he does ok, and is a good throw-in in a trade somewhere, or he figures it out and starts hitting like crazy, and we reap the benefits. There's really nothing bad that can come out of letting him, and the other young guys get out there and either prove, or disprove their value.

[MustangMike]

Murton is killing us, having a worse run than Corey Patterson ever did. A .367 OPS in June - horrendous made worse by his penchant for GIDPs. Bynum, of course isn't the ultimate answer, but right now Murton doesn't look like he's worth defending either. Oh, and BTW his pitches/PA is higher this year than last when he hung up a .900+ OPS. It might be somewhat valid to pin some of this on Clines, but it doesn't seem to be the biggest reason for his problems.

 

What is it going to hurt to let him play every game the rest of the year? Either you're right, he stinks, and he tanks the rest of the year, and we're no worse off than we would've been anyway, or he does ok, and is a good throw-in in a trade somewhere, or he figures it out and starts hitting like crazy, and we reap the benefits. There's really nothing bad that can come out of letting him, and the other young guys get out there and either prove, or disprove their value.

 

Agreed, what's the diffence if he stinks on a horrible team....at least we'll know where we stand.

[Backtobanks]

But like Bruce says in his article today, there's no indication that Hendry will not let Baker manage with a fully healthy roster, and since it doesn't look like Lee will be back till July, I'm not holding my breath on anything happening soon.

 

I would love to get rid of Baker, but I'm sure Hendry feels he has to give Dusty a chance with all of his players back, especially since Dusty has been using that as an excuse all season. The next question is what would constitute a successful turn around for the team. Obviously, the playoffs are out of the question, but what about ending the season at .500? I know how most of us feel, but what would Hendry do in that situation?

[Soul]

Hendry's going to let Baker manage. Not because he wants to see what happens with Lee back or any of that jazz.

 

 

....because he genuinely thinks Baker is a great manager.

[J.R.]

Too many careers have been ruined by Dusty's "coaching." It's time to turn him loose on someone else's prized prospects.

[CUBZ99]

Murton is killing us, having a worse run than Corey Patterson ever did. A .367 OPS in June - horrendous made worse by his penchant for GIDPs. Bynum, of course isn't the ultimate answer, but right now Murton doesn't look like he's worth defending either. Oh, and BTW his pitches/PA is higher this year than last when he hung up a .900+ OPS. It might be somewhat valid to pin some of this on Clines, but it doesn't seem to be the biggest reason for his problems.

 

What is it going to hurt to let him play every game the rest of the year? Either you're right, he stinks, and he tanks the rest of the year, and we're no worse off than we would've been anyway, or he does ok, and is a good throw-in in a trade somewhere, or he figures it out and starts hitting like crazy, and we reap the benefits. There's really nothing bad that can come out of letting him, and the other young guys get out there and either prove, or disprove their value.

 

Its not like Bynum is much older than Murton (1 year) or less likely to become a big leaguer. Maybe the Cubs want to see what they have in Bynum by playing him regularly before they DFA him. It would be a different story if they were giving the AB's to Mabry imo. But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

[Banedon]

Its not like Bynum is much older than Murton (1 year) or less likely to become a big leaguer. Maybe the Cubs want to see what they have in Bynum by playing him regularly before they DFA him. It would be a different story if they were giving the AB's to Mabry imo. But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

 

It's less likely that Bynum will become a GOOD big leaguer. Are you seriously suggesting that Bynum has the same potential as Murton? Because I strongly disagree with that.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

 

Freddie vs. Everyone has been horrible.

[YearofDaCubs]

Let Baker manage the rest of the year with healthy players. If they did fire him, they would not make a playoff run. Give him every opportunity to hang himself with no excuses.

 

If he's fired now though, perhaps guys like Murton would get to play every day instead of being platooned with a Freddie Bynum. Baker can do more damage to this team, even when they're losing.

 

Exactly. I wish I could find the date of the Clines qoute about Murton needing to be more aggressive and compare his pitches seen/PA. I bet there would almost be a direct corelation to that date and Muton's OBP slide.

 

How is Murton supposed to get better at hitting right handed pitchers if he never sess them? Again, it's one thing to platoon a vet in the twilight of his career who is used to this type of thing, and quite another to a young player who is used to playing every day. Anyone want to look up Murton's # vs. righties in the minors?

Unfortunately, for us Cubs fans Baker and Hendry are the biggest idiots in baseball. They are up there with the Joe Morgan's of the world.

[CuseCubFan69]

This team will never be healthy so what's the point of keeping Baker until it is? I see the Cards lost their 1st baseman and they are still in first. Baker and Hendry have had been very bad the last 2 years and I see no end in sight even if their are no more injuries. Besides....depending on injury prone players doesn't make this "we've had injuries" story valid in any way. This is all just a very bad joke and the worst part is the joke is on us because we continue to spend money while they continue to make it.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Its not like Bynum is much older than Murton (1 year) or less likely to become a big leaguer. Maybe the Cubs want to see what they have in Bynum by playing him regularly before they DFA him. It would be a different story if they were giving the AB's to Mabry imo. But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

 

It's less likely that Bynum will become a GOOD big leaguer. Are you seriously suggesting that Bynum has the same potential as Murton? Because I strongly disagree with that.

 

Bynum was selected in the second round of the draft in 2000 by Oakland. My question is what did they see in Bynum? There had to be something there to be selected that high in the draft.

[Neuby]

Its not like Bynum is much older than Murton (1 year) or less likely to become a big leaguer. Maybe the Cubs want to see what they have in Bynum by playing him regularly before they DFA him. It would be a different story if they were giving the AB's to Mabry imo. But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

 

It's less likely that Bynum will become a GOOD big leaguer. Are you seriously suggesting that Bynum has the same potential as Murton? Because I strongly disagree with that.

 

Bynum was selected in the second round of the draft in 2000 by Oakland. My question is what did they see in Bynum? There had to be something there to be selected that high in the draft.

 

Bynum ability to play all over the diamond with his speed and average power should give him a pretty good shot at becoming a productive player. Look at Patterson.

[badger1679666666]

I wish someone in the media would conveniently point out the injuries of the Cards (Rolen, Edmonds, Carpenter, Pujols) and how they don't make excuses. Maybe they would be forced to reevaluate the organizational philosophy.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

Its not like Bynum is much older than Murton (1 year) or less likely to become a big leaguer. Maybe the Cubs want to see what they have in Bynum by playing him regularly before they DFA him. It would be a different story if they were giving the AB's to Mabry imo. But if they want to try out Bynum, why not? Murton vs. RHP has been horrible.

 

It's less likely that Bynum will become a GOOD big leaguer. Are you seriously suggesting that Bynum has the same potential as Murton? Because I strongly disagree with that.

 

Bynum was selected in the second round of the draft in 2000 by Oakland. My question is what did they see in Bynum? There had to be something there to be selected that high in the draft.

 

Bynum ability to play all over the diamond with his speed and average power should give him a pretty good shot at becoming a productive player. Look at Patterson.

 

I see what you are saying. But, even so I'm not sure speed and versatility alone gives merit to a second round pick. I wonder if they saw more in him or was it just a bad pick.

[CuseCubFan69]

I wish someone in the media would conveniently point out the injuries of the Cards (Rolen, Edmonds, Carpenter, Pujols) and how they don't make excuses. Maybe they would be forced to reevaluate the organizational philosophy.

 

Only the Cubs players have injuries. The Yankee's don't have any injuries either...just the Cubs.

[goonys evil twin]

I see what you are saying. But, even so I'm not sure speed and versatility alone gives merit to a second round pick. I wonder if they saw more in him or was it just a bad pick.

 

Maybe he did some things in college that made him look better than he really is. He's been a pro now for 6 seasons though and his numbers have shown, pretty convincingly, that he's no better than a bench player. Comparisons to the Corey Patterson situation hold no water. A 2nd round pick does not have the same value as the 3rd overall pick. And Bynum has never shown anywhere close to the same upside as Patterson.

[Yestheydo]

I don't know about dumping Prior just yet...

I do. I'd send Wood and Prior together to Texas for that Koronka guy, he's pretty good. Shows up, anyway.

[RonnieWooWooSanto]

I see what you are saying. But, even so I'm not sure speed and versatility alone gives merit to a second round pick. I wonder if they saw more in him or was it just a bad pick.

 

Maybe he did some things in college that made him look better than he really is. He's been a pro now for 6 seasons though and his numbers have shown, pretty convincingly, that he's no better than a bench player. Comparisons to the Corey Patterson situation hold no water. A 2nd round pick does not have the same value as the 3rd overall pick. And Bynum has never shown anywhere close to the same upside as Patterson.

 

I agree that Bynum should be on the bench. Trust me I'm not fighting for Bynum getting playing time. I'm just trying to figure out what was seen in him.

 

In terms of Patterson, I'm not even sure where that comparison came from. I didn't throw that out there.

[Banedon]

I don't know about dumping Prior just yet...

I do. I'd send Wood and Prior together to Texas for that Koronka guy, he's pretty good. Shows up, anyway.

 

Ohhhhh...I see what you did there!!! Clever.

[goonys evil twin]

I see what you are saying. But, even so I'm not sure speed and versatility alone gives merit to a second round pick. I wonder if they saw more in him or was it just a bad pick.

 

Maybe he did some things in college that made him look better than he really is. He's been a pro now for 6 seasons though and his numbers have shown, pretty convincingly, that he's no better than a bench player. Comparisons to the Corey Patterson situation hold no water. A 2nd round pick does not have the same value as the 3rd overall pick. And Bynum has never shown anywhere close to the same upside as Patterson.

 

I agree that Bynum should be on the bench. Trust me I'm not fighting for Bynum getting playing time. I'm just trying to figure out what was seen in him.

 

In terms of Patterson, I'm not even sure where that comparison came from. I didn't throw that out there.

 

I knew it wasn't you, but just included that in the response.

 

Bynum ability to play all over the diamond with his speed and average power should give him a pretty good shot at becoming a productive player. Look at Patterson.

 

I don't know the history of Bynum. But 2nd round draft status doesn't mean he was that well thought of. Lots of crap players get taken by the 2nd round. My guess is they liked his athleticism and that he showed relatively decent patience, his IsoD has been consistently between .060 and .080 as a pro. And he was probably relatively affordable. He's just shown limited power and has very little ability to hit for average, so his overall production has remained weak. Basically, he's hit like a utility infielder. And I wouldn't be surprised if Oakland was hoping that is what he'd become. A utility player who can give you similar to what he put up at age 22 in high A (.306/.385/.390) can be very useful. The problem is that was a career year for him in the minors and he hasn't been close to that AVG or OBP since. His career minor league line of .275/.347/.363 is acceptable for a utility player. But that's the type of guy you let walk after he reaches free agency or if his arbitration numbers get out of whack, and I'm guessing Oakland was looking for 4-5 years of his service at or around those levels as something that could help them.

 

He's got no business being in a corner outfield platoon

[johnnyba99]

Ok. Stupid question and totally off topic. What is IsoD?

[goonys evil twin]

Ok. Stupid question and totally off topic. What is IsoD?

 

IsoD = OBP minus Batting Average (OBP-BA=IsoD)

 

Somebody with a lot of patience might have an IsoD of .100 (.400 OBP - .300 AVG), while somebody with very little patience might be around .015 (Neifi's .222 OBP - .207 AVG).

[johnnyba99]

Thanks!

[JC]

Regarding the article that is the basis of this thread, just say no to Brenly (unless it is for the sole purpose of getting him out of the booth).

 

Brenly isn't anything close to special as a manager.