Grudzielanek

[samhainn77]

Grudz had an OPS+ of 96 and 92 in 2004 and 2005. Walker was 105 and 115. Grudz is in his late 30's now, while Todd is 3 years younger. Neither one is in huge demand, but Todd is clearly the better option.

 

Thanks for the giggles...you failed to mention defense here which is where Grudzielanek has it ALL over Todd Walker. OPS alone is not the way to judge a player. You must look at the COMPLETE player...but I know how you stat geeks are. Oh and it helps that Grudz knows how to keep his yapper shut and play the game hard. Character guy... What a huge loss for the Cubs when they lost Grudz.

 

grudz is good defensively? good one. and since when is todd walker not a character guy? you have been listening to too much sports radio

 

I don't listen to sports talk radio. It is rubbish. You stat geeks here amaze me. Funny how any game I watch that the announcers for the other team seem to really like Grudzielanek as an all around player. Trust their judgement over you stat geeks.

 

Oh and one more thing...from the KC Star:

No-error ball: Royals second baseman Mark Grudzielanek, going into Saturday night's game against the Mariners, had no errors in 46 games while handling 173 chances.

 

Including last season with the St. Louis Cardinals, Grudzielanek had a string of 64 games without an error.

 

Let me guess, you love Scott Podsednik and David Eckstein. Those guys are gritty and gutty! Also, were you pretty fired up about the Pierre trade? He's a gamer, speed never slumps! I'm with you man, Gut feelings and guys who have been around the game a long time are much better than cold hard numbers and "Geeks" who probably never made it past high school ball. I primarliy watch sportscenter and the wednesday night DH in order to find out the top players of the game. Numbers don't tell you enough about a player, you have to see how they look at the plate...do they sacrifice, hit the ball to the right side of the infield to move runners, etc. :shock:

[RedIvyCub]

 

Let me guess, you love Scott Podsednik and David Eckstein. Those guys are gritty and gutty! Also, were you pretty fired up about the Pierre trade? He's a gamer, speed never slumps! I'm with you man, Gut feelings and guys who have been around the game a long time are much better than cold hard numbers and "Geeks" who probably never made it past high school ball. I primarliy watch sportscenter and the wednesday night DH in order to find out the top players of the game. Numbers don't tell you enough about a player, you have to see how they look at the plate...do they sacrifice, hit the ball to the right side of the infield to move runners, etc. :shock:

 

Hate Podsednik...Eckstein I could take or leave but I give him a lot of credit for the effort he puts forth and seems like a decent guy.

 

Bottom line here is they aren't going to change my opinion and I am not going to change anyone else's opinion on this subject. I value more than the stats when it comes to evaluating a player because there is much more to a player than his numbers. They aren't robots...they are people.

 

What a boring world it would be if we all agreed. I just find it sad that because you don't agree that you have fun busting my chops and feeling like big men. Sorry, it's how I view it.

[Banedon]

Wow...week old bump.

[Bruno7481]

 

I wouldn't totally disregard those qualities in a player. Guys that have the ability to move runners, for instance, hitting the ball to the right side with a man on 2nd base can be very valuable.

 

Just because someone doesn't have an 850 OPS or higher doesn't make them a bad player. Don't get me wrong, you need those guys that put up power, OBP, OPS, etc as well.

 

You should pay attention to the numbers, but also keep your eyes open for other qualities as well. I think often times the numbes are realied upon too heavily and anybody who doesn't fit a certain criteria is considered worthless. That is not always the case.

[thedaymen]

Let me guess, you love Scott Podsednik and David Eckstein. Those guys are gritty and gutty! Also, were you pretty fired up about the Pierre trade? He's a gamer, speed never slumps! I'm with you man, Gut feelings and guys who have been around the game a long time are much better than cold hard numbers and "Geeks" who probably never made it past high school ball. I primarliy watch sportscenter and the wednesday night DH in order to find out the top players of the game. Numbers don't tell you enough about a player, you have to see how they look at the plate...do they sacrifice, hit the ball to the right side of the infield to move runners, etc. :shock:

 

Thank you Mr. Colbert.....

[Catman61]

Don't really want to get into who is better, but I do think they are more comparable offensively than it might look at 1st glance. Grudz has a career OPS+ of 89 and Walker's is 99. What I noticed is that Walker had had 2 years one might consider as outliers, the 115 in 2005 and 119 back in 1998 all the rest are grouped from 86 to 105

 

 

If you leave out Walker's 2005 for a moment and compare his 2002-2004 to Grudz 2003-2005 they are pretty close

TW 99-95-105

MG 105-96-92

 

There is no argument that Walker is the better hitter, he has the better avg, OBP and SLG. I just don't think the disparity is quite as big as it may appear.

[Magnetic Curses]

Grudz had an OPS+ of 96 and 92 in 2004 and 2005. Walker was 105 and 115. Grudz is in his late 30's now, while Todd is 3 years younger. Neither one is in huge demand, but Todd is clearly the better option.

 

Thanks for the giggles...you failed to mention defense here which is where Grudzielanek has it ALL over Todd Walker. OPS alone is not the way to judge a player. You must look at the COMPLETE player...but I know how you stat geeks are. Oh and it helps that Grudz knows how to keep his yapper shut and play the game hard. Character guy... What a huge loss for the Cubs when they lost Grudz.

 

Grudz was hated in LA, many thought of him as a jerk in Chicago as well. And for all the talk that Walker must be a bad character guy because he's left several teams, Grudz has played for just as many teams. And Grudz does not "have" Walker on defense. They are very similar.

 

i remember grudz not being able to keep his "yapper"shut at the beginning of the 2004 season when he felt he got low-balled on his deal.

 

grudz isn't a great "clubhouse" guy, despite the fact that he may have the physical appearance of one. not that it really matters anyway, the "clubhouse effect" is the most overrated factor in baseball.

 

somebody has an axe to grind with "stat geeks", whatever that means.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

Let me guess, you love Scott Podsednik and David Eckstein. Those guys are gritty and gutty! Also, were you pretty fired up about the Pierre trade? He's a gamer, speed never slumps! I'm with you man, Gut feelings and guys who have been around the game a long time are much better than cold hard numbers and "Geeks" who probably never made it past high school ball. I primarliy watch sportscenter and the wednesday night DH in order to find out the top players of the game. Numbers don't tell you enough about a player, you have to see how they look at the plate...do they sacrifice, hit the ball to the right side of the infield to move runners, etc. :shock:

 

Hate Podsednik...Eckstein I could take or leave but I give him a lot of credit for the effort he puts forth and seems like a decent guy.

 

Bottom line here is they aren't going to change my opinion and I am not going to change anyone else's opinion on this subject. I value more than the stats when it comes to evaluating a player because there is much more to a player than his numbers. They aren't robots...they are people.

 

What a boring world it would be if we all agreed. I just find it sad that because you don't agree that you have fun busting my chops and feeling like big men. Sorry, it's how I view it.

 

what a piece of work. you come in here, calling board members "stat geeks" and attempting (poorly, i might add) to trivialize their position, you get flamed and start crying about it. boo hoo.

[Magnetic Curses]

 

I wouldn't totally disregard those qualities in a player. Guys that have the ability to move runners, for instance, hitting the ball to the right side with a man on 2nd base can be very valuable.

 

Just because someone doesn't have an 850 OPS or higher doesn't make them a bad player. Don't get me wrong, you need those guys that put up power, OBP, OPS, etc as well.

 

You should pay attention to the numbers, but also keep your eyes open for other qualities as well. I think often times the numbes are realied upon too heavily and anybody who doesn't fit a certain criteria is considered worthless. That is not always the case.

 

trying to to do anything other than picking a good pitch to hit (if not, taking pitches--there are worse things than striking out looking--say, grounding a good sinkerball weakly to the shortstop and into a double play), and driving the ball--can be argued as counterproductive.

 

if you're swinging at poor pitches and you're not albert pujols or vlad guerrero, chances are you're in trouble.

 

driving the ball and drawing walks are very underrated, and really the most important fundamentals of hitting.