Encourged but realistic

Ding Dong Johnson · June 6, 2006

Thing about Womack that is really encouraging is that he is taking walks.

And having Womack in the second spot is lighting a fire under Pierre.

Guy is getting hits, taking walks, and stealing bases with Womack up there. Doesn't seem to have any pressure anymore, unlike the past couple months.

Why was he tanking when Walker was hitting 400+ and taking walks behind him?

Sammy Sofa · June 6, 2006

Because eventually losing your job to Walker isn't nearly as humiliating as losing your job to Tony Womack.

JakeSlater · June 6, 2006

Thing about Womack that is really encouraging is that he is taking walks.

And having Womack in the second spot is lighting a fire under Pierre.

Guy is getting hits, taking walks, and stealing bases with Womack up there. Doesn't seem to have any pressure anymore, unlike the past couple months.

Why was he tanking when Walker was hitting 400+ and taking walks behind him?

I can't say for sure, but it seems like there is some kind of understanding with speedy guys. Seems like they are more comfortable with each other when they know the other won't be caught off in a double play most of the time, or make a stupid mistake at the plate.

Tony Womack compliments Pierre well, and we've needed that. If Tony's hitting, that's a bonus. If not, he takes walks. Best of both worlds.

Ding Dong Johnson · June 6, 2006

Thing about Womack that is really encouraging is that he is taking walks.

And having Womack in the second spot is lighting a fire under Pierre.

Guy is getting hits, taking walks, and stealing bases with Womack up there. Doesn't seem to have any pressure anymore, unlike the past couple months.

Why was he tanking when Walker was hitting 400+ and taking walks behind him?

I can't say for sure, but it seems like there is some kind of understanding with speedy guys. Seems like they are more comfortable with each other when they know the other won't be caught off in a double play most of the time, or make a stupid mistake at the plate.

Tony Womack compliments Pierre well, and we've needed that. If Tony's hitting, that's a bonus. If not, he takes walks. Best of both worlds.

Do you actually believe any of that?

goonys evil twin · June 6, 2006

Thing about Womack that is really encouraging is that he is taking walks.

And having Womack in the second spot is lighting a fire under Pierre.

Guy is getting hits, taking walks, and stealing bases with Womack up there. Doesn't seem to have any pressure anymore, unlike the past couple months.

Why was he tanking when Walker was hitting 400+ and taking walks behind him?

I can't say for sure, but it seems like there is some kind of understanding with speedy guys. Seems like they are more comfortable with each other when they know the other won't be caught off in a double play most of the time, or make a stupid mistake at the plate.

Tony Womack compliments Pierre well, and we've needed that. If Tony's hitting, that's a bonus. If not, he takes walks. Best of both worlds.

I doubt it has anything to do with 2 speedy guys being on the same wavelength. Pierre was playing like crap for a long time, much worse than should have been expected. A little resurgence was inevitable, no matter who was hitting 2nd.

JakeSlater · June 6, 2006

Thing about Womack that is really encouraging is that he is taking walks.

And having Womack in the second spot is lighting a fire under Pierre.

Guy is getting hits, taking walks, and stealing bases with Womack up there. Doesn't seem to have any pressure anymore, unlike the past couple months.

Why was he tanking when Walker was hitting 400+ and taking walks behind him?

I can't say for sure, but it seems like there is some kind of understanding with speedy guys. Seems like they are more comfortable with each other when they know the other won't be caught off in a double play most of the time, or make a stupid mistake at the plate.

Tony Womack compliments Pierre well, and we've needed that. If Tony's hitting, that's a bonus. If not, he takes walks. Best of both worlds.

Do you actually believe any of that?

For one thing, I said I couldn't be for sure, so it was an educated guess.

But remember that Pierre had Castillo behind him for a couple years in Miami. It's always good to have a speedy guy behind you in the lineup.

And I don't understand the hatred with Womack. Not at all. Been a solid ballplayer with us since he's been here. You hate him because Dusty likes him or something?

We've won more with Womack in the lineup, and he's STILL hated. Yikes.

goonys evil twin · June 6, 2006

And I don't understand the hatred with Womack. Not at all. Been a solid ballplayer with us since he's been here. You hate him because Dusty likes him or something?

We've won more with Womack in the lineup, and he's STILL hated. Yikes.

Hatred of Womack?

He's sucked most of his career. He was with the Cubs before and sucked (albeit in limited and injury riddled opportunity), and his best year was 2004 with the rival Cardinals. He got off to a nice start with the Cubs, but has probably already started his inevitable return to crappiness.

CubfaninCA · June 6, 2006

It's good to see the Cubs win some games. Yesterdays attempt at a sweep in ST. Louis was a good see-saw affiar with the Cubs coming up short. But they battled back after being down. This is a good sign. Yesterdays loss was on the pitching staff.

So the Cubs take 2/3 from the Reds and the Cards.

***If the Cubs win each series in June (Taking 3 out of 4 vs. the Reds and the Brewers) The Cubs would be back at .500 by June 28th. ***

IF is a huge word and probably spoken to often in Diehard Cub fans circles but the season is what it is.

Here's to watching some much better baseball.

Also, I get the feeling Dusty leaned on his coaching staff and the players are responding. IMO

Good to see them playing better ball cause I hate seeing them lose. Kinda ruins the summer.

They need something like a 9 out of 10 run and a long losing streak by St. Louis.

BigbadB · June 6, 2006

The issue with Womack is no different than the issue that the Cubs management crew seems to ignore as if the issue doesn't exist.

That issue is the lack of OBP at the top of the order. Womack has been wonderful in his brief stint with the Cubs this year. Neifi has been wonderful at times as well. The problem becomes that these brief wonderful stints gives management a false sense of security.

I've graphed how freakishly low Derrek Lee's RBI output in 2005 had EVERYTHING to do with the poor OBP at the top of the order.

At this juncture, the Cubs have 25 RBI from the #3 spot in the order so far this season, which includes Derrek Lee's at bat totals from the beginning of the year.

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

This explains why the Cubs have produced a measily 25 runs from the #3 spot. I'd venture to guess that 25 runs is good for dead last in the entire MLB.

The answer, according to Hendry and Dusty, was that they needed speed at the top of the order. They completely ignored that getting on base is the real problem. Right now, Pierre, Neifi and Womack should all be batting 8th in the order. The top of the order should be reserved for good OBP guys. If you don't have any good OBP guys, go get some.

David Ortiz has twice as many RBI as our #3 hitters. Kevin Youkilis runs about as fast as Prince Fielder, yet scored at will in his brief stint in the lead off spot this year because he got on base. Mark Loretta isn't a stolen base threat in the slightest. The more often you get guys on base, the increased opportunities arise to drive runs in from your most productive hitters.

CubfaninCA · June 6, 2006

Lee's return should provide a nice boost and help the Cubs play over .500 ball, but they need a lot of things to go right.

Wood & Prior need to become Wood/Prior 03. The odds of that happening are pretty slim tho. :( Also, Pierre needs to get back to his career average, Jones has to stay around .900 ops and Ramirez needs to go on a month long 1.100 ops run...

goonys evil twin · June 6, 2006

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

Not that it matters much, but that was Neifi's OBP coming into the season. It's actually .299 now.

RynoRules · June 6, 2006

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

Not that it matters much, but that was Neifi's OBP coming into the season. It's actually .299 now.

We have so many good options now in terms of letting Nevin play 1B and having Walker at 2B, that I just don't get why he sniffs the starting lineup.

Soul · June 6, 2006

I still think we're in too big a hole, but it's definitely nice to see a few wins for a change. Losing every damn day, it starts to wear on me.

The only danger is, if it keeps up Dusty will be extended----which of course means so will Clines & Sarge.

BigbadB · June 6, 2006

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

Not that it matters much, but that was Neifi's OBP coming into the season. It's actually .299 now.

Yeah, I was referencing baseball-reference, which doesn't have this year's stuff on there. But, at least I was showing Neifi's OBP favorably. :?

JakeSlater · June 6, 2006

The issue with Womack is no different than the issue that the Cubs management crew seems to ignore as if the issue doesn't exist.

That issue is the lack of OBP at the top of the order. Womack has been wonderful in his brief stint with the Cubs this year. Neifi has been wonderful at times as well. The problem becomes that these brief wonderful stints gives management a false sense of security.

I've graphed how freakishly low Derrek Lee's RBI output in 2005 had EVERYTHING to do with the poor OBP at the top of the order.

At this juncture, the Cubs have 25 RBI from the #3 spot in the order so far this season, which includes Derrek Lee's at bat totals from the beginning of the year.

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

This explains why the Cubs have produced a measily 25 runs from the #3 spot. I'd venture to guess that 25 runs is good for dead last in the entire MLB.

The answer, according to Hendry and Dusty, was that they needed speed at the top of the order. They completely ignored that getting on base is the real problem. Right now, Pierre, Neifi and Womack should all be batting 8th in the order. The top of the order should be reserved for good OBP guys. If you don't have any good OBP guys, go get some.

David Ortiz has twice as many RBI as our #3 hitters. Kevin Youkilis runs about as fast as Prince Fielder, yet scored at will in his brief stint in the lead off spot this year because he got on base. Mark Loretta isn't a stolen base threat in the slightest. The more often you get guys on base, the increased opportunities arise to drive runs in from your most productive hitters.

Neifi should be #8 in the order, but Pierre and Womack? NO WAY!

Right now, we've averaged about 7 runs a game in the past 8 games, and 6 of those games were with Womack and Pierre at the top of the order. If Womack doesn't hit, he walks.....if he hits, it's a bonus.

Plus he's the only #2 that Pierre has gelled with right now.

Ding Dong Johnson · June 6, 2006

The issue with Womack is no different than the issue that the Cubs management crew seems to ignore as if the issue doesn't exist.

That issue is the lack of OBP at the top of the order. Womack has been wonderful in his brief stint with the Cubs this year. Neifi has been wonderful at times as well. The problem becomes that these brief wonderful stints gives management a false sense of security.

I've graphed how freakishly low Derrek Lee's RBI output in 2005 had EVERYTHING to do with the poor OBP at the top of the order.

At this juncture, the Cubs have 25 RBI from the #3 spot in the order so far this season, which includes Derrek Lee's at bat totals from the beginning of the year.

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

This explains why the Cubs have produced a measily 25 runs from the #3 spot. I'd venture to guess that 25 runs is good for dead last in the entire MLB.

The answer, according to Hendry and Dusty, was that they needed speed at the top of the order. They completely ignored that getting on base is the real problem. Right now, Pierre, Neifi and Womack should all be batting 8th in the order. The top of the order should be reserved for good OBP guys. If you don't have any good OBP guys, go get some.

David Ortiz has twice as many RBI as our #3 hitters. Kevin Youkilis runs about as fast as Prince Fielder, yet scored at will in his brief stint in the lead off spot this year because he got on base. Mark Loretta isn't a stolen base threat in the slightest. The more often you get guys on base, the increased opportunities arise to drive runs in from your most productive hitters.

Neifi should be #8 in the order, but Pierre and Womack? NO WAY!

Right now, we've averaged about 7 runs a game in the past 8 games, and 6 of those games were with Womack and Pierre at the top of the order. If Womack doesn't hit, he walks.....if he hits, it's a bonus.

Plus he's the only #2 that Pierre has gelled with right now.

While I will admit that Pierre has picked it up over the past 8 games (324/375 by my count), Womack has been steadily declining. He started 5/7, but has gone 238/304 in the last 6 games.

Warpticon · June 6, 2006

I don't see any reason this team can't get back to .500 relatively quickly--by the ASB or soon thereafter. This team is definitely undertalented for the money, but there's no way it's a 10-15 games below .500 team. There are loads of players underperforming, and not a single one overperforming but Jones of late. There's no way that lasts, especially with the players that are coming back. Barring more serious injury setbacks, the team has almost no choice but to get significantly better.

No, this shouldn't be a sub .400 W% team (and thankfully, now it's not), but it would have to be about a .656 W% team to get over .500 by the ASB. I think the trading deadline is a more realistic option, and even that will take a lot of work.

Yeah, but we're talking over about a 30-40 game stretch. Any decent team is capable of playing at that level for less than a quarter of a season. That's just winning 25 out of 40 games.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Warpticon

JakeSlater · June 6, 2006

The issue with Womack is no different than the issue that the Cubs management crew seems to ignore as if the issue doesn't exist.

That issue is the lack of OBP at the top of the order. Womack has been wonderful in his brief stint with the Cubs this year. Neifi has been wonderful at times as well. The problem becomes that these brief wonderful stints gives management a false sense of security.

I've graphed how freakishly low Derrek Lee's RBI output in 2005 had EVERYTHING to do with the poor OBP at the top of the order.

At this juncture, the Cubs have 25 RBI from the #3 spot in the order so far this season, which includes Derrek Lee's at bat totals from the beginning of the year.

Tony Womack has a lifetime OBP of .316. Neifi Perez has a lifetime OBP of .301. Pierre is off to the worst start of his career in terms of OBP.

This explains why the Cubs have produced a measily 25 runs from the #3 spot. I'd venture to guess that 25 runs is good for dead last in the entire MLB.

The answer, according to Hendry and Dusty, was that they needed speed at the top of the order. They completely ignored that getting on base is the real problem. Right now, Pierre, Neifi and Womack should all be batting 8th in the order. The top of the order should be reserved for good OBP guys. If you don't have any good OBP guys, go get some.

David Ortiz has twice as many RBI as our #3 hitters. Kevin Youkilis runs about as fast as Prince Fielder, yet scored at will in his brief stint in the lead off spot this year because he got on base. Mark Loretta isn't a stolen base threat in the slightest. The more often you get guys on base, the increased opportunities arise to drive runs in from your most productive hitters.

Neifi should be #8 in the order, but Pierre and Womack? NO WAY!

Right now, we've averaged about 7 runs a game in the past 8 games, and 6 of those games were with Womack and Pierre at the top of the order. If Womack doesn't hit, he walks.....if he hits, it's a bonus.

Plus he's the only #2 that Pierre has gelled with right now.

While I will admit that Pierre has picked it up over the past 8 games (324/375 by my count), Womack has been steadily declining. He started 5/7, but has gone 238/304 in the last 6 games.

He's also walking a bit, regardless. I knew his hitting wouldn't last long, but he does walk a bit, and he's good on the bases when he gets there.

Not saying he's an awesome free agent pickup, but anyone that can gel with Pierre and help get him back in the fold works with me. In the two games with Neifi in the 2 spot, he went 1 for 8, and in that one hit, he didn't DARE steal because Neifi hacks away all the time. That either brings a foul ball or instant DP for a fair ball.

I don't dislike Neifi. I think he's good for what he brings to the table, which is defense at 3 infield positions, but he should NOT be a 2 hitter at all, regardless of how he's hitting.

goonys evil twin · June 6, 2006

Not saying he's an awesome free agent pickup, but anyone that can gel with Pierre and help get him back in the fold works with me.

So would you advocate keeping Womack in the 2 hole even as he reverts to crappy form because of this mystical gelling ability with Pierre?

JakeSlater · June 6, 2006

If he gels with Pierre, of course.

If it all stops, then back to the drawing board.....simple as that. I want what is working, and I won't complain about Tony hitting in the two hole if Juan's starting to play more like the .305 career average guy that we know he can be.

goonys evil twin · June 6, 2006

If he gels with Pierre, of course.

If it all stops, then back to the drawing board.....simple as that. I want what is working, and I won't complain about Tony hitting in the two hole if Juan's starting to play more like the .305 career average guy that we know he can be.

So if he sucks, but gels, he can stay? Why not see if this very unlikely to be true theory of gelling is actually not true and remove him from the 2 hole if he sucks and see if Pierre can hit with somebody more competent there? Hitters don't need to gel with others around them, they need to hit. This isn't synchronized swimming.

CubinNY · June 6, 2006

Not saying he's an awesome free agent pickup, but anyone that can gel with Pierre and help get him back in the fold works with me.

I present you Juan-Antonio-Pierre Womack

He hits .270/320/436 and he plays "rover"

BigbadB · June 6, 2006

Neifi should be #8 in the order, but Pierre and Womack? NO WAY!

Right now, we've averaged about 7 runs a game in the past 8 games, and 6 of those games were with Womack and Pierre at the top of the order. If Womack doesn't hit, he walks.....if he hits, it's a bonus.

Plus he's the only #2 that Pierre has gelled with right now.

And do you believe all these runs that have scored lately is due to the lead off hitters?

The top 2 spots in the order make up less than 1/5 of all the runs scored since the start of the Atlanta series.

Pierre has been 14-46 with 2 walks in that span. He's scored 5 runs in that span. 5 runs out of 62 is less than 1/12th of the runs. There's only 9 spots in the order, and the top of the order sees the most at bats. I see a problem.

The #2 hitters are 11-44 in that span. They've scored 6 times of the 62 runs scored. Less than 1/10th of all the runs scored.

So, in that 10 game span, the top two hitters in the line up have gone 25-90 with 4 walks. What's that come to? A .308 OBP. .308 isn't good enough to bat 8th, IMO. Yet, the Cubs proudly display their combined .308 right at the top of the order for everyone to see.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Womack and Pierre.

BigbadB · June 7, 2006

New fun stat:

The Cubs are an 0-4 out of the 2 hole in the 6/7/06 game from having an OBP below .300 in both of the top 2 spots in the line up. As of yesterday's game, the Cubs have played more than 1/3 of the 2006 season.

OBP's in the top spots in the order:

Lead off= .289

#2 spot= .300

Derrek Lee sure has a lot to look forward to when he gets back.

Why this organization is so stubborn to recognize this pattern as a huge reason their average run production is near dead last in the league is absolutely beyond me.

Being a lead off hitter is not a right. It's something you earn. Pierre has done nothing to earn that spot.

Put Murton at the top of the order and stick Walker 2nd. Let Jones, Barrett and Ramirez make up the 3/4/5 spots.

Murton

Walker

Ramirez

Jones

Barrett

Nevin

Cedeno

Pierre

Just do it! At least with this line up, opposing pitchers will be forced to stop pitching underhand to the top of the order hitters, since they couldn't do any damage if it was set up on a T.

cubfan1955 · June 7, 2006

Put Murton at the top of the order and stick Walker 2nd. Let Jones, Barrett and Ramirez make up the 3/4/5 spots.

Murton
Walker
Ramirez
Jones
Barrett
Nevin
Cedeno
Pierre

I like that lineup. It makes sense. Which is why it will never happen with Dusty managing. :cry:

Encourged but realistic

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