Pujols' "bat-throwing" incident (explanation)

[Chocolate Milk]

How does Zambrano pumping his fist after a strikeout have anything to do with Pujols premeditated showing up of an opposing pitcher? There is no comparison. It makes no sense at all.

 

Showboating is showboating. I'm not saying that either guy is right or wrong. They're both human.

 

As far as being "pre-meditated", how many times have you seen a pitcher throw at a batter who hit a home run off of him, or ran the bases with too much of a strut in his step? Plenty of times. Why is it OK for a pitcher to pre-meditate such behavior, but it's not OK for a batter?

 

So? What in god's name does this have to do with anything? What on Earth are you talking about? When did I ever say that was ok?

[snoodmonger]

I'm not saying that either one is "pathetic". All I'm saying is that both Zambrano and Pujols are human (although Zambrano tends to be "more human" :wink: ).

 

One or two posters here suggested that a ball should be thrown at Pujols' head because of this incident. THAT, my friend, is pathetic.

No the possibility of that is why Pujols said what it said. It wasn't some bold, classy move on his part. It was the realization he was probably going to face Perez plenty of more times this year and beyond, and he didn't feel like getting earflapped for his temporary punk moment.

 

 

Yeah right.

 

I must not have read between the lines as thoroughly as you did, but I don't recall seeing anything CLOSE to an apology from Pujols. If anything, he's leaning toward the arrogant side.

 

sometimes you take a guy deep and everybody gets real mad, and that's when trouble starts. You hit another guy, you hit this guy. You don't want things happening like that.

 

Trnaslation: please don't plunk me or my teammates.

 

I probably shouldn't bring it down to that level like I did last week, but I showed today that that's not the way I play the game. At the same time, I need to respect my teammates. Because I don't want any of my guys to get hurt from me doing something stupid like that.

 

Translation: please don't plunk me or my teammates.

 

And finally, just because the bolded part is embarrassingly lame:

 

[Rolen said]'Don't bring it down to that level, because you are the one that is going to look stupid.' Which I did. I looked stupid. That was my fault. I'm human. I make mistakes. Drop it like it's hot. That's it.

 

http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/

[Mizzou]

On a side note, I noticed that Zambrano was very animated in his strikeout celebration, with his team losing last night.

On a side note, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Pujols situation, does it? And you wonder why tons of people think you're just here to troll and argue.

[K-Town]

I'm not saying that either one is "pathetic". All I'm saying is that both Zambrano and Pujols are human (although Zambrano tends to be "more human" :wink: ).

 

One or two posters here suggested that a ball should be thrown at Pujols' head because of this incident. THAT, my friend, is pathetic.

No the possibility of that is why Pujols said what it said. It wasn't some bold, classy move on his part. It was the realization he was probably going to face Perez plenty of more times this year and beyond, and he didn't feel like getting earflapped for his temporary punk moment.

 

 

Yeah right.

 

I must not have read between the lines as thoroughly as you did, but I don't recall seeing anything CLOSE to an apology from Pujols. If anything, he's leaning toward the arrogant side.

 

sometimes you take a guy deep and everybody gets real mad, and that's when trouble starts. You hit another guy, you hit this guy. You don't want things happening like that.

 

Trnaslation: please don't plunk me or my teammates.

 

I probably shouldn't bring it down to that level like I did last week, but I showed today that that's not the way I play the game. At the same time, I need to respect my teammates. Because I don't want any of my guys to get hurt from me doing something stupid like that.

 

Translation: please don't plunk me or my teammates.

 

And finally, just because the bolded part is embarrassingly lame:

 

[Rolen said]'Don't bring it down to that level, because you are the one that is going to look stupid.' Which I did. I looked stupid. That was my fault. I'm human. I make mistakes. Drop it like it's hot. That's it.

 

http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/

 

 

Obviously he doesn't want himself or his teammates to get beaned. Why would he want that? What's the point? Still, I'm not sure he's willing to hide under a rock every time a guy shows him up. Perez did his thing, Pujols did his thing, and then Pujols tried to put it to bed. Seems reasonable.

[Chocolate Milk]

I think K-Town likes Pujols!

[da bears]

Pujols looked like an idiot when he flipped his bat. If I was the pitcher, I would have at least brushed him back his next at bat. And the Zambrano thing is a totally, unrelated situation. For one, Zambrano did NOT have anything personal against these batters. And bringing up Zambrano on a CUBS board is probably not the best thing to do anyways. Pujols had a personal vendetta against that pitcher, and he acted like a damned fool when he hit a homer. I guess he doesn't realize that some pitchers think it's a big thing when they get the greatest hitter and human being alive out. To me it seems Albert is a little oversensative.

[K-Town]

Pujols looked like an idiot when he flipped his bat. If I was the pitcher, I would have at least brushed him back his next at bat. And the Zambrano thing is a totally, unrelated situation. For one, Zambrano did NOT have anything personal against these batters. And bringing up Zambrano on a CUBS board is probably not the best thing to do anyways. Pujols had a personal vendetta against that pitcher, and he acted like a damned fool when he hit a homer. I guess he doesn't realize that some pitchers think it's a big thing when they get the greatest hitter and human being alive out. To me it seems Albert is a little oversensative.

 

This is the "Rivalries" board, and I didn't say anything derogatory about Zambrano. He celebrated...... with his team behind. In that regard, it was similar to what Pujols did. I'm not judging him here.

[Blueheart05]

I'm not sure why you're defending Pujols here. It's obvious that what he did was premeditated showboating. No matter how much he tries to "justify" it's merits, it is no better than what he accuses Perez of doing.

 

His explanations are hallow and, unfortunately for him, more people will remember the bat flip than will read the "explanation." So he's helped to tarnish his own image in the eyes of many. Then again, I never bought into the squeaky image that was being spoon feed to the public (Pujols is no different than any other player in his reactions. I've seen him admire homeruns and flip his bat--although not as arrogantly--in the past).

[The Voice of Reason]

 

On a side note, I noticed that Zambrano was very animated in his strikeout celebration, with his team losing last night.

 

K-Town - No need to throw in incendiary comments with the objective of riling up an entire team's fan base.

[rocket]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

[K-Town]

 

On a side note, I noticed that Zambrano was very animated in his strikeout celebration, with his team losing last night.

 

K-Town - No need to throw in incendiary comments with the objective of riling up an entire team's fan base.

 

It was simply a comparative thing. Like I said, they're both human.

[Blueheart05]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

 

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet.

[K-Town]

I'm not sure why you're defending Pujols here. It's obvious that what he did was premeditated showboating. No matter how much he tries to "justify" it's merits, it is no better than what he accuses Perez of doing.

 

His explanations are hallow and, unfortunately for him, more people will remember the bat flip than will read the "explanation." So he's helped to tarnish his own image in the eyes of many. Then again, I never bought into the squeaky image that was being spoon feed to the public (Pujols is no different than any other player in his reactions. I've seen him admire homeruns and flip his bat--although not as arrogantly--in the past).

 

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard.

 

How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does.

[K-Town]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

 

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet.

 

It was over the top. Even he says so. He probably shouldn't have done it, but at least he's man enough to admit that it was probably a mistake. How often do you see ballplayers do that (admit they're wrong)?

[Chocolate Milk]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

 

I don't think people are that worked up about it. I brought it up initially in the Pujols thread. I said something like, "Nice showboating." because I thought it was pretty funny.

 

The reason why people are getting bent out of shape is because K-town's ridiculous homer defense of Pujols. Also, pointlessly bringing up Big Z when he doesn't apply in any way, didn't help.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

If the situations are comparable, let's reverse them.

 

Pujols hits a home run in a game he's losing, and pumps his fist as he leaves the batters box.

 

Zambrano K's the last hitter of an inning in a game he's losing, then tosses his glove into the dugout and walks/jogs off the mound.

[K-Town]

If the situations are comparable, let's reverse them.

 

Pujols hits a home run in a game he's losing, and pumps his fist as he leaves the batters box.

 

Zambrano K's the last hitter of an inning in a game he's losing, then tosses his glove into the dugout and walks/jogs off the mound.

 

OK.

[Blueheart05]

I'm not sure why you're defending Pujols here. It's obvious that what he did was premeditated showboating. No matter how much he tries to "justify" it's merits, it is no better than what he accuses Perez of doing.

 

His explanations are hallow and, unfortunately for him, more people will remember the bat flip than will read the "explanation." So he's helped to tarnish his own image in the eyes of many. Then again, I never bought into the squeaky image that was being spoon feed to the public (Pujols is no different than any other player in his reactions. I've seen him admire homeruns and flip his bat--although not as arrogantly--in the past).

 

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard.

 

How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does.

 

 

There's no double standard for me. Players do these things all the time (although, I do think he went beyond whatever little dance he claimed Perez pulled on him). I don't think it would have been a story if the retaliation hadn't been so pronounced. How many people even remember the so-called disrespect Perez showed to him last year? Like it or not, many people WILL remember Pujols' stunt

 

 

By "spoon fed" I mean that there seems to be a conscious effort to portray him only as a good guy (like the anti-Bonds) when in reality, he's just like any other player with good and bad traits.

[Blueheart05]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

 

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet.

 

It was over the top. Even he says so. He probably shouldn't have done it, but at least he's man enough to admit that it was probably a mistake. How often do you see ballplayers do that (admit they're wrong)?

 

I'm not sure that he admitted he was wrong because of some feeling of guilt as much as it was to undo the damage he caused to his image. He certainly wasn't consolatory right away... He's received a lot of negative press in the wake of this incident so I think that's why he admitted it was wrong.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Blueheart05

[K-Town]

I'm not sure why you're defending Pujols here. It's obvious that what he did was premeditated showboating. No matter how much he tries to "justify" it's merits, it is no better than what he accuses Perez of doing.

 

His explanations are hallow and, unfortunately for him, more people will remember the bat flip than will read the "explanation." So he's helped to tarnish his own image in the eyes of many. Then again, I never bought into the squeaky image that was being spoon feed to the public (Pujols is no different than any other player in his reactions. I've seen him admire homeruns and flip his bat--although not as arrogantly--in the past).

 

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard.

 

How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does.

 

 

There's no double standard for me. Players do these things all the time (although, I do think he went beyond whatever little dance he claimed Perez pulled on him). I don't think it would have been a story if the retaliation hadn't been so pronounced. How many people even remember the so-called disrespect Perez showed to him last year? Like it or not, many people WILL remember Pujols' stunt

 

 

By "spoon fed" I mean that there seems to be a conscious effort to portray him only as a good guy (like the anti-Bonds) when in reality, he's just like any other player with good and bad traits.

 

 

What "conscious effort" are you talking about?

 

People might remember him throwing the bat. I don't care if they do or not. He threw it. If people want to crucify him for it, then they can knock themselves out. If it weren't that, they'd find other dirt. It's the nature.

 

I'm not sure why you think that the bat-throwing was anymore extreme than anything else that goes on. He threw the bat and ran the bases. Personally, I think it's being blown out of proportion. He's human.....he made a mistake, and he wishes he hadn't.

[K-Town]

People really get this worked up over a bat throwing incident?

 

Sure, it's a bad thing to do, but really, who cares? Aramis admires every homerun, Derrek Lee does a mini Sammy hop with every homerun...admiring homeruns has grown into an everyday occurence, it doesn't seem worth talking about anymore.

 

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet.

 

It was over the top. Even he says so. He probably shouldn't have done it, but at least he's man enough to admit that it was probably a mistake. How often do you see ballplayers do that (admit they're wrong)?

 

I'm not sure that he admitted he was wrong because of some feeling of guilt as much as it was to undo the damage he caused to his image. He certainly wasn't consolatory right away... He's received a lot of negative press in the wake of this incident so I think that's why he admitted it was wrong.

 

 

Of course you believe that. Why wouldn't you?

 

Other players showboat. Do they try to make amends, to protect their image? Not really. That's the problem........ most players don't care about their image.

[Mizzou]

Can we just create a thread called "K-Town's Thread for Arguing" and sticky it?

[rocket]

Carlos Zambrano apologized for showboating after a homerun last year I believe. He compared himself to garbage.

 

ALL SINS FORGIVEN, RIGHT?

[Blueheart05]

I'm not sure why you're defending Pujols here. It's obvious that what he did was premeditated showboating. No matter how much he tries to "justify" it's merits, it is no better than what he accuses Perez of doing.

 

His explanations are hallow and, unfortunately for him, more people will remember the bat flip than will read the "explanation." So he's helped to tarnish his own image in the eyes of many. Then again, I never bought into the squeaky image that was being spoon feed to the public (Pujols is no different than any other player in his reactions. I've seen him admire homeruns and flip his bat--although not as arrogantly--in the past).

 

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard.

 

How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does.

 

 

There's no double standard for me. Players do these things all the time (although, I do think he went beyond whatever little dance he claimed Perez pulled on him). I don't think it would have been a story if the retaliation hadn't been so pronounced. How many people even remember the so-called disrespect Perez showed to him last year? Like it or not, many people WILL remember Pujols' stunt

 

 

By "spoon fed" I mean that there seems to be a conscious effort to portray him only as a good guy (like the anti-Bonds) when in reality, he's just like any other player with good and bad traits.

 

 

What "conscious effort" are you talking about?

 

People might remember him throwing the bat. I don't care if they do or not. He threw it. If people want to crucify him for it, then they can knock themselves out. If it weren't that, they'd find other dirt. It's the nature.

 

I'm not sure why you think that the bat-throwing was anymore extreme than anything else that goes on. He threw the bat and ran the bases. Personally, I think it's being blown out of proportion. He's human.....he made a mistake, and he wishes he hadn't.

 

I do think there is a conscious effort to portray him as a good guy both within his own camp and within the media. I also think that because of it more people are "outraged" when he does something that's preceived to be selfish when it's really no different than what other players do. So he becomes a victim, if you will, of his own success and is held to a higher standard.

 

As far as it being blown out of proportion, I think there were plenty of Cardinals fans that also question his actions...

 

I think your posting today was to show us that his status as good guy had been restored because he admitted he was wrong. Personally, I don't see how this makes him any different than any other player...

[K-Town]

Carlos Zambrano apologized for showboating after a homerun last year I believe. He compared himself to garbage.

 

ALL SINS FORGIVEN, RIGHT?

 

You betcha'.

 

Zambrano used to bother me some. I thought he was a little over the top. Now I pretty much realize that it's just Zambrano being Zambrano. No biggie. I'm not crazy about it, but it doesn't bother me anymore.