Derrek Lee's Error

[snoodmonger]

Sorry if this was discussed in game threads, but how come D Lee got an error when he dropped ARam's throw? I thought you can't assume a double play. Does the scorer have latitude on that?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Sorry if this was discussed in game threads, but how come D Lee got an error when he dropped ARam's throw? I thought you can't assume a double play. Does the scorer have latitude on that?

 

Len said something on the broadcast about how the Stats Inc people didn't give him an error for it because of that reason. That's different than the official scorer though.

[BigbadB]

Regardless of whether it was a double play or not, that was a routine play that totally deserved an error. It would be ridiculous to not give him one.

[snoodmonger]

Forgive my ignorance here--

 

Stats Inc--who are they? Isn't it the offcial scorer's decision that one would be concerned about?

 

EDIT:

 

Regardless of whether it was a double play or not, that was a routine play that totally deserved an error. It would be ridiculous to not give him one.

 

I agree. I was just confused because I've enver seen an error given on the back half of a failed DP.

[Jon]

If it's a judgment call, then the scorer should have given him the error. I've never seen an error called like that on a DP, though, so I'd assume that it isn't a judgment call. Therefore, I don't see how the scorer could have given Lee the error.

[BigbadB]

I could see it being a judgment call in some instances, and this would be one of them. Aramis picked up the grounder at the same time he stepped on 3rd, he then stuck the ball right in Derrek's stomach with a perfect throw. Derrek had a momentary lapse of concentration.

 

If it looks like an error and it quacks like an error..........

[Jon]

I could see it being a judgment call in some instances, and this would be one of them. Aramis picked up the grounder at the same time he stepped on 3rd, he then stuck the ball right in Derrek's stomach with a perfect throw. Derrek had a momentary lapse of concentration.

 

If it looks like an error and it quacks like an error..........

Possibly, but there still needs to be consistency in the ruling. It should be an error based on the scorer's judgment, but if he makes the same drop on what should be a 6-4-3 DP and it doesn't get ruled, then it shouldn't in this case, as well. Just for the sake of consistency. Otherwise that stat loses some of its meaning.

[Monco]

WAlker was not credited with an error this spring but he did drop a popup.With a runner at first he got the infield fly rule.

[neely crenshaw]

the "can't assume a double play" rule has nothing to with this play. that is in the event that someone bobbles a ball but still gets a force or a guy loses the ball trying to make the turn. dlee dropped the ball on a play that would have been an out.

[BigbadB]

I'm perfectly fine with creating a consistency of calling an obvious error an error.

 

On a related topic, Dunn didn't get charged for an error when he fell down in LF, did he? Isn't the rule for outfielders that they don't get charged if they never touch the ball?

[Omar]

You can already see signs of D. Lee declining. yes, im kidding

[BigbadB]

You can already see signs of D. Lee declining. yes, im kidding

 

Nah, he just dropped that ball because he didn't get his contract.

[Monco]

You can already see signs of D. Lee declining. yes, im kidding

 

Nah, he just dropped that ball because he didn't get his contract.

Its distracting him.

[snoodmonger]

the "can't assume a double play" rule has nothing to with this play. that is in the event that someone bobbles a ball but still gets a force or a guy loses the ball trying to make the turn. dlee dropped the ball on a play that would have been an out.

 

But if a SS throws the ball in the dirt on the back half of a DP and the 1B can't pick it, the SS doesn't get an error, right? How is that different than the 1B dropping it?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

the "can't assume a double play" rule has nothing to with this play. that is in the event that someone bobbles a ball but still gets a force or a guy loses the ball trying to make the turn. dlee dropped the ball on a play that would have been an out.

 

But if a SS throws the ball in the dirt on the back half of a DP and the 1B can't pick it, the SS doesn't get an error, right? How is that different than the 1B dropping it?

 

Official scorer's discretion. Had it been an extremely close play, there probably would have been no error because you cannot assume the DP. However, if it's not a close play, it's the same as any other play where a fielder throws to him. If he drops it when, in the scorer's opinion, the out would definitely have been recorded, it is an error.

[Soul]

the "can't assume a double play" rule has nothing to with this play. that is in the event that someone bobbles a ball but still gets a force or a guy loses the ball trying to make the turn. dlee dropped the ball on a play that would have been an out.

 

But if a SS throws the ball in the dirt on the back half of a DP and the 1B can't pick it, the SS doesn't get an error, right? How is that different than the 1B dropping it?

 

Official scorer's discretion. Had it been an extremely close play, there probably would have been no error because you cannot assume the DP. However, if it's not a close play, it's the same as any other play where a fielder throws to him. If he drops it when, in the scorer's opinion, the out would definitely have been recorded, it is an error.

 

OK so then did Stats Inc. change their ruling to come in line with the official scorer? Or is there a disparity?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

OK so then did Stats Inc. change their ruling to come in line with the official scorer? Or is there a disparity?

 

I don't know. As far as I know, the official scorer is the only one who matters, not Stats Inc.

[gus_dog]

I'm perfectly fine with creating a consistency of calling an obvious error an error.

 

On a related topic, Dunn didn't get charged for an error when he fell down in LF, did he? Isn't the rule for outfielders that they don't get charged if they never touch the ball?

 

Perfect example of a bad outfielder, not an error.

[tgk]

MLB official rules:

 

10.14 C

© No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild. NOTE: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball which, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

 

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

 

Didn't see it, but based on the above rule and the descriptions in this thread it looks like a solid call by the scorer.

[Blueheart05]

MLB official rules:

 

10.14 C

© No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild. NOTE: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball which, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

 

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

 

Didn't see it, but based on the above rule and the descriptions in this thread it looks like a solid call by the scorer.

 

Good job, thanks for finding the rule.

[BigbadB]

MLB official rules:

 

10.14 C

© No error shall be charged against any fielder when he makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base he would have reached had the throw not been wild. NOTE: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball which, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

 

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

 

Didn't see it, but based on the above rule and the descriptions in this thread it looks like a solid call by the scorer.

 

Awesome! Thanks.

[tgk]

Happy to be of sevice.