Phil Rogers at it again (Soriano)

[badger1679666666]

MESA, Ariz. -- Alfonso Soriano is not a jerk. He is not a malingerer or the second coming of Dennis Rodman. He's just a stubborn kid with some pride who won't be treated like cattle.

 

He also can hit like crazy and run like he's late for dinner. He would be a dynamic force in a Cubs lineup that is unlikely to get the attention of the St. Louis Cardinals or anyone else.

 

Let's see, Soriano or Jerry Hairston? Soriano or Todd Walker? Soriano or Neifi Perez?

 

This one isn't that complicated, fellas.

 

Soriano has gone to two World Series in seven seasons in the major leagues and never caused problems for managers Joe Torre or Buck Showalter. The only time he ever has balked at a request is when his team wanted him to change positions, and would you want to move when you are an All-Star every year at your position?

 

Soriano has been one four years in a row.

 

No Talent Sports Writing Hack

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

[badger1679666666]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

I was more refering to the advocating of trading a 2.5 million solid player for his 10 million whiny ass.

[Shawon12]

Totally disagree with Rogers. Money should be spend on starting pitching. If none is available, then wait.

 

I believe we have the offense, we need to shore up the infield D.

[LuckyPup]

The more i read about this nats situation the more it sounds as if Soriano isnt the only villain in this thing-Rogers does make some very good points in that article-he's not my favorite writer cough*brucemiles*cough-but he makes some valid points-Soriano would be a huge impact to our lineup-it would also make a strong impact on our bench moving hairston and Perez to the bench full time with mabry/grissom-Walker is going to be traded-i would rather get a perennial allstar like Soriano than a bag of balls like matos-Walker will not go yard 30 times this year or drive in 100-Soriano will-Not saying i think it would be the greatest move in history but it would definitely make us better-

[TheDude]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

[Guest]

If I had time, I'd search to see if I could find any articles where Rogers criticizes ARod for being a selfish player. You know, the kind of guy who is only interested in how many all-star appearances he makes and wouldn't do what is best for the team. The kind of guy that wouldn't switch positions when joining a new team if it already had a player established at his normal position.

 

oops.

[Danny82]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

 

Does it really matter though when you are getting 30+ HRs and 30+ steals from a second baseman?

[K-Town]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Other than refusing to do what his employer (who is paying him $10 million) tells him to do?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

I was more refering to the advocating of trading a 2.5 million solid player for his 10 million whiny ass.

 

Ah! Right on. Soriano just isn't worth it compared to Walker in terms of money, not to mention the talent that we'd have to give up to get him. And then there's the matter of Soriano wanting to go back to the AL when he hit's FA after this season (assuming he isn't put on the DQ list). It's just not a smart move.

 

IMO, Walker is much more of a whiner than Soriano. Teammates and coaches all say Soriano is not a clubhouse cancer or a complainer. He just has this one issue with a position change. He didn't even complain, just said that he wasn't going to move to the OF. Egomaniac and too full of pride? Yes. Whiner? No.

[BigbadB]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

 

Does it really matter though when you are getting 30+ HRs and 30+ steals from a second baseman?

 

So, if Aramis says today "I want to play 2b, are you going to give the position to him?"

 

Could you just imagine watching David Ortiz play 2b base? Who cares. The guy can rake, right?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

 

Does it really matter though when you are getting 30+ HRs and 30+ steals from a second baseman?

 

And a .300ish OBP, yes, yes it does.

[wolf stansson]

And a .300ish OBP, yes, yes it does.

But...but...but...

 

He went to two world series in 7 years! That means something right?

 

 

Never mind he played for the Yankees. They were there because of him. The Marlins made it because of Alex Gonzalez, the White Sox because of Juan Uribe, the Angels because of Adam Kennedy, the Diamondbacks because of Tony Womack, and the Red Sox because of Orlando Cabrera.

[Danny82]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

 

Does it really matter though when you are getting 30+ HRs and 30+ steals from a second baseman?

 

So, if Aramis says today "I want to play 2b, are you going to give the position to him?"

 

Could you just imagine watching David Ortiz play 2b base? Who cares. The guy can rake, right?

Those two obviously aren't second basemen. And if Aramis moved to second, it would create an even bigger hole at 3B...a spot where you need power. I'm just saying, Soriano actually is a second baseman, and even though he plays it poorly, I think it is offset by his offensive production. If he had a .350 OBP to go along with everything else, would people really care about his defense?

 

Listen, I don't want Soriano on the Cubs either. I just don't think his defense that big of an issue though considering his offensive production.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Soriano is only an all-star at 2B because defense has no value to the average voting fan.

 

Soriano is the worst defensive 2B in 50 years. He should have never been allowed to continue to play that position at the big league level, and he should have been moved to the outfield 7 years ago.

 

Does it really matter though when you are getting 30+ HRs and 30+ steals from a second baseman?

 

So, if Aramis says today "I want to play 2b, are you going to give the position to him?"

 

Could you just imagine watching David Ortiz play 2b base? Who cares. The guy can rake, right?

Those two obviously aren't second basemen. And if Aramis moved to second, it would create an even bigger hole at 3B...a spot where you need power. I'm just saying, Soriano actually is a second baseman, and even though he plays it poorly, I think it is offset by his offensive production. If he had a .350 OBP to go along with everything else, would people really care about his defense?

 

Apparently people are still concerned about Todd Walker's defense after he puts up a .350 OBP with good power(albeit not as much power as Soriano), so someone would care I'm sure.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Other than refusing to do what his employer (who is paying him $10 million) tells him to do?

 

It's not that simple. Even the MLB Basic Labor Agreement is unclear on this issue. Personally, I think the team has a stronger case b/c of some of the wording, but the ordered change of position is not covered. You are only required to do what the contract (and the law) require you to under the terms you agreed to.

[BigbadB]

I'm just saying, Soriano actually is a second baseman, and even though he plays it poorly, I think it is offset by his offensive production. If he had a .350 OBP to go along with everything else, would people really care about his defense?

 

By who's admission is Soriano a 2b? Because some team was dumb enough to put him there?

 

Worst 2b defensively in the last 50 years. Think about how many 2b's have played the game.

 

Wasn't he actually a SS at one time? I know he's horrible defensively, but Christian Guzman is even worse when it comes to hitting. Anything to get Guzman out of the line up would be a plus, IMO.

[sonofsamiam]

This would be a mistake of colossal proportions. Not because Soriano is a jerk or not a jerk, but because he's tremendously overrated.

 

His Road OPS last year was .639. Neifi's, for comparison was .677. That's right -- Neifi was .038 better on the road than Soriano last year.

 

So what you've got is a guy who has:

 

- Overvalued offense

- Mediocre-to-bad defense

- Passed his peak

- Costs $10 million

- Allegedly been a problem in other clubhouses

 

Please say no, Jim, please say no....

[Danny82]

Who said he has been a problem in other clubhouses? I've read different.

 

Also, were his road splits also terrible when he was with the Yanks? I am curious.

[K-Town]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Other than refusing to do what his employer (who is paying him $10 million) tells him to do?

 

It's not that simple. Even the MLB Basic Labor Agreement is unclear on this issue. Personally, I think the team has a stronger case b/c of some of the wording, but the ordered change of position is not covered. You are only required to do what the contract (and the law) require you to under the terms you agreed to.

 

Contract schmontract. He's acting like an idiot. They're paying him 10 million bucks. It's not like they're asking him to paint the stadium or sell hot dogs. They're asking him to play baseball at a different position. To me, he's doing something wrong.

[Chocolate Milk]

Didn't Soriano say, before he was traded, that we wouldn't swich positions? Why would Washington trade for him in that senario?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

I agree with him. Soriano hasn't done anything wrong.

 

Other than refusing to do what his employer (who is paying him $10 million) tells him to do?

 

It's not that simple. Even the MLB Basic Labor Agreement is unclear on this issue. Personally, I think the team has a stronger case b/c of some of the wording, but the ordered change of position is not covered. You are only required to do what the contract (and the law) require you to under the terms you agreed to.

 

Contract schmontract. He's acting like an idiot. They're paying him 10 million bucks. It's not like they're asking him to paint the stadium or sell hot dogs. They're asking him to play baseball at a different position. To me, he's doing something wrong.

 

I kind of agree. He's being a dink about this. If anything, just play the OF for one year, hit FA and tell your interested teams that you will only play 2B. There are 10 million reasons just to stfu and play.

 

I think he probably plays LF for the Nats today. We'll find out shortly (first pitch at 1PM Eastern). Not getting that service time, even if it is only for part of the season, will dramatically affect his wallet.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Yup. Soriano will play LF.

 

link

 

Alfonso Soriano has decided to play left field in the Nationals' Spring Training game Wednesday against the St. Louis Cardinals, a team spokesman said.

[sonofsamiam]

Who said he has been a problem in other clubhouses? I've read different.

 

Also, were his road splits also terrible when he was with the Yanks? I am curious.

 

Well, let's just ignore the clubhouse thing altogether. It really doesn't matter, as that is both conjecture and impossible to quantify.

 

Soriano's road splits weren't as bad with the Yankees, but it seems those years were his career peak at this point. His '03-'05 road split (probably a more fair indicator) is .768 (with an OBP of .303). Better, but for $10 million? No way, especially with the bad defense included.

 

Incidentally, Walker's is .766 over the same period, with an OBP of .330. I'll take him for 7.5 million less, thank you.

[Danny82]

Who said he has been a problem in other clubhouses? I've read different.

 

Also, were his road splits also terrible when he was with the Yanks? I am curious.

 

Heck, I'll answer my own question.

 

In 2002, when he had his 39 HR/41 Steal year with the Yanks, he had a 822 OPS at home and a 933 OPS on the road.

 

In 2003, he had a 805 OPS at home and a 917 OPS on the road.

 

While the trend reversed itself with Texas, I still think that too much is being made of his home/road splits. His numbers obviously aren't all a product of the Ballpark at Arlington (or whatever it is called now).