Rogers Praises Guillen, Faults Baker and Riggs

[dalgreen]

I absolutely understand the criticism Baker gets for the abuse of Prior and Zambrano, especially since I'm one of the critics. However, I don't fully understand throwing Wood in the mix when it comes to the discussion. I've said it lots of times before, but I believe Wood's arm troubles are beyond permanent fix, to which I don't think Baker had anything to do with. I think Wood was brought back too soon after the 1999 surgery, and he got hurt the latter part of 2001, which hurt our division and wild card chances. I think he missed four starts in August of 2001. I think his misuse in high school, the minors and at the major league level, and add that to his poor mechanics and that's why he seems to be constantly hurt. Prior is a different story, in my opinion.

[treebird]

I absolutely understand the criticism Baker gets for the abuse of Prior and Zambrano, especially since I'm one of the critics. However, I don't fully understand throwing Wood in the mix when it comes to the discussion. I've said it lots of times before, but I believe Wood's arm troubles are beyond permanent fix, to which I don't think Baker had anything to do with. I think Wood was brought back too soon after the 1999 surgery, and he got hurt the latter part of 2001, which hurt our division and wild card chances. I think he missed four starts in August of 2001. I think his misuse in high school, the minors and at the major league level, and add that to his poor mechanics and that's why he seems to be constantly hurt. Prior is a different story, in my opinion.

 

if you have a guy with a checkered past like wood, why would you ride him so hard in 2003?

[dalgreen]

I absolutely understand the criticism Baker gets for the abuse of Prior and Zambrano, especially since I'm one of the critics. However, I don't fully understand throwing Wood in the mix when it comes to the discussion. I've said it lots of times before, but I believe Wood's arm troubles are beyond permanent fix, to which I don't think Baker had anything to do with. I think Wood was brought back too soon after the 1999 surgery, and he got hurt the latter part of 2001, which hurt our division and wild card chances. I think he missed four starts in August of 2001. I think his misuse in high school, the minors and at the major league level, and add that to his poor mechanics and that's why he seems to be constantly hurt. Prior is a different story, in my opinion.

 

if you have a guy with a checkered past like wood, why would you ride him so hard in 2003?

 

In my opinion, ridden hard in 2003 or not, he would still have arm problems. I just think the damage had already been done. If Wood was an Astro or Cardinal, would you still believe he could come back and be relatively injury-free or is it the Cub fan in us that makes us believe there's still hope in him? I know if he didn't pitch for the Cubs I'd think he was done.

[fromthestretch]

The only reason Hermanson lost the closing job is because he wasn't healthy. He had a 0.00 ERA for nearly half the season! He was unhittable. So don't throw those pen stats out for Hermanson because last year he was great. Guillen went with the hot hand out of the pen and handed the closer spot to Jenks as a result. Let's also remember that Wood has been abused, but it's not all Dusty's fault. Wood knows he has had bad mechanics when his arm blew out the first time. But he never changed. Yes Dusty overextends his pitchers, and although I can't blame him for it in 2003, Dusty doesn't deserve all the flak. Wood would throw 100 pitches in five innings so he couldn't blow his pen everytime Wood would have to leave before they stop serving beer.

 

Um, Hermanson's relief stats were in response to a claim that prior to last season, he had a decent track record as a reliever. Obviously, he didn't. He may have been very good last year, but no one in their right mind could have expected him to perform that well, considering his career numbers.

 

I really don't blame Guillen for it. He had a very average pitcher in his 30s (one who no one was probably counting on to be a fixture on the pitching staff for years to come) who was pitching much better than anyone could have hoped. Like you said, he played the hot hand, and considering the depth they had in the bullpen, I don't blame him. If Hermanson gets hurt, despite how well he was pitching, the White Sox had enough depth to cover for losing him. Combine that with the fact that Hermanson is most likely not the future of that bullpen, then it only makes sense that if you have to use someone a little more than you like to get out of a few jams, Hermanson is that person. You get the outs you need, and you do it without negatively impacting your young arms.

[fromthestretch]

I absolutely understand the criticism Baker gets for the abuse of Prior and Zambrano, especially since I'm one of the critics. However, I don't fully understand throwing Wood in the mix when it comes to the discussion. I've said it lots of times before, but I believe Wood's arm troubles are beyond permanent fix, to which I don't think Baker had anything to do with. I think Wood was brought back too soon after the 1999 surgery, and he got hurt the latter part of 2001, which hurt our division and wild card chances. I think he missed four starts in August of 2001. I think his misuse in high school, the minors and at the major league level, and add that to his poor mechanics and that's why he seems to be constantly hurt. Prior is a different story, in my opinion.

 

if you have a guy with a checkered past like wood, why would you ride him so hard in 2003?

 

In my opinion, ridden hard in 2003 or not, he would still have arm problems. I just think the damage had already been done. If Wood was an Astro or Cardinal, would you still believe he could come back and be relatively injury-free or is it the Cub fan in us that makes us believe there's still hope in him? I know if he didn't pitch for the Cubs I'd think he was done.

 

If he didn't pitch for the Cubs, and the team he was with got fed up with his injuries and got rid of him, he'd probably follow along in the footsteps of Dempster and Williamson as a pitcher with arm problems that the Cubs picked up off the scrap heap and offered a one-year deal plus team option for a second year.

[UK1679666180]

There's no set pitch count to determine when a pitcher will or will not put added stress on his arm b/c he's fatigue. It's stupid to go looking for one magic number. Maddux at 110 pitches should've been out about 1-2 innings ago, Zambrano at 110, likely has one quick inning left before a cautious manager would take him out. It goes by a game to game basis, I've seen the same pitcher on empty after 80 pitches after lasting to 115 in his previous start, all depends on his body for that start.

 

But, when your greatest strength is young power pitchers (one will poor mechanics) you have to protect that asset without jeopardizing the outcome of the game.

 

120 pitches isn't set in stone, but it is a nice number to go by as far as where and when to pull a pitcher.

 

If a pitcher can't go 6IP without throwing over 120 pitches, the problem isn't the manager pulling a pitcher too early, it's the pitcher and his inability to throw a quick game. There's no reason for a pitcher to have a productive outing and he has to be over 125 pitches, even with the most patient teams.