What's with Wuertz?

[rsmoler]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

[frostwyrm]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

 

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Novoa hasn't looked bad, but he hasn't dominated either. Wuertz is killing me. His slider looks good, but his control on the fastball is horrible. Let's hope he gets that figured out soon.

 

Williams has looked like crap so far in ST too.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

 

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

 

Really?

 

Eyre's 4.0 IP, 1H, 0 ER, 6 K, 0 BB looks pretty nice. He's been pretty filthy when I've seen him pitch.

 

Howry didn't look to good that first time out, but he has seemingly improved.

 

Howry: 4.0 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3 K, 0 BB is pretty solid

 

I haven't seen howry pitch since that first outing (his control sucked), so you may be right. Eyre's been nasty though.

Edited March 14, 2006 by Meat&PotatoesMan

[BigbadB]

Aren't the relievers about the last guys to get in game shape?

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Aren't the relievers about the last guys to get in game shape?

 

Alot of the guys in the WBC aren't in game shape, I know that. Guys like Nathan are throwing about 4-5 mph less than during the season.

[frostwyrm]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

 

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

 

Really?

 

Eyre's 4.0 IP, 1H, 0 ER, 6 K, 0 BB looks pretty nice. He's been pretty filthy when I've seen him pitch.

 

Howry didn't look to good that first time out, but he has seemingly improved.

 

Howry: 4.0 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3 K, 0 BB is pretty solid

 

I haven't seen howry pitch since that first outing (his control sucked), so you may be right. Eyre's been nasty though.

 

I was looking at the bigger picture of their careers and ages. It'll take more than 4 good innings to change my opinion of those guys.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

 

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

 

Really?

 

Eyre's 4.0 IP, 1H, 0 ER, 6 K, 0 BB looks pretty nice. He's been pretty filthy when I've seen him pitch.

 

Howry didn't look to good that first time out, but he has seemingly improved.

 

Howry: 4.0 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3 K, 0 BB is pretty solid

 

I haven't seen howry pitch since that first outing (his control sucked), so you may be right. Eyre's been nasty though.

 

I was looking at the bigger picture of their careers and ages. It'll take more than 4 good innings to change my opinion of those guys.

 

True. True. I've just been impressed with Eyre so far. His ADHD treatment is enough to convince me that last season wasn't a fluke. I think Howry is overrated, but I don't expect a meltdown. We definitely overpaid for those two, but I'm more confident in them than I am in Novoa and Weurtz.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry, Eyre, Dempster, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, Rusch/Williams/Hill/Guzman/etc. This really shouldn't be that hard. There's a distinct possibility Wuertz could be our best reliever this year, bar none.

[wastra]

Wuertz has the clear-cut inside track of all our homegrown guys to make the roster just because for most of last year, he was the ONLY righty setup man we could rely on at all. That's big when talking about spots up for grabs...muich bigger than how he fares in ST, IMO.

 

Contrary to popular belief, ESPECIALLY with this club, rarely do multiple guys actually win spots in ST. IMHO, the only person who CAN this year is Marquis Grissom among position players.

 

13 position players:

Lee

Ramirez

Barrett

Cedeno

Walker

Hairston

Perez

Mabry

Murton

Pierre

Jones

Blanco

Grissom? (5th outfielder/UT.)

 

12 Pitchers:

 

Zambrano

Rusch

Maddux

Prior*

Wood*

 

Williamson

Howry

Eyre

Ohman (close to a lock, given we don't have a ton of other lefties for him to compete with)

Dempster

Wuertz/Novoa (Novoa should be his only competition right now...Wlly, despite his electric fastball, has never been consistant enough to bump either. BOTH if we carry 12 pitchers, which I think likely.)

 

(assuming Prior/Woody are DL'd):

*Hill

*Williams

both in rotation

 

 

Really, IMO- the only question marks are Wuertz, Novoa, Hill, and Williams with Grissom or a Greenburg type on the position side.

[Laura]

For what it's worth, Hendry was in the booth for a few minutes during the game today. He said he wasn't worried about Wuertz given his performance last year. Hendry also said that he was meeting with Dusty & the coaching staff after the game today to pare down the roster again.

[NorthsideAvenger]

Howry, Eyre, Dempster, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, Rusch/Williams/Hill/Guzman/etc. This really shouldn't be that hard. There's a distinct possibility Wuertz could be our best reliever this year, bar none.

 

I disagreed. I personally believe that "The Dump Truck" as closer will be the Cubs best reliever, but with Wuertz the next best....

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Howry, Eyre, Dempster, Williamson, Ohman, Wuertz, Rusch/Williams/Hill/Guzman/etc. This really shouldn't be that hard. There's a distinct possibility Wuertz could be our best reliever this year, bar none.

 

I disagreed. I personally believe that "The Dump Truck" as closer will be the Cubs best reliever, but with Wuertz the next best....

 

Maybe. I wasn't predicting that Wuertz would be, but rather pointing out that his performance, stuff, peripherals, etc. point to him being able to have a stellar year.

[barryfoote]

I think it's still too early in Spring Training to read too much into his struggles. If it gets to the end of Spring Training and he is still struggling then I would start to be concerned.

[Balsa]

I think the only people that have to worry about pitching themselves off the roster are Koronka and Welleymeyer.

[nick23]

Is Mike Wuertz pitching his way off the opening day roster. I figure that the Cubs are going to bring 11 pitchers with them north in April. I would think these 8 are locks:

 

Zambrano

Maddux

Williams

Rusch

Dempster

Howry

Eyre

Williamson

 

If Prior is healthy he's a lock too and Ohman looks like he's pitched his way onto the roster again. I thought Wuertz was a shoe in too, but he's been horrible. Wellemeyer has been bad too and Novoa hasn't even pitched. Any thoughts on what this might mean for that last spot? Might the Cubs only take 10 pitchers north? Thank goodness Hendry signed Howry and Eyre because if he had relied on the kids, the bullpen would look very shakey right now.

 

Howry and Eyre are shaky too.

 

Really?

 

Eyre's 4.0 IP, 1H, 0 ER, 6 K, 0 BB looks pretty nice. He's been pretty filthy when I've seen him pitch.

 

Howry didn't look to good that first time out, but he has seemingly improved.

 

Howry: 4.0 IP, 2H, 0 ER, 3 K, 0 BB is pretty solid

 

I haven't seen howry pitch since that first outing (his control sucked), so you may be right. Eyre's been nasty though.

 

I was looking at the bigger picture of their careers and ages. It'll take more than 4 good innings to change my opinion of those guys.

 

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

[goonys evil twin]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

[nick23]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

 

I agree somewhat if you're speaking universally about middle relievers. But there's nothing about those two guy's numbers form the past two seasons that says shaky. Plus on this team Howry, and Eyre will be used more as set up men rather than middle relief.

[goonys evil twin]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

 

I agree somewhat if you're speaking universally about middle relievers. But there's nothing about those two guy's numbers form the past two seasons that says shaky. Plus on this team Howry, and Eyre will be used more as set up men rather than middle relief.

 

It doesn't matter how they are used, they are middle relievers. Also, the past two seasons are not the only thing you go on. If you look at middle relievers two best back to back seasons, most will look pretty good. The point is 2 good years might be all you can get out of them. Maybe you can get 3. Maybe you can get 2 good, 1 bad, and 2 more good. However it works out, they're shaky pitchers. That's why they are in the roles they are in.

[nick23]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

 

I agree somewhat if you're speaking universally about middle relievers. But there's nothing about those two guy's numbers form the past two seasons that says shaky. Plus on this team Howry, and Eyre will be used more as set up men rather than middle relief.

 

It doesn't matter how they are used, they are middle relievers. Also, the past two seasons are not the only thing you go on. If you look at middle relievers two best back to back seasons, most will look pretty good. The point is 2 good years might be all you can get out of them. Maybe you can get 3. Maybe you can get 2 good, 1 bad, and 2 more good. However it works out, they're shaky pitchers. That's why they are in the roles they are in.

 

I don't think I could disagree more. But just to clarify, are you saying that bullpen guys that never become closers have a shelf life of about 2-4 years?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

 

I agree somewhat if you're speaking universally about middle relievers. But there's nothing about those two guy's numbers form the past two seasons that says shaky. Plus on this team Howry, and Eyre will be used more as set up men rather than middle relief.

 

It doesn't matter how they are used, they are middle relievers. Also, the past two seasons are not the only thing you go on. If you look at middle relievers two best back to back seasons, most will look pretty good. The point is 2 good years might be all you can get out of them. Maybe you can get 3. Maybe you can get 2 good, 1 bad, and 2 more good. However it works out, they're shaky pitchers. That's why they are in the roles they are in.

 

I don't think I could disagree more. But just to clarify, are you saying that bullpen guys that never become closers have a shelf life of about 2-4 years?

 

No, he's saying that they aren't consistent by any measure. Middle relievers are such because they aren't good enough to start, then aren't good enough to close. Add in the short season of IP they get each year, and their performance is bound to vary wildly. That's why you don't know what you'll get with Howry and Eyre(and Wuertz, Novoa, Williamson), and it's especially why it was a bad decision to give each a 3 year deal.

[goonys evil twin]

I don't think I could disagree more. But just to clarify, are you saying that bullpen guys that never become closers have a shelf life of about 2-4 years?

 

I'm not putting a time frame on it. But middle relievers, or all non-elite relievers (including some guys who get closing jobs for one reason or another) do have short shelf lives, and they are inconsistent.

[BigbadB]

it's especially why it was a bad decision to give each a 3 year deal.

 

Who was more lights out than Mike Remlinger in 2001 (2.76 ERA) and 2002 (1.99 ERA)?

 

Cubs gave him a 3 year deal for top dollar reliever money and he wasn't anymore effective than Jeff Fassero was as a reliever with the Cubs.

 

Eyre and Howry haven't "always" been awesome relievers. They have their moments where they are Remlinger bad. I hope they are good for the next 3 years, but I wouldn't bank on it. There really aren't that many relievers that are good year in and year out. I hope they are lights out and they prove me wrong, but that was a bad gamble, IMO.

 

I agree the Cubs needed to get a couple of arms for the pen. However, 3 year deals was not my idea of how to go about getting those bullpen arms.

[rocket]

Dang, I was just about to drop in a Remlinger reference, and I was all prepared to look up his stats.

 

Good job BigBadB.

[nick23]

What about the 236 innings they've pitched over the last 2 years? Those two guys are far from shaky.

 

Middle relievers, by their very nature, are shaky.

 

I agree somewhat if you're speaking universally about middle relievers. But there's nothing about those two guy's numbers form the past two seasons that says shaky. Plus on this team Howry, and Eyre will be used more as set up men rather than middle relief.

 

It doesn't matter how they are used, they are middle relievers. Also, the past two seasons are not the only thing you go on. If you look at middle relievers two best back to back seasons, most will look pretty good. The point is 2 good years might be all you can get out of them. Maybe you can get 3. Maybe you can get 2 good, 1 bad, and 2 more good. However it works out, they're shaky pitchers. That's why they are in the roles they are in.

 

I don't think I could disagree more. But just to clarify, are you saying that bullpen guys that never become closers have a shelf life of about 2-4 years?

 

No, he's saying that they aren't consistent by any measure. Middle relievers are such because they aren't good enough to start, then aren't good enough to close. Add in the short season of IP they get each year, and their performance is bound to vary wildly. That's why you don't know what you'll get with Howry and Eyre(and Wuertz, Novoa, Williamson), and it's especially why it was a bad decision to give each a 3 year deal.

You don't know what you're going to get from Wuertz and Novoa because they haven't pitched enough. I think you have a pretty good idea what your going to get from Howry and Eyre though. I don't see how you can just disregard their two prior seasons and say theese two aren't good enough to start or close, so they can't be that good. Sometimes players get typecast into certain roles. If Bobby Howry had been closing for the Indians last year, he would have been a top 10 AL closer.