Prior delayed again

[Soul]

....but the real point is, Prior developed shoulder soreness after throwing with a towel for a couple weeks. That has to be a massive concern. What will happen when he puts real pressure on that shoulder?

[Monco]

Now the question is can he completely tear it (level 3) unless he gets the proper rest and is taken along slowly? Also he is now more vunerable to tearing the fibers in the future right? I think I read in my research it is a 2 month recovery from a level 3.

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine?

[UK1679666180]

Now the question is can he completely tear it (level 3) unless he gets the proper rest and is taken along slowly? Also he is now more vunerable to tearing the fibers in the future right? I think I read in my research it is a 2 month recovery from a level 3.

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine?

 

I believe he'll be throwing in 7-10 days, that can range from throwing 5 10 feet on up.

 

But, he won't be fine. He still has a long ways to go before he's ready to face opposing hitters ate the level expected from him.

[Blueheart05]

New info fromCubs.com

 

"The symptoms have significantly improved since Tuesday," Cubs athletic trainer Mark O'Neal said Sunday. "Obviously, we need to have him symptom-free before he throws."

 

 

"[The subscapularis] is the one rotator cuff muscle that facilitates internal rotation," O'Neal said. "He doesn't have any discomfort with internal rotation in his side or semi away from his chest. When he gets up in his throwing plane, he can feel a pinch there and some internal discomfort. When it's not working properly, it basically refers some irritation to the back of his shoulder. That's why when he came off the mound the other day -- he complained of posterior cuff irritation.

[badger1679666666]

I don't trust anything the Cubs, Dusty, or Mark O'neal says.

[Soul]

Now the question is can he completely tear it (level 3) unless he gets the proper rest and is taken along slowly? Also he is now more vunerable to tearing the fibers in the future right? I think I read in my research it is a 2 month recovery from a level 3.

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine?

 

I believe he'll be throwing in 7-10 days, that can range from throwing 5 10 feet on up.

 

But, he won't be fine. He still has a long ways to go before he's ready to face opposing hitters ate the level expected from him.

 

I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem.

 

If someone can show how this is a one-time incident only, I would gladly re-assess. But as of now, I see nothing that says this won't continue to come back.

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

New info fromCubs.com

 

"The symptoms have significantly improved since Tuesday," Cubs athletic trainer Mark O'Neal said Sunday. "Obviously, we need to have him symptom-free before he throws."

 

 

"[The subscapularis] is the one rotator cuff muscle that facilitates internal rotation," O'Neal said. "He doesn't have any discomfort with internal rotation in his side or semi away from his chest. When he gets up in his throwing plane, he can feel a pinch there and some internal discomfort. When it's not working properly, it basically refers some irritation to the back of his shoulder. That's why when he came off the mound the other day -- he complained of posterior cuff irritation.

 

I love you, bearer of good news.

[Blueheart05]

Now the question is can he completely tear it (level 3) unless he gets the proper rest and is taken along slowly? Also he is now more vunerable to tearing the fibers in the future right? I think I read in my research it is a 2 month recovery from a level 3.

Does anybody really believe in 7-10 days he'll be back throwing and everything will be fine?

 

I believe he'll be throwing in 7-10 days, that can range from throwing 5 10 feet on up.

 

But, he won't be fine. He still has a long ways to go before he's ready to face opposing hitters ate the level expected from him.

 

I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem.

 

If someone can show how this is a one-time incident only, I would gladly re-assess. But as of now, I see nothing that says this won't continue to come back.

 

Not true. I posted in the ESPN Cubs thread that the team will use ultrasound, shock therapy, and anti-inflammatory drugs in conjunction with rest to treat the problem.

[UK1679666180]

I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem.

 

Nothing positive can come from an injury to the shoulder, you just have to hope it's nathing major at this stage.

 

It appears to be "minor", not sure how any injury to the shoulder is really minor though.

[CubinNY]

I'm still not seeing anything positive. There's absolutely no assurance this won't continue to come back. It started after mild throwing with a towel and a couple simu-games. That's not very encouraging. Being objective about it, I would say this will likely haunt him the entire season. They aren't even really treating it at all. Instead, they are simply resting it. Prior already had months of rest. 7-10 days more isn't likely to magically cure this problem.

 

Nothing positive can come from an injury to the shoulder, you just have to hope it's nathing major at this stage.

 

It appears to be "minor", not sure how any injury to the shoulder is really minor though.

 

I wasn't counting on Wood for anything this year. Now I'm not counting on Prior for much ether. It helps to lower my expectations.

 

Lowered expectations is a Cub fan's best friend.

[srbin84]

 

Not true. I posted in the ESPN Cubs thread that the team will use ultrasound, shock therapy, and anti-inflammatory drugs in conjunction with rest to treat the problem.

 

About freaking time. This is a policy I would like to see the Cubs adopt for almost all pitcher injuries but especially with Prior.

[Laura]

 

But, General Manager Jim Hendry said, "It's good news because while there was something that was causing discomfort and he can't throw for 7 to 10 days, there's nothing to worry about, no ligament damage or torn labrum."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/sports/baseball/19chass.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

I hate these quotes. It's like Hendry thinks his job is to cheer us up.

 

His job is to take care of contingencies like this and hire people to prevent them from occuring, not to lead us in a kumbaya for health.

[Soul]

 

Not true. I posted in the ESPN Cubs thread that the team will use ultrasound, shock therapy, and anti-inflammatory drugs in conjunction with rest to treat the problem.

 

About freaking time. This is a policy I would like to see the Cubs adopt for almost all pitcher injuries but especially with Prior.

 

While they're at it, they should turn some of that shock therapy on Dusty's freaking head.

 

Glad to hear they are trying something. That IS positive.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

Will Carroll on BP today...

 

The Cubs may think I’m psychic, but if I could predict injuries, the THRs would be more accurate than they currently are. What I do is listen to the right sources and pass that info along. That said, the Cubs aren’t lying when they say that Mark Prior hadn’t reported pain and that this is a new injury. Prior hadn’t reported pain; he had reported continued soreness and tightness, part of the reason he was being treated gingerly. When the subscapularis muscle finally gave way, it was new. Prior has a grade two tear of the muscle, one of the four muscles of the rotator cuff and the one that's most involved in internal rotation. After seven to ten days of rest, Prior will start in on an aggressive rotator cuff and shoulder-strengthening program, then get back into his throwing program. He’ll likely start the season on the DL, though the Cubs don’t need a fifth starter until later in April. Prior’s mechanics likely kept him together this long, but overuse is both cumulative and insidious. The only real comp for this injury is Jose Contreras, who missed much of the season in 2003 with a similar--but not identical--problem. It wouldn’t surprise me if Prior needs surgery in the medium-term to clear some of the scar tissue that has built up in the muscle.

 

The article can be found here.

 

edit - He also includes this link to help explain Prior's injury.

[Jimy is a misspell]

Thus, chronic wear and tear or a fall or collision can cause injury to the rotator cuff. It is not uncommon for a patient to have intermittent shoulder pain for several years which is not completely relieved by rest and anti-inflammatory medication. Symptoms may include pain in the front, side, back or deep inside the shoulder especially with overhead movements. Putting on a bra may be painful.

 

That could be problematic. ;)

[CubinNY]

Will Carroll on BP today...

 

The Cubs may think I’m psychic, but if I could predict injuries, the THRs would be more accurate than they currently are. What I do is listen to the right sources and pass that info along. That said, the Cubs aren’t lying when they say that Mark Prior hadn’t reported pain and that this is a new injury. Prior hadn’t reported pain; he had reported continued soreness and tightness, part of the reason he was being treated gingerly. When the subscapularis muscle finally gave way, it was new. Prior has a grade two tear of the muscle, one of the four muscles of the rotator cuff and the one that's most involved in internal rotation. After seven to ten days of rest, Prior will start in on an aggressive rotator cuff and shoulder-strengthening program, then get back into his throwing program. He’ll likely start the season on the DL, though the Cubs don’t need a fifth starter until later in April. Prior’s mechanics likely kept him together this long, but overuse is both cumulative and insidious. The only real comp for this injury is Jose Contreras, who missed much of the season in 2003 with a similar--but not identical--problem. It wouldn’t surprise me if Prior needs surgery in the medium-term to clear some of the scar tissue that has built up in the muscle.

 

The article can be found here.

 

edit - He also includes this link to help explain Prior's injury.

 

What Carrol wrote is exactly what I expect to happen. Prior will be lucky to make five starts and he will go under the knife at some time this season. Then we will get to hear about injuries and their unpredictable nature from the Cubs front office and field manager. Whoopie!

[YearofDaCubs]

Will Carroll on BP today...

 

The Cubs may think I’m psychic, but if I could predict injuries, the THRs would be more accurate than they currently are. What I do is listen to the right sources and pass that info along. That said, the Cubs aren’t lying when they say that Mark Prior hadn’t reported pain and that this is a new injury. Prior hadn’t reported pain; he had reported continued soreness and tightness, part of the reason he was being treated gingerly. When the subscapularis muscle finally gave way, it was new. Prior has a grade two tear of the muscle, one of the four muscles of the rotator cuff and the one that's most involved in internal rotation. After seven to ten days of rest, Prior will start in on an aggressive rotator cuff and shoulder-strengthening program, then get back into his throwing program. He’ll likely start the season on the DL, though the Cubs don’t need a fifth starter until later in April. Prior’s mechanics likely kept him together this long, but overuse is both cumulative and insidious. The only real comp for this injury is Jose Contreras, who missed much of the season in 2003 with a similar--but not identical--problem. It wouldn’t surprise me if Prior needs surgery in the medium-term to clear some of the scar tissue that has built up in the muscle.

 

The article can be found here.

 

edit - He also includes this link to help explain Prior's injury.

Prior and Wood are damaged goods. We might never see a 2003-like performance from both of them ever again.

[goonys evil twin]

What Carrol wrote is exactly what I expect to happen. Prior will be lucky to make five starts and he will go under the knife at some time this season. Then we will get to hear about injuries and their unpredictable nature from the Cubs front office and field manager. Whoopie!

 

I'm not quite ready to cede to that side of the discussion. That's pretty much worst case scenario territory. If best case is he makes it back by mid-April, then second best is mid-May. Second worst would be he makes it back in-time to pitch significant innings this year, maybe 15-20 starts, but has to go under the knife for cleanup that delays his start to 2007.

[srbin84]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

 

At what do you consider Prior a healthy pitcher? Off the DL? 10 starts? A full season?

[srbin84]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

 

Well, I would certainly do a trade for any of those 4 now and if we could get a pitcher with a little more value, like Felix Hernandez or Mark Buerhle, even better.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

 

At what do you consider Prior a healthy pitcher? Off the DL? 10 starts? A full season?

 

No current injuries.

[srbin84]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

 

At what do you consider Prior a healthy pitcher? Off the DL? 10 starts? A full season?

 

I think if we were to do any of my trade ideas, we need to get him around 5-10 straight starts by June.

[CardsFanInChiTown]

I think the Cubs need to get Prior healthy and pitching while he still has value ASAP, even if it means drugging him up. Once he is pitching well for us, we need to trade him right away for another starting pitcher who doesn't get injured, even if he is less talented. Once Prior is pitching this year, could we get any of the following straight up for him: C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Brandon Webb, Brett Myers?

 

With Prior healthy, we could certainly get more that the likes of that for him.

 

At what do you consider Prior a healthy pitcher? Off the DL? 10 starts? A full season?

 

No current injuries.

 

So just off the DL - I doubt Prior could fetch any of those guys.