Fox Sports grades Cub off-season a D / SI gives them B

[Magnetic Curses]

Sully, in the context of my post I was using execution to mean hitting with RISP. I promise never to do it again. :)

 

you're just lucky you didn't get my "unicorn" lecture. :wink:

[Dr. Cub]

Our starting pitchers ERA has gone from 3.69 (2003), to 3.72 (2004), to 4.19 (2005), and in that same period our OBP's were .323 (2003, .328 (2004), and .324 (2005). So our ability to get on base hasn't changed much, while our starting pitching was horrible last year. It just so happens that last year we failed to compete at all.

 

Don't get me wrong, we're in agreement that the plate discipline of this team is atrocious. I just feel that our pitching is the issue which caused us so much grief last year. The fact that Cubs management cannot grasp the concept of OBP, and how it relates to runs, or how to wisely spend money is a whole different issue.

 

The difference is the lack of walks, and therefore low OBP, and subsequently lower runs scored has been an ongoing problem that relates directly to a poor organizational strategy. The pitching decline was due largely to injury, and could be fixed with very little change. There's also several arms available from within the organization to help with that problem. There aren't many bats in the system that can help this team, and improved health won't do much either. The only reason pitching caused so much more grief last year was because people expected so much more out of that group, and just came to expect lackluster offense.

 

The Cubs need to have both solid pitching and hitting. The pitching is right there and could be great with the current core, while the hitting is still a long way from being among the best in the NL, let alone all of baseball. It seems to me that the best way to improve the team is to improve the area of the team that his most consistently disappointing.

 

I agree with you completely. That's also the reason I didn't mention anything in sulley's first post where he just said walks. It was his second post that he mentioned getting on base that was the issue. Either way in my opinion the pitching hurt us most last year, and yes it was due to injury, so little to no change is needed there. I also agree that improving our offense is the best place to improve the team overall. My last sentence was more a comment to let Sulley know I share in his frustration about the lack of plate discipline in this team, and how it's a disease organization wide.

[Magnetic Curses]

this team lost because it was DEAD last in the league in walks, period.

 

Actually, this team lost primarily because it pitched poorly, but its deficiency in getting on base was a huge problem.

 

you're partially right. although i believe that we pitched well enough to give the team a chance to win if we could have just gotten on base more often.

 

Our starting pitchers ERA has gone from 3.69 (2003), to 3.72 (2004), to 4.19 (2005), and in that same period our OBP's were .323 (2003, .328 (2004), and .324 (2005). So our ability to get on base hasn't changed much, while our starting pitching was horrible last year. It just so happens that last year we failed to compete at all.

 

Don't get me wrong, we're in agreement that the plate discipline of this team is atrocious. I just feel that our pitching is the issue which caused us so much grief last year. The fact that Cubs management cannot grasp the concept of OBP, and how it relates to runs, or how to wisely spend money is a whole different issue.

 

No it's very relevant. If you are gonna argue that the team needs better pitching, you have to point out that they walked too many hitters. 5th in the majors is BAA, but walked the 7th most hitters. For a team that again led the planet in K's from their pitchers, walking hitters is just a bad idea. If guys can't make contact, don't help them out by walking them.

 

I never argued for better pitching. I said that our pitching was what hurt us most last year. It was obviously due to injury. In addition I don't understand how what you said relates to my point. What is relevant? The issue of what hurt us most last year, and the issue of Cubs management failing to see how to improve this teams offense are completely seperate.

 

i would argue that it wasn't the pitching that hurt us most, it was lack of runs scored, despite our high average. the pitching was middle of the pack. not great, not horrible. despite having so many injuries, our pitching still had us in a position going into august to compete for the wc. if our ability to get on base wasn't so terrible, we could have actually done something.

[frostwyrm]

If Eyre and Howry revert to pre-2005 form, which is likely, then the Cubs offseason grade drops to F-.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

IF (big if) Prior is back to 03 form this year, that is the number one thing that could help the Cubs back to playoff contention. We need that big gun ace. Zambrano is a stud, but his numbers aren't/won't be THAT much better than 03. Maddux or Williams are almost as good as Clement was (not quite though). But Williams or Rusch (whoever's #5) is better than Estes.

 

And then there's Wood.

 

So as it's been for the past two spring trainings, so it will be for a third time--our chances yet again ride on the health and contributions we can or cannot expect from Mark Prior and Kerry Wood.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper. Let's hope Prior and Wood finally live up to the hype, and in Wood's case, maybe he can justify at least a little bit that fat $12MM he'll get paid this year. Our return on investment for that contract has been pretty miserable to date.

[goonys evil twin]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper.

 

The decline of the team is due mostly to the pitching, but what is important to remember is that the team wasn't that good back then anyway. And the recent they weren't that good was because hitting held them back. Even with a top pitching staff each year they only accumulated the 4th and 6th highest win totals in the league. All of their success was due to pitching, even as limited as the success was. As unimpressive as that 2003 lineup was, it holds up against the current group. The 2003 OF was much much better than what the OF is right now. And they finished 9th in runs scored, just like the 2005 version, and probably close to what the 2006 version will be.

So basically we're counting on a return to glory for the pitching staff, and even then the team is at the mercy of the competence of the competition, because 88/89 wins is no guarantee for anything.

[mhuber92211]

There was a comment earlier that stated that the Cubs had an opportunity to form a dominant team. I just can't see how this is possible. The market was poor this season and the Cubs did nothing to hamper any future acquisitions. IMO they acted appropiately with their resources. Why spend the cash just because you have it. In this offseason, it was better to wait and spend it wisely then to waste it on overpaying for medicority like quoted in someone's signature.

[goonys evil twin]

There was a comment earlier that stated that the Cubs had an opportunity to form a dominant team. I just can't see how this is possible. The market was poor this season and the Cubs did nothing to hamper any future acquisitions. IMO they acted appropiately with their resources. Why spend the cash just because you have it. In this offseason, it was better to wait and spend it wisely then to waste it on overpaying for medicority like quoted in someone's signature.

 

They chose to overpay mediocrity.

 

The Cubs have been a top 5 payroll team throughout Hendry's tenure. He's had plenty of cash to go out and make a great team, long before this offseason. You have to be able to accurately judge what the market will look like down the road. The Cubs should not be worrying about hampering further acquisitions. They sucked last year, and were in danger of sucking again without major improvements.

 

The time for worrying about 2-3 years down the road was in the late 90's and early 00's. Now is not the time to be focused on the future. This regime should be gone long before any future is realized considering how terribly inept they've proven to be in the present.

[CuseCubFan69]

To quote Gary Ward...

 

"The walk is the easiest and most productive element of team run production."

 

To the Cubs it's the road less taken.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

The Cubs have been a top 5 payroll team throughout Hendry's tenure.

 

That's not accurate. They were 9th in '05, 7th in '04, 11th in '03, and 12th in '02. (I don't recall when Hendry started)

[Banghart]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper. Let's hope Prior and Wood finally live up to the hype, and in Wood's case, maybe he can justify at least a little bit that fat $12MM he'll get paid this year. Our return on investment for that contract has been pretty miserable to date.

Goony already stated it, but I think it bears repeating that the 2003 team wasn't that great. It barely sneaked into the playoffs with 88 wins. It did well when it made it into the playoffs, but that was due more to a crappy Central Division than the Cubs. The team performed better in 04, but the competition improved. And that is why 04 was a failure compared to 03.

 

That is what is so frustrating though about this team. The team has been moving backwards from a point where they were just starting to become a contender. This team used to be able to count on dominant pitching, and we can't do that anymore due to injuries and poor management decisions. Add on top of that an offense that has remained weak during the entire stretch that has yet to be improved, and the outlook is bleak for next season. That doesn't mean that the Cubs have no chance. A returning of the type of pitching in 03 might be enough to carry this team to 90 wins (and even then it took the Cubs an extra game to reach that number), but as the roster stands now we are no where near that number of wins that this team has only accomplished once since 1990.

 

-Banghart

 

PS-As a side note the last time the Cubs scored 800 runs in a season was in 1998. That was good for third in the league.

 

-Banghart

[wastra]

There was a comment earlier that stated that the Cubs had an opportunity to form a dominant team. I just can't see how this is possible. The market was poor this season and the Cubs did nothing to hamper any future acquisitions. IMO they acted appropiately with their resources. Why spend the cash just because you have it. In this offseason, it was better to wait and spend it wisely then to waste it on overpaying for medicority like quoted in someone's signature.

 

They chose to overpay mediocrity.

 

The Cubs have been a top 5 payroll team throughout Hendry's tenure. He's had plenty of cash to go out and make a great team, long before this offseason. You have to be able to accurately judge what the market will look like down the road. The Cubs should not be worrying about hampering further acquisitions. They sucked last year, and were in danger of sucking again without major improvements.

 

The time for worrying about 2-3 years down the road was in the late 90's and early 00's. Now is not the time to be focused on the future. This regime should be gone long before any future is realized considering how terribly inept they've proven to be in the present.

 

I was giving Hendry and co. the benefit of the doubt and saying "wait until we see the final roster." But at this stage, he's simply got to go. he's been a dismal failure as GM of the Cubs and no amount of spin can make it appear otherwise.

[baseball7897]

Off-season grade so far: C-. From a financial standpoint, you can certainly understand the decision not to offer arbitration to Roger Clemens, but the Astros don't have a prayer of returning to the post-season unless he's in the fold. And another two years of Ausmus? Not wise. Preston Wilson is a reasonable late-hour addition, but he's not going to notably improve the listless offensive attack.

 

How can the Astros get a c-? They have done NOTHING this offseason. They Lost Clemens, no replacement for Bagwell and have 2 solid starting pitchers. They gave the cubs a d. Give me a break.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

There was a comment earlier that stated that the Cubs had an opportunity to form a dominant team. I just can't see how this is possible. The market was poor this season and the Cubs did nothing to hamper any future acquisitions. IMO they acted appropiately with their resources. Why spend the cash just because you have it. In this offseason, it was better to wait and spend it wisely then to waste it on overpaying for medicority like quoted in someone's signature.

 

They chose to overpay mediocrity.

 

The Cubs have been a top 5 payroll team throughout Hendry's tenure. He's had plenty of cash to go out and make a great team, long before this offseason. You have to be able to accurately judge what the market will look like down the road. The Cubs should not be worrying about hampering further acquisitions. They sucked last year, and were in danger of sucking again without major improvements.

 

The time for worrying about 2-3 years down the road was in the late 90's and early 00's. Now is not the time to be focused on the future. This regime should be gone long before any future is realized considering how terribly inept they've proven to be in the present.

 

You're preaching to the choir here, my feelings on Hendry are well-known. I just dispute the notion that the offense has been more of the problem with regards to the team's underachieving the last two seasons, than has the starting pitching. On the contrary. You pay Kerry Wood $12MM/season, I think it's reasonable to expect something more than a handful of starts and 50-80 IP for that money. If you were to pin the "blame", such as it is, for the on-the-field underperformance on any one guy, then I'm afraid it's all on Wood. Sure, he didn't get hurt repeatedly on purpose, but that doesn't change the fact that he's the biggest culprit here.

 

BTW, note that if Wood were not on the 2006 Cubs, then as of today, figuring Walker stays and figuring reasonable arby figures for the five eligibles, team payroll would be a mere $81MM for 2006.

[A New Era]

That's not accurate at all. The cubs have done little to improve?? Improve from when? Spring last year or Fall last year. Because we are marginally better EITHER one you compare it to.

[baseball7897]

If Wood can stay healthy he is a damn good starter. Wood showed signs of being a big game pitcher in 03. Only if he can work on his mechanics and stay healthy he should return to the 02 and 03 form.

 

We should start a Fund. Every time someone Says "IF KERRY WOOD STAYS HEALTHY" then that person donates to a fund.

[goonys evil twin]

I just dispute the notion that the offense has been more of the problem with regards to the team's underachieving the last two seasons, than has the starting pitching.

 

Starting pitching was good in 2003 and 2004, and bad in 2005. Offense has been bad every year. The decline from 2003/2004 to 2005 was due to the pitching decline, but the overall lack of much success is mostly due to the offense.

[Backtobanks]

There was a comment earlier that stated that the Cubs had an opportunity to form a dominant team. I just can't see how this is possible. The market was poor this season and the Cubs did nothing to hamper any future acquisitions. IMO they acted appropiately with their resources. Why spend the cash just because you have it. In this offseason, it was better to wait and spend it wisely then to waste it on overpaying for medicority like quoted in someone's signature.

 

I agree. If the Cubs stay close until midseason, they have the money to go out and bring in an expensive free-agent-to-be. Throwing $13-14 million per year at Furcal or $11 million per year at Millwood would have hampered their efforts for midseason and the next few years. Health is still the one wildcard that will determine whether this team wins 75 games or 90 games. Also, I don't think Hendry is done dealing this offseason. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. Personally, I'm very happy that players like Williams, Cedeno, and Murton are on this team and not being packaged to get some over-30 year old player making $15-25 million per year.

[CubfaninCA]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper.

 

The decline of the team is due mostly to the pitching, but what is important to remember is that the team wasn't that good back then anyway. And the recent they weren't that good was because hitting held them back. Even with a top pitching staff each year they only accumulated the 4th and 6th highest win totals in the league. All of their success was due to pitching, even as limited as the success was. As unimpressive as that 2003 lineup was, it holds up against the current group. The 2003 OF was much much better than what the OF is right now. And they finished 9th in runs scored, just like the 2005 version, and probably close to what the 2006 version will be.

So basically we're counting on a return to glory for the pitching staff, and even then the team is at the mercy of the competence of the competition, because 88/89 wins is no guarantee for anything.

 

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Can you ever give this organization any credit?? That club was real good after the additions of Lofton & Ramirez.

[Omar]

Yeah well theres no letter grade low enough to show what I think about Fox... Or Fox Sports to be exact. Joe Buck and Tim McCarver my..... :)

[Banghart]

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Can you ever give this organization any credit?? That club was real good after the additions of Lofton & Ramirez.

The club performed well down the stretch in 2003, and despite the choke job in game 6 played well in the playoffs. But one has to understand that that team won only 88 games that year. The reason the Cubs were in position to be one game from the World Series was because the Astros and Cards both had down years, if you remember the Marlins as the wildcard team had a better record than the Cubs that year. We saw the correction of that in the following year, when the team won more games, albeit only by one, but was eliminated from making the playoffs the last week of the season.

 

The point here is that this team was slightly above average in 2003 because it had amazing pitching and a subpar offense. The team performed better the following year using the same formula, largely. Then the pitching took a huge step back with the same offense in place. This is a team that has moved backwards since become a slightly above average ballclub in 2003.

 

-Banghart

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper.

 

The decline of the team is due mostly to the pitching, but what is important to remember is that the team wasn't that good back then anyway. And the recent they weren't that good was because hitting held them back. Even with a top pitching staff each year they only accumulated the 4th and 6th highest win totals in the league. All of their success was due to pitching, even as limited as the success was. As unimpressive as that 2003 lineup was, it holds up against the current group. The 2003 OF was much much better than what the OF is right now. And they finished 9th in runs scored, just like the 2005 version, and probably close to what the 2006 version will be.

So basically we're counting on a return to glory for the pitching staff, and even then the team is at the mercy of the competence of the competition, because 88/89 wins is no guarantee for anything.

 

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Can you ever give this organization any credit?? That club was real good after the additions of Lofton & Ramirez.

 

When it comes to comparing the quality of your team, there's very little difference between 1 out from the world series and getting swept in the divisional round.

[nick23]

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Can you ever give this organization any credit?? That club was real good after the additions of Lofton & Ramirez.

The club performed well down the stretch in 2003, and despite the choke job in game 6 played well in the playoffs. But one has to understand that that team won only 88 games that year. The reason the Cubs were in position to be one game from the World Series was because the Astros and Cards both had down years, if you remember the Marlins as the wildcard team had a better record than the Cubs that year. We saw the correction of that in the following year, when the team won more games, albeit only by one, but was eliminated from making the playoffs the last week of the season.

 

The point here is that this team was slightly above average in 2003 because it had amazing pitching and a subpar offense. The team performed better the following year using the same formula, largely. Then the pitching took a huge step back with the same offense in place. This is a team that has moved backwards since become a slightly above average ballclub in 2003.

 

-Banghart

 

But what was their record after adding Ramirez and Lofton? If we would have had those two for the entire year we'd have won more that 88 games. So it's not completely accurate to say that we weren't that good becsause we only won 88 games.

[Guest]

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Being an 88 win team in the regular season = not that good. Only a dozen teams in the divisional era have won their division with an equal or worse winning percentage. In other words, 92.4% of playoff tams since 1969 have been better teams than the 2003 Cubs.

 

EDIT: I forgot to include wildcard teams in there. Including them, only 92.2% of playoff teams have had better records than the Cubs in 2003.

[goonys evil twin]

The decline in the quality of our starting pitching is the biggest reason for the falloff from 03 to 04 to 05. All you need do is go back to 03 and look at the numbers for Prior, Wood, Zambrano and Clement. Makes all the difference in the world.

 

As for the offense, the 03 team stank pretty much, this year's bunch is better balanced and no worse than that year. And the bullpen is certainly deeper.

 

The decline of the team is due mostly to the pitching, but what is important to remember is that the team wasn't that good back then anyway. And the recent they weren't that good was because hitting held them back. Even with a top pitching staff each year they only accumulated the 4th and 6th highest win totals in the league. All of their success was due to pitching, even as limited as the success was. As unimpressive as that 2003 lineup was, it holds up against the current group. The 2003 OF was much much better than what the OF is right now. And they finished 9th in runs scored, just like the 2005 version, and probably close to what the 2006 version will be.

So basically we're counting on a return to glory for the pitching staff, and even then the team is at the mercy of the competence of the competition, because 88/89 wins is no guarantee for anything.

 

So being 1 game away from the World Series = not that good?

Can you ever give this organization any credit?? That club was real good after the additions of Lofton & Ramirez.

 

88 win regular seasons aren't really good. If you want to settle for 88 win seasons, feel free, but don't push that crap off to me and call it really good.

 

When this organization does what it should I will give them credit, thus far they have not.