Prior voids his contract/ eligible for arbitration

[Banedon]

187. murder, death, kill.

 

So sad that I know that's from Demolition Man...*sigh*

[jtownie]

I'd go so far as to say Prior is still an incredible bargain at 4.5-5M. Considering what FA are getting this year to say that Prior isn't worth 2-2.5M more than he is currently making seems a bit outrageous.

 

Ryan Franklin was just signed for 2.6M plus incentives. That was Prior's projected salary this year. Are they of equal value?

 

Prior and Zambrano are going to be relative bargains throughout their arbitration years. The only way players become non bargains in aribtration years is when they bust from the outset or take total nosedives like Patterson. If either Prior or Zambrano were free agents this offseason, they would have made a killing.

 

i completely agree. i was just addressing what I implied from others in this discussion that Prior isn't worth 5M. Perhaps I just misunderstood what was being said. But yes arbitration years are definitely some of the cheapest years for top players, exceptions being Pujols and santana.

 

At the same time, I like the approach of giving him a one-year contract. It could be signed with the understanding that if all goes normal and Prior makes all of his scheduled starts that they will negogiate an extension next fall. I think it's smart to see how Prior does this well because it's fairly easy to assume he will make all of his starts because a freakish injury isn't likely but at the same time the club wants to make sure there aren't any long-term health effects associated to him getting plunked in the elbow.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

I understand the contract part of it. I just don't agree he's worth it.

 

We can hash this all you want. But in the end, Prior still needs to prove himself as a healthy pitcher. Until then as far as I'm concerned the Cubs are paying 2 pitchers to spend a good portion of the season on the DL.

Give me 2 of the those 3/27M pitchers that stay healthy and you can keep Prior in the hopes that he might stay healthy.

 

So instead of paying Prior $5m, which he has earned, deserves and is likely to get, you'd rather let him walk, and then go out and trade for Kris Benson and Matt Morris.

 

Please go apply to the Cardinals so they can be run into the ground.

 

This overzealous disdain for Prior and his injuries is utterly preposterous.

 

Over the past 3 season, when he was 22, 23 and 24, Prior has amassed a record of 35-17, with 497 IP, 572 K, 157 BB, 438 H, 1.19 WHIP, 3.23 ERA.

 

Compare that to some recent big money signees:

AJ Burnett

19-20, 352 IP, 332 K, 135 BB, 304 H, 1.25 WHIP, 3.61 ERA

 

Josh Becket

33-25, 476 IP, 464 K, 168 BB, 421 H, 1.23 WHIP, 3.42 ERA

 

Jon Garland

42-34, 630 IP, 336 K, 197 BB, 623 H, 1.30 WHIP, 4.29 ERA

 

Kevin Millwood

32-29, 555 IP, 440 K, 171 BB, 547 H, 1.29 WHIP, 3.83 ERA

 

 

That's 4 players, all but Becket making significantly more money than Prior is making, or will make after arbitration, and Josh will probably make more this season. Not one of them has outperformed Prior over the past 3 years. Garland has more IP, but most of those innings were poorly pitched.

 

And you're sitting here complaining that Prior exercised a right he had in his contract to void his $2.5 million deal for this season and go into arbitration where he'll make between $4-5 million.

 

Are you kidding me? Do you realize what else is out there?

 

This short-sighted approach to looking at the game of baseball gives you absolutely no perspective on the realities of the game.

 

Now I'm overzealous and utterly proposterous over Prior and his injuries? Wow, big words. Who's being overzealous? I'm not the one who wasted all that time looking up stats of pitchers.

If you would stop, and go read my first post. It said at the bottom SOME RANTING INVOLVED or close to that. But instead you take a I'm right your wrong approach.

And when did I say anything about letting him walk? I DIDN"T!!!!

I said trade him.

Further more now I have no realities of the game? If you're asking do I spend my days and nights looking up stats, contracts, and trades. HELL no, and refuse to do so.

I love to watch the game, I know the rules of the game. Just because I don't get fueled by it like you and others do. Doesn't give you the right to say I have no realities of the game?

I've got a better idea. Since you are going to ignore my posts anyway. Why not just start now and not reply to this one.

When I joined this board it was to talk baseball and stay intouch with what the Cubs were doing. The only reality I didn't have was that I would have to eat, sleep and breath baseball in order to post an idea, opinion or rant and not be slammed for it. Those that like to look up stats and everything else is fine by me. But I'm not going to just to prove a point or opinion. :roll:

[goonys evil twin]

Now I'm overzealous and utterly proposterous over Prior and his injuries? Wow, big words. Who's being overzealous? I'm not the one who wasted all that time looking up stats of pitchers.

 

It took about 3 minutes, and was necessary to refute your claim that Prior doesn't deserve a raise.

 

If you would stop, and go read my first post. It said at the bottom SOME RANTING INVOLVED or close to that. But instead you take a I'm right your wrong approach.

 

So because you put that in there I'm not supposed to reply if I find your claims that Prior doesn't deserve a raise preposterous?

 

I love to watch the game, I know the rules of the game. Just because I don't get fueled by it like you and others do. Doesn't give you the right to say I have no realities of the game?

I've got a better idea. Since you are going to ignore my posts anyway. Why not just start now and not reply to this one.

 

What does it mean to have no realities of the game? I said the shortsighted approach to looking at the game (viewing Prior's injury and saying he doesn't deserve a raise, ignoring that in a 3-year window he compares with some of the more highly compensated players at his position) gives you absolutely no perspective on the realities of the game. I didn't say you have no realities, whatever that would mean anyway. I'm saying, you can't look at Prior, say he was injured and just declare that because of that he doesn't deserve a raise. You have to look at the whole picture. Personally I'd love it if he only made $2.5m next year, leaving that extra $2.5m for other player acquisition. But when you look at the big picture, he was absolutely in the right to void his contract, he earned that right, he deserves to get what he can through arbitration, and he earned that right. Arbitration eligible doesn't mean he made all his starts. If you want to argue that injury time should take away from arbitration eligibility, and therefore players like Prior shouldn't become arbitration eligible until they put in three healthy seasons, go right ahead. You won't get far against the MLBPA, but go right ahead.

 

 

When I joined this board it was to talk baseball and stay intouch with what the Cubs were doing. The only reality I didn't have was that I would have to eat, sleep and breath baseball in order to post an idea, opinion or rant and not be slammed for it. Those that like to look up stats and everything else is fine by me. But I'm not going to just to prove a point or opinion. :roll:

 

Excuse me for basing my opinion on facts that are readily accessible with minimal research effort. I'm not rolling my eyes at you or your opinion, I'm just telling you why I think you're dead wrong. You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't be upset when somebody with a different opinion lays out the reasons why they think you are wrong.

[Magnetic Curses]

187. murder, death, kill.

 

So sad that I know that's from Demolition Man...*sigh*

 

loser. :P

[Bull]

I would extend Prior, but only for 3 additional years. I love him; he's great; he's still a pitcher.

 

I'd try and sign him for around 3/27-30 with a 4th year team option around $14-15m (which could easily be a bargain for the team by then) and maybe $1-2m buyout.

 

Too much. He's arb eligible, not a Free Agent. Ozwalt Got 2 years/16.9 last year. 3/25 is top dollar for arb. eligible pitchers and I think Prior would ask for and get 5 in arb.

 

3/25 is generous at this stage in his carreer.

 

He could get 5 easily this year, 8-10 by next year, and 10+ the third year of arbitration. You give him a little more now so that he'll put off his first year of free agency.

 

Sounds like you're arguing the agent side and I the team side. I think that given his performance the team will persue him for three near what I outlined, and being unimpressed with that, and knowing his potential, Prior will try to sign a one year deal at around 5.

[CubbieSouthpaw]

Now I'm overzealous and utterly proposterous over Prior and his injuries? Wow, big words. Who's being overzealous? I'm not the one who wasted all that time looking up stats of pitchers.

 

It took about 3 minutes, and was necessary to refute your claim that Prior doesn't deserve a raise.

 

If you would stop, and go read my first post. It said at the bottom SOME RANTING INVOLVED or close to that. But instead you take a I'm right your wrong approach.

 

So because you put that in there I'm not supposed to reply if I find your claims that Prior doesn't deserve a raise preposterous?

 

I love to watch the game, I know the rules of the game. Just because I don't get fueled by it like you and others do. Doesn't give you the right to say I have no realities of the game?

I've got a better idea. Since you are going to ignore my posts anyway. Why not just start now and not reply to this one.

 

What does it mean to have no realities of the game? I said the shortsighted approach to looking at the game (viewing Prior's injury and saying he doesn't deserve a raise, ignoring that in a 3-year window he compares with some of the more highly compensated players at his position) gives you absolutely no perspective on the realities of the game. I didn't say you have no realities, whatever that would mean anyway. I'm saying, you can't look at Prior, say he was injured and just declare that because of that he doesn't deserve a raise. You have to look at the whole picture. Personally I'd love it if he only made $2.5m next year, leaving that extra $2.5m for other player acquisition. But when you look at the big picture, he was absolutely in the right to void his contract, he earned that right, he deserves to get what he can through arbitration, and he earned that right. Arbitration eligible doesn't mean he made all his starts. If you want to argue that injury time should take away from arbitration eligibility, and therefore players like Prior shouldn't become arbitration eligible until they put in three healthy seasons, go right ahead. You won't get far against the MLBPA, but go right ahead.

 

 

When I joined this board it was to talk baseball and stay intouch with what the Cubs were doing. The only reality I didn't have was that I would have to eat, sleep and breath baseball in order to post an idea, opinion or rant and not be slammed for it. Those that like to look up stats and everything else is fine by me. But I'm not going to just to prove a point or opinion. :roll:

 

Excuse me for basing my opinion on facts that are readily accessible with minimal research effort. I'm not rolling my eyes at you or your opinion, I'm just telling you why I think you're dead wrong. You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't be upset when somebody with a different opinion lays out the reasons why they think you are wrong.

 

I didn't know you have to be right or wrong about an opinion.

Maybe you should read your own sig.. I based my OPINION on the facts that I had at the time.

I wasn't rolling eyes at your opinion. I did so because I made a short opinion and you carried it to extremes. I actually agreed with some of your opinion and stated so in a previous post.

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday. From what I remember most people didn't have a problem with Woods contract when it was signed and look what happened with him. Is there anything wrong with knowing how he will handle a complete season?

My feeling was he should have stayed with his current contract and prove he can be durable. And ranting was involved.

I realize most if not all the players go for the money and could care less about the team.

I respect what you say, and have gotten a lot of good info from your postings. But I've also noticed you get a bit overzealous in some of your postings because you and whoever don't agree.

BTW, I have no desire to apply and run the Cardinals down. (No emoticon here)

[goonys evil twin]

Sounds like you're arguing the agent side and I the team side. I think that given his performance the team will persue him for three near what I outlined, and being unimpressed with that, and knowing his potential, Prior will try to sign a one year deal at around 5.

 

No, I'm arguing from the team's point of view. You give yourself the opportunity to avoid his first year of free agency by guaranteeing him more up front. It's give and take. I'd love to offer just 3/15. But he's not going to sign that. He might not even take a 3/27-30, because in that time period he could earn more than 27-30 by going one year at a time. And he might not want to give the team that one year option because in 3 years he might expect to sign a 5 year deal that averages $15m per year.

[fromthestretch]

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday.

 

As mentioned, I think the only thing you can use to question his durability is the injury that caused him to miss time at the beginning of 2004. Considering that it hasn't flared up again, I don't view it as something that will be a recurring problem.

 

The Giles collision and the line drive could have happened to anyone. I can't question his durability for missing time when a baserunner ran into him at full speed and when a line drive hit him squarely on the elbow. To be honest, I think it's a testament to his durability that he was able to come back from the line drive as quickly as he did.

[goonys evil twin]

I didn't know you have to be right or wrong about an opinion.

Maybe you should read your own sig.. I based my OPINION on the facts that I had at the time.

 

Why? Obviously I wouldn't state my opinion if I didn't think I was right. If I thought my opinion was wrong, I'd probably change it.

 

I wasn't rolling eyes at your opinion. I did so because I made a short opinion and you carried it to extremes. I actually agreed with some of your opinion and stated so in a previous post.

 

Personally I think that saying a player shouldn't exercise an option in his contract that he rightfully negotiated and earned is taking an extreme position. And a completely unfair and unrealistic position.

 

 

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday. From what I remember most people didn't have a problem with Woods contract when it was signed and look what happened with him. Is there anything wrong with knowing how he will handle a complete season?

 

I'd love it if the Cubs could get away with only paying him $2.5m, leaving more money for more talent. There's nothing wrong with waiting to see if he'll prove to be more healthy. There is something wrong with expecting a guy not to exercise an option in his contract that he earned.

 

My feeling was he should have stayed with his current contract and prove he can be durable.

 

And my feeling is that is completely unrealistic, and to a certain extent ridiculous. If you had the option to void a deal and renegotiate your current salary in order to get more money, and that option to void was agreed upon when you signed in the first place, would you not take it just because you took more sick days than you expected? Would you really take less money even though you could easily get more, and were earning a whole heck of a lot more than guys who have done a heck of a lot less than you, just because you felt you didn't perform at your absolute best the entire time you worked there?

 

 

He's not holding out for more money. He didn't sign a contract, and then out of nowhere demand more money. He, and the Cubs, signed a contract after the draft that gave him the option to void his deal once he became arbitration eligible. This was done because it was very realistic that he'd be far outperforming his salary by the time 2004 or 2005 came along. The Cubs knew this, that is why they agreed to it. It was part of the deal. It was well within his rights. And when all is said and done, he's still going to be making a lot less than a lot of players who couldn't hold his jock.

[Bull]

Sounds like you're arguing the agent side and I the team side. I think that given his performance the team will persue him for three near what I outlined, and being unimpressed with that, and knowing his potential, Prior will try to sign a one year deal at around 5.

 

No, I'm arguing from the team's point of view. You give yourself the opportunity to avoid his first year of free agency by guaranteeing him more up front. It's give and take. I'd love to offer just 3/15. But he's not going to sign that. He might not even take a 3/27-30, because in that time period he could earn more than 27-30 by going one year at a time. And he might not want to give the team that one year option because in 3 years he might expect to sign a 5 year deal that averages $15m per year.

 

so on some level we almost agree. Its okay, it doesn't hurt to agree. Honest :wink:

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday.

 

As mentioned, I think the only thing you can use to question his durability is the injury that caused him to miss time at the beginning of 2004. Considering that it hasn't flared up again, I don't view it as something that will be a recurring problem.

 

The Giles collision and the line drive could have happened to anyone. I can't question his durability for missing time when a baserunner ran into him at full speed and when a line drive hit him squarely on the elbow. To be honest, I think it's a testament to his durability that he was able to come back from the line drive as quickly as he did.

 

=D>

[Burtonbell]

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday.

 

As mentioned, I think the only thing you can use to question his durability is the injury that caused him to miss time at the beginning of 2004. Considering that it hasn't flared up again, I don't view it as something that will be a recurring problem.

 

The Giles collision and the line drive could have happened to anyone. I can't question his durability for missing time when a baserunner ran into him at full speed and when a line drive hit him squarely on the elbow. To be honest, I think it's a testament to his durability that he was able to come back from the line drive as quickly as he did.

 

If I could fit all of that in my sig, I would. Who is it that has the Prior is not a injury risk in their sig?

[SouthSideRyan]

Question: Has Prior pitched an entire season without going on the DL because of injury(freak or otherwise)? NO, he hasn't. I want to know his durability before his big payday.

 

As mentioned, I think the only thing you can use to question his durability is the injury that caused him to miss time at the beginning of 2004. Considering that it hasn't flared up again, I don't view it as something that will be a recurring problem.

 

The Giles collision and the line drive could have happened to anyone. I can't question his durability for missing time when a baserunner ran into him at full speed and when a line drive hit him squarely on the elbow. To be honest, I think it's a testament to his durability that he was able to come back from the line drive as quickly as he did.

 

If I could fit all of that in my sig, I would. Who is it that has the Prior is not a injury risk in their sig?

 

You rang? I'd say try for 3/25 with Prior with a 14M option. 3/27 seems way too much when you figure Prior tops out at 5M this year and 9M in '07. That's giving Prior 13M in '08 which is quite possible, but the point of signing him to 3 years now is to get a slight discoutn on those years by giving him certainty.